I'm not saying Nacho is bad... he's just not 1st team quality for any of the better teams in Europe.  His biggest issue is lack of athleticism combined with being short.  Not much he can do about it.

Once he has to face Haaland, Mbappe, Kane, etc., he's just naturally going to have problems.  He will do well in a game... but over a string of games?  He'll get exposed.  Like Joselu, it's not his fault either.  He is what he is.  Difference with Joselu is that defensive mistakes are paid cash.  Very unforgiving.

My issue with our defense have been two players: Militao and his lack of maturity + Carvajal just getting old. I also think Mendy is horrible on the attack but a great defender (hence my suggestion of putting him as a CB in this case, even if it's for depth). Rudigger and Alaba (mostly) are great. Now we're just down to Ruddiger.

Tell me that you feel comfortable with Carvajal-Ruddiger-Nacho-Mendy/Fran and no Courtois in CL elimination rounds.

I think RM fans are conflating their love for Nacho on a personal level to his actual ability as a footballer. Like I like the guy himself and most sincerely hope for him to succeed, individually but still....

El Gunner wrote:see the comment above is why i despise Real Madrid fans... absolutely delusionally arrogant

halamadrid2 wrote:I wouldn't have a single problem with Nacho starting for the rest of the season. He is proven and versatile. Never gives you less than 100% and never has performances that are less than 7/10. Just because he isnt a starter does not been he isn't good enough to be.

Nacho is better than the likes of Dias, Saliba, Gabriel, Konate, Upamecano, Min Jae Kim, Kounde, Ake etc. Would easily start for those teams. Just because we because we prefer to start those who are inferior (Alaba, Varane before) does not mean he isn't good enough. When Rudiger and Militao are unavailable Nacho should be the first man in but Carlo prefers Alaba's "leadership" skills but the guy is prone to feck ups more times than I can take.

The spiderman meme comes to mind here

Arquitecto wrote:I think RM fans are conflating their love for Nacho on a personal level to his actual ability as a footballer. Like I like the guy himself and most sincerely hope for him to succeed, individually but still....

I think some of them are conflating versatility with ability. Just because you can plug Nacho anywhere in the back four doesn't make him a great defender. He's a 6/10 on his best day and at his worst, he's getting dragged and turned inside out by any above average winger/striker.

Pedram wrote:Nacho over Saliba and Dias? my man Hala went a bit overboard with that one

Nacho is a consistent player i give him that but as everyone has said he's 34 years old and his limitations are starting to show up, like that completely unnecessary late tackle few months ago that got him suspended for three matches while we had no CB.

We definitely need to go to the market in winter if we want to be competitive in CL this season though i'm not sure if there are any good option available.

There aren't.  Even those willing to sell cannot in mid-season because it would mess up how they end the campaign.  Hence my suggestion to try Mendy as a CB, if for nothing else as depth.  You can always move Camavinga to leftback and we already have Fran.  

Nacho will cost us big unless we dominate in the midfield and minimize chances.  I'm calling it now.

El Gunner wrote:

Myesyats wrote:

El Gunner wrote:see the comment above is why i despise Real Madrid fans... absolutely delusionally arrogant

halamadrid2 wrote:I wouldn't have a single problem with Nacho starting for the rest of the season. He is proven and versatile. Never gives you less than 100% and never has performances that are less than 7/10. Just because he isnt a starter does not been he isn't good enough to be.

Nacho is better than the likes of Dias, Saliba, Gabriel, Konate, Upamecano, Min Jae Kim, Kounde, Ake etc. Would easily start for those teams. Just because we because we prefer to start those who are inferior (Alaba, Varane before) does not mean he isn't good enough. When Rudiger and Militao are unavailable Nacho should be the first man in but Carlo prefers Alaba's "leadership" skills but the guy is prone to feck ups more times than I can take.

The spiderman meme comes to mind here

i'm the most consistent and objectively-aware poster on this platform

I don't believe you are an impartial judge in your own case brother

farfan wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:I think RM fans are conflating their love for Nacho on a personal level to his actual ability as a footballer. Like I like the guy himself and most sincerely hope for him to succeed, individually but still....

I think some of them are conflating versatility with ability. Just because you can plug Nacho anywhere in the back four doesn't make him a great defender. He's a 6/10 on his best day and at his worst, he's getting dragged and turned inside out by any above average winger/striker.

Its like the same case as Rashford, clearly a beautiful human being outside of the pitch but had people like Cbarca for some reason defend him every single week despite scrubbing it up week in week out.

Case with Nacho is obvious. Long time player, RM youth product, likeable, loyal, therefore subjective reason will cause him to be rated above anyone else really.

Also reminds me of Jay fucking Spearing of LFC who always got the "Oh give him time" treatment by locals but always was shit.

Nacho doesn't even have 30 apps for Spain and at 34. This needs to be dropped.

El Gunner wrote:

Pedram wrote:

Myesyats wrote:

I don't believe you are an impartial judge in your own case brother

I don't think we can take anyone who likes Kanye seriously

oh you mean just the greatest, most influential artist of the 21st century?

Oh shit the Sports v Bill thing is on again

Look dont get me wrong in his 24 apps Nacho has been good and consistent but against top opposition he has a tendency to get turned inside out. Ive more intimate knowledge of that for Spain rather than Real Madrid.

Hes a hell of a guy, a leader and has done well to bloom more late in his career but it's a bit of a stretch to go where you are going.

Arquitecto wrote:Oh shit the Sports v Bill thing is on again

He's just mad because I'm not a blind fanboy of Real Madrid like most of its fans.

Sports doesn't support PSG I think it's due to what it has done for Ligue 1 as a whole to which is a lot. As for his RM he's one hell of a cynical one but been around here supporting them for over a decade now. Think it's a refreshing change compared to the lemmings who will go by what Flo will procure in any way. Likely comes from Perez handling of Makalele
But his French bias? Whooooweeeeee

Arquitecto wrote:Sports doesn't support PSG I think it's due to what it has done for Ligue 1 as a whole to which is a lot. As for his RM he's one hell of a cynical one but been around here supporting them for over a decade now. Think it's a refreshing change compared to the lemmings who will go by what Flo will procure in any way.  Likely comes from Perez handling of Makalele
But his French bias? Whooooweeeeee

Truth.  I was hoping the rest of Ligue 1 teams would compete more with PSG, but that's not happening.  But PSG saved the league frankly.  It was headed towards bankruptcy or 3rd rate status.  The money gap was getting larger and larger with the bigger leagues.

I don't dislike Flo.  He's a great president.  But I do not like elitists at all...  and he's the epitome of elitism.  So generally speaking, I don't like his end game, which is protecting the status of the elites even if it hurts competition.

In terms of my allegiance, I'm for football in general first, national teams second, leagues third and then my favorite club teams.