RedOranje wrote:The shirt analogy is probably closer to the truth than the water... but neither is quite accurate.
When a shirt is taken it's stolen... gone from the original place and now solely in the possession of the "thief."
When a computer file is shared a new copy is created. Nothing is stolen or removed from the original possessor's grasp.


Still, paying for whatever DVD, game, or music you want is always the better option. A) it's the morally correct thing to do and (B) It shows the producing company that the product is worth supporting and continuing.

Debatable. Thats why most of the files are copyrighted. Lets say you make a copy of a original movie and share it with your friends, whan the law exactly says that you are not allowed modify or make a copy out of it, it still can qualify as a theft.

But it's not, is it?

You steal a shirt and then that shirt is no longer on the racks to be sold for money. You download a file, the original is still in place to be sold. The company is still losing the income it would get from your personal purchase, but the product itself isn't lost as it would be with stealing a physical item.

This isn't a defense of piracy but the distinction needs to be made between the two.

I'm not debating legal terms (And even then, it's gray as the terms of service normally state that one is not allowed to make copies for the intent of selling or otherwise making a profit off of said copy, while allowing copies for other purposes. Rarely is it spelled out that sharing copies is illegal.) but in more abstract terms.

Also, it is worth noting, that the RIAA has itself bent a few laws and ignored a few rights in it's own pursuit of money and restrictions. Neither side is clean and both need to make concessions to their stands, though I would generally hold the companies and their enforcers in higher contempt going by past transgressions.

lol cant ignore this thread.

my take on it: When u can, support with ur money (shows,movies,games, etc).
Only when there is no legal way or service in ur region that can provide u with the entertainment u seek shud u consider illegal dl. if u dont have the cash pls refrain from dl by illegal means (very difficult, i know it well). Though it took me awhile, i learned to show support (with $$$) to the things i enjoy.

Take it from me, I am a former fansubber of Japanese anime (or specifically Negima).

RedOranje wrote:But it's not, is it?

You steal a shirt and then that shirt is no longer on the racks to be sold for money. You download a file, the original is still in place to be sold. The company is still losing the income it would get from your personal purchase, but the product itself isn't lost as it would be with stealing a physical item.

This isn't a defense of piracy but the distinction needs to be made between the two.

Thieving or not companys depend on the income, if everyone was just making a copy out of original files, what would become of the company? Well they would be shut down obv. Point is actually that there isint any reliable statistic that shows you how many people have downloaded your "file" that is meant for sale, so they cannot tell how much they would benefit if they all would just buy it. Same goes for music, gaming, filming industries, all though gaming is effected by the pirates, but music and movies still get alot of profit.
But now come to think of it, how many people are in world that downloads illegal stuff compared to people who buy it. Fact is that its quite a small precent.

Turok_TTZ wrote:lol cant ignore this thread.

my take on it: When u can, support with ur money (shows,movies,games, etc).
Only when there is no legal way or service in ur region that can provide u with the entertainment u seek shud u consider illegal dl. if u dont have the cash pls refrain from dl by illegal means (very difficult, i know it well). Though it took me awhile, i learned to show support (with $$$) to the things i enjoy.

Take it from me, I am a former fansubber of Japanese anime (or specifically Negima).

Im with you bro. I have been download illegal stuff myself for years, but you know if you really the product, then you should buy it.

poolsupporter wrote:

Shamirr wrote:I see nothing wrong with Sharing Music, movies, tv shows etc... It comes down to everyone having access to the information. I think if you can't afford it then it's cool, Pirate away! The second you can, you need to man up and make your Pirated collection legit. That's what I've done. When I was in HS and Uni I couldn't afford crap, but I still loved movies and Music, So I pirated. Now that I work I've been buying everything I pirated. It's costing me a ton, but now I can pay for what gives me joy...

Oh and the Movie industry doesn't make as much money as you would think from DVD sales (money is made it's just not spread out)so Watch Movies at the Cinema to truly show your support...

^^ That's like saying if you can't afford a shirt, go out and steal it.

RedOranje wrote:The shirt analogy is probably closer to the truth than the water... but neither is quite accurate.
When a shirt is taken it's stolen... gone from the original place and now solely in the possession of the "thief."
When a computer file is shared a new copy is created. Nothing is stolen or removed from the original possessor's grasp.


Still, paying for whatever DVD, game, or music you want is always the better option. A) it's the morally correct thing to do and (B) It shows the producing company that the product is worth supporting and continuing.

I was gonna reply along these same lines... so Lemme just add my +1 to this line of arguement

RedOranje wrote:I'm not debating legal terms (And even then, it's gray as the terms of service normally state that one is not allowed to make copies for the intent of selling or otherwise making a profit off of said copy, while allowing copies for other purposes. Rarely is it spelled out that sharing copies is illegal.) but in more abstract terms.

Also, it is worth noting, that the RIAA has itself bent a few laws and ignored a few rights in it's own pursuit of money and restrictions. Neither side is clean and both need to make concessions to their stands, though I would generally hold the companies and their enforcers in higher contempt going by past transgressions.

This too... +1


It is illegal, morals are determined by you society so whether it is morally wrong or not would be dependant on your societal norms.
I've always rationalised it as follows: If you don't have the cash to pay for intellectuality property, They are never gonna get anything from you anyway. If you have the illegal copy though you are acting as an advertiser for an artist, When it comes to music I have on more than one occasion heard an illegal copy of something from a friend then went out and got the OG for myself to enjoy it. With series and movies the same applies only to a greater extent as even though they are not getting direct cash flow from you they are still advertising to you... Advertisers often pay movies/series to use a specific car, potato chip etc... I think the major problem comes in when you can support a movie/musician/TV Show by legal means however you don't.

Like I said it is a rationalisation, but I'm happy with it.

Final point I'm thankfully I don't live in an oppressive country like the US or China, so access to information is pretty free and our gov. isn't too strict on FREE sharing (if you make a profit that's a whole other story...)

Its ok to pay for music and movies and even games since they are not expensive... But what about software like word for 200, photoshop for 500, and even some that cpst 3000

KMD wrote:Its ok to pay for music and movies and even games since they are not expensive... But what about software like word for 200, photoshop for 500, and even some that cpst 3000

There are affordable solutions for Photoshop available for a 100 bucks. If you want all the functionality use GIMP. This argument of can't afford is bullshit. It just cannot justify piracy.

I thought people like you don't exist anymore but its a good thing.

Still the punishment for that is too cruel, i think it should be largely reduced and Jail is not an option. Because even lil kids download nowadays.

KMD wrote:I thought people like you don't exist anymore but its a good thing.

Still the punishment for that is too cruel, i think it should be largely reduced and Jail is not an option. Because even lil kids download nowadays.

Imagine the people who worked for the goverment and their children get caught downloading illegal stuff, imagine the scandal

KMD wrote:I thought people like you don't exist anymore but its a good thing.

Still the punishment for that is too cruel, i think it should be largely reduced and Jail is not an option. Because even lil kids download nowadays.

Jail is only something in very rare situations. I agree the fines are ridiculous sometimes, but how else can the authorities ensure a person doesn't do it again.

I have a question for everyone here: Do you stream football matches or other sports on a regular basis?

RedOranje wrote:I have a question for everyone here: Do you stream football matches or other sports on a regular basis?

Not on a regular basis. When I was in Canada I bought the necessary channel subscription. Now in the States I have at least three channels showing matches. LFC's E-season has broadcasted friendlies every now and then, as well as some EL games.

But yeah, I have streamed and it's wrong.

Even right now I am at it, but i would rather pay 20-30$ for good quality games

RedOranje wrote:I have a question for everyone here: Do you stream football matches or other sports on a regular basis?

Yes but when I do, it's usually through ESPN3. For the most part, I get most matches on TV(FSC, GolTV, YES Network)