McLewis has well and truly become a brainwashed leftie, no critical thinking or sense of his own hypocrisy... you hate to see it

El Gunner wrote:McLewis has well and truly become a brainwashed leftie, no critical thinking or sense of his own hypocrisy... you hate to see it

I wish Goallegacy still had a downvote button

McLewis wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:

McLewis wrote:I haven't been watching.

And yes it is for those "woke" reasons El G alluded to.

I guess you won't watch it when the one of the  most murderous current countries in earth hosts it next time?

If we ever do completely oppress the LGBTQ community (and the Republicans are giving that a fair go in some parts) as well as build stadiums with slave labor (let's say felons in our prison industrial complex), then you'll be correct.

And mind you, the US are not the only country that will host. Canada and Mexico will as well. Perhaps I'll just watch the matches hosted in those countries and not my own if the above comes to pass.

So supporting a murderous apartheid state (Israel), imprisoning and torturing so called terrorists without cause, invading Iraq and murdering innocents under false pretences, etc is all inconsequential? Far worse than what Qatar is doing

Ya idk where you would draw the line since there is no country on earth that's entirely moral. Every country is terrible to some degree

I dont think it's possible to be a global superpower and not be involved in proxy wars tbh. Then you'd quickly lose that status

Supporting israel is fucked, but they're a natural ally in proximity to the Arab nations. Being super nice doesnt make you a super power

I think the difference is that Qatar used slave labor for the world cup, leading to thousands of deaths.

The other countries do terrible things but separate from football. I don't remember anyone saying we should boicott Russia 2018 because of Crimea, but do remember people saying that because of the corruption allegations to get the slot.

It's when the host's heinous activities mix with the football product that people feel strongly enough about it to stop watching.

From what I'm seeing, nobody is talking or even thinking about the slave labor issue anymore. Since the start of the tournament inclusivity and LGBTQ rights have monopolized the headlines Don't get me wrong I'm not against LGBTQ activism nor do I believe it's impossible to care about multiple things at once,  but the way this issue took center stage and pushed some more pressing human right abuses out of the conversation is odd to me.

The bottom line is that Qatar will not become an LGBTQ-friendly country anytime soon, not in our lifetime, our children's, or our grandchildren's. And it's not some little armband or other forms of on-field protest that's going to change that  Hell the battle isn't even fully won in the more progressive west. In the US you have a partisan supreme court that is working diligently to repeal gay marriage laws and states where archaic sodomy laws are still in effect  

I think you gotta know how to pick your battles and settle for incremental progress. I don't see a scenario where a country like Qatar would shift from a religious regressive society to a progressive one at the drop of a hat. What is achievable however is the abolishment of the Kafala system and the improvement of working conditions and rights for migrant workers. With enough international pressure and damaging coverage of the situation, Qatar will have to relent and work towards phasing out this abhorrent system. But I'm not seeing enough talk about this, this past week it's all been rainbow flag this, armband that...

I think we shouldn't confuse media coverage with the reasons people are not watching. If it were up to the media, they'd have us believe no beet in stadiums is as bad as death penalty for minor crimes.

I laughed at Infantino's rants to defend the world cup, even asked medias to attack him instead of qatari authorities. His comments about feeling gay, feeling disabled and what not... must have received a big cheque to put his own head on the block like that

The best communication strategy by FIFA was to talk strictly about football for 1 month and let medias talk their shit. Instead their current moralizing stance to justify things that go against their pretended valors is very ridiculous

So I didn't intend to derail this thread with my response to the question asked earlier.

We can discuss the geopolitical aspect of this tournament in the politics section. I'll start a prompt there.

So to continue the conversation from the World Cup thread and to start a convo on a bigger topic.

I've decided not to watch the World Cup primarily due to 3 reasons:

- The way in which Qatar was awarded host rights by FIFA, who have become increasingly corrupt.
- The largely Nepalese slave labor used by Qatar to build these stadiums and everything that goes with that.
- Qatar's suppression of the expression of supporting the LGBTQIA+ movement by fans, media, federations, players and teams.

I made this decision immediately way back in 2014. I just knew this wasn't a tournament I was going to watch. Just didn't see it happening. Did I boycott Russia 2018? Not as comprehensively as I have this one. Will I boycott the one coming up in 2026 if my country hosts it along with Canada and Mexico? Possibly. Let's unpack that a bit. Many of you should know by now that I'm not afraid to criticize my country for the way it treats people internally and externally. I've made that abundantly clear all throughout the threads in this section. I'm not a bleeding heart patriot that will defend my country no matter what. I can and will criticize this country wherever I see fit to do so. It's one of those inalienable rights I have as a citizen.

The way the US has gone around destabilizing struggling nations throughout the 20th and 21st centuries has never been far from my mind. We say we've done it to halt communism, yet it's very clear we're doing it primarily for keep our capitalist society at the peak of its power and our military hegemony exactly the way it is. I know all of that. So when the WC comes here in 2026, the question I will ask myself is: How will we treat those who come to this country for this tournament and want to protest the atrocities we've committed against their countries and others? As an American, I feel rather confident in saying that those protests will be allowed to occur, whether we agree or disagree with them. Protest is essential in this country. It's sacred. It's how the most momentous things get done. It's how the most powerless among us express ourselves. We want people to feel comfortable doing that here, even if they are guests. I'm not exaggerating by saying that if someone comes here for the '26 WC and they want to protest against the US hosting it, it's as simple as finding a group here who agree with them and I believe there will be plenty of those. That's is the starkest difference between the US and Qatar and if I do choose to watch this tournament, that difference will be a key reason why.

So someone like El G calling my stance on boycotting this WC "woke" is something I will wear like a badge of honor.

I've seen far too many on this forum through that term around with red pill derision, corrupting it from its original meaning: To become aware of the social injustices around us and to support marginalized people by spreading awareness of their plight. Why exactly is such a thing met with so much hostility and aggression? That's a question I'd love a critically thought out answer to.

Netflix released a rather decent documentary on the corruption of FIFA. Watching that didn't cement my decision to boycott this tournament by any means, of course, but it is something that continues to validate it.

McLewis wrote:I made this decision immediately way back in 2014.

i call bullshit

Qatar has every right to run their country however they want. Just as Kanye said with "400 years of slavery sounds like a choice to me" those slave labourers could have easily stood up and said "I AM NOT DOING THIS! I WILL NOT WORK MYSELF TO THE DEATH". And what would the consequences have been... i don't know? The Qatari princes killing them? At least they would have died with that human rights/worker rights dignity. But of course they didn't. They took the chance to work, and survive the horrendous conditions. That's what most would do in that situation. So if 10 years of slave labour to build super-stadiums is where you draw the line and wave your virtue-signalling flag in comparison to America's large history of atrocities, and all other nations bullshit too, then I'm sorry that sounds like you heard it from CNN and your favourite leftie news sources and now you wanna throw a tantrum about it.

And if it all comes down to protests, as you argue in your post above. I also call bullshit. Protests mean absolutely nothing, it's only violence and revolutions which get things done in this world. Just look at that stupid act of taking a knee before a game in favour of BLM, that's been going on for 2 years now and what change has it brought about?

Check your hypocrisy, please.

farfan wrote:From what I'm seeing, nobody is talking or even thinking about the slave labor issue anymore. Since the start of the tournament inclusivity and LGBTQ rights have monopolized the headlines Don't get me wrong I'm not against LGBTQ activism nor do I believe it's impossible to care about multiple things at once,  but the way this issue took center stage and pushed some more pressing human right abuses out of the conversation is odd to me.

The bottom line is that Qatar will not become an LGBTQ-friendly country anytime soon, not in our lifetime, our children's, or our grandchildren's. And it's not some little armband or other forms of on-field protest that's going to change that  Hell the battle isn't even fully won in the more progressive west. In the US you have a partisan supreme court that is working diligently to repeal gay marriage laws and states where archaic sodomy laws are still in effect  

I think you gotta know how to pick your battles and settle for incremental progress. I don't see a scenario where a country like Qatar would shift from a religious regressive society to a progressive one at the drop of a hat. What is achievable however is the abolishment of the Kafala system and the improvement of working conditions and rights for migrant workers. With enough international pressure and damaging coverage of the situation, Qatar will have to relent and work towards phasing out this abhorrent system. But I'm not seeing enough talk about this, this past week it's all been rainbow flag this, armband that...

Agreed 100 per cent

McLewis wrote:
So someone like El G calling my stance on boycotting this WC "woke" is something I will wear like a badge of honor.

I've seen far too many on this forum through that term around with red pill derision, corrupting it from its original meaning: To become aware of the social injustices around us and to support marginalized people by spreading awareness of their plight. Why exactly is such a thing met with so much hostility and aggression? That's a question I'd love a critically thought out answer to.

On internet in general, certainly not just on this forum, the definition of woke has changed over the years. Because woke movement = honorable principles, terrible application

Woke movement is now met with derision because it has no real positive influence, mostly intellectual bullies actively seeking to be offended, as if nobody else had an ounce of critical thought.

Who is not aware of social injustices ? Who really thinks wearing rainbow armband will dissolve homophobia in the middle east ? More like as citizens our influence is little to none and most people just try to make their way through life. But wokes will applaud any form of provocation because deep down very sad people, the goal is to create controversy in a world they dislike, the tangible effect is to divide rather than federate.

Lucifer wrote:

farfan wrote:From what I'm seeing, nobody is talking or even thinking about the slave labor issue anymore. Since the start of the tournament inclusivity and LGBTQ rights have monopolized the headlines Don't get me wrong I'm not against LGBTQ activism nor do I believe it's impossible to care about multiple things at once,  but the way this issue took center stage and pushed some more pressing human right abuses out of the conversation is odd to me.

The bottom line is that Qatar will not become an LGBTQ-friendly country anytime soon, not in our lifetime, our children's, or our grandchildren's. And it's not some little armband or other forms of on-field protest that's going to change that  Hell the battle isn't even fully won in the more progressive west. In the US you have a partisan supreme court that is working diligently to repeal gay marriage laws and states where archaic sodomy laws are still in effect  

I think you gotta know how to pick your battles and settle for incremental progress. I don't see a scenario where a country like Qatar would shift from a religious regressive society to a progressive one at the drop of a hat. What is achievable however is the abolishment of the Kafala system and the improvement of working conditions and rights for migrant workers. With enough international pressure and damaging coverage of the situation, Qatar will have to relent and work towards phasing out this abhorrent system. But I'm not seeing enough talk about this, this past week it's all been rainbow flag this, armband that...

Agreed 100 per cent

Are you seriously telling me a society where people have to cover their knees/arms and where sex outside of marriage is prohibited doesnt care about A RAINBOW ARMBAND?

El Gunner wrote:

McLewis wrote:I made this decision immediately way back in 2014.

i call bullshit

That's your prerogative. Doesn't change anything about when I came to this decision.

Qatar has every right to run their country however they want. Just as Kanye said with "400 years of slavery sounds like a choice to me" those slave labourers could have easily stood up and said "I AM NOT DOING THIS! I WILL NOT WORK MYSELF TO THE DEATH". And what would the consequences have been... i don't know? The Qatari princes killing them? At least they would have died with that human rights/worker rights dignity. But of course they didn't. They took the chance to work, and survive the horrendous conditions. That's what most would do in that situation. So if 10 years of slave labour to build super-stadiums is where you draw the line and wave your virtue-signalling flag in comparison to America's large history of atrocities, and all other nations bullshit too, then I'm sorry that sounds like you heard it from CNN and your favourite leftie news sources and now you wanna throw a tantrum about it.

Those workers never stood a chance. You and I both know it. Qatar preyed upon their desperation and here you are saying they had a choice between abject poverty, which would've led to death anyway, working themselves to death, and rebelling, which would've ended in a violent death. There is no honor or dignity in death. That's a myth invented by literature and film. Qatar had numerous choices here, made the worst ones and were rewarded for it yet here you are carrying their water by way of Kanye? Yikes.

Like many others, I became "woke" to FIFA's corruption when Russia and Qatar were announced as the next hosts. At that point, it wasn't even about geopolitics. It was initially and purely about FIFA ignoring better bids in lieu of selling the rights to host a world cup to the highest bidders. As more was learned, my views evolved accordingly yet to have you tell it, that's apparently virtue-signaling.

And if it all comes down to protests, as you argue in your post above. I also call bullshit. Protests mean absolutely nothing, it's only violence and revolutions which get things done in this world. Just look at that stupid act of taking a knee before a game in favour of BLM, that's been going on for 2 years now and what change has it brought about?

Check your hypocrisy, please.

Hypocrisy isn't the word you're looking for here, but my point is that just about every riot or revolution starts as a protest and if people who don't think the US should host a World Cup come here to protest that, as that WC is happening, no one is going to stop them from doing it. That alone makes us an exponentially better representative for this sport than Qatar will ever be. You don't have to like it, but that's not hypocrisy.

Im confused...all the fuss about no beer in the stadiums, since Im pretty I saw fans holding big cups of them today? Arg or the Fra game dont remember...?

Qatari representative says 400-500 migrant workers died not 6500 as stated by Western media... also says Gay people are welcome in Qatar, just no public display of affection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPaGtOLkUt8

Qatari representative says 400-500 migrant workers died not 6500 as stated by Western media... also says Gay people are welcome in Qatar, just no public display of affection regardless of sexuality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPaGtOLkUt8

What are his sources on that death toll number? It's pretty typical historically for the side committing atrocities to downplay just how many suffered from them. I'd be a lot more inclined to take that seriously if it came from a third-party body.

As for that "welcome" for the LGBTQIA+ community, that rings rather hollow to me. He's essentially telling gay people not to be gay while in his country.

Only 500 people died instead of 6500 is not the flex they think it is

Gay people being allowed to be present but not be publicly gay is them being 'tolerated', not 'welcome'

Qatar has a population of 3 million, and 2 million are migrant workers. They also work in one of the hottest countries on the earth. Those death counts aren't surprising to me at all.

I'm just honestly dumbfounded that in the face of such blatant corruption the entire FIFA board has not resigned yet Juve-style. Qatar is exactly what it is, and we're not going to change it. The main issue is the corruption