Re: Calcio Saga 19/20

by Art Morte Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:14 pm

Robespierre wrote:
But he is not even professional , well we are talking really about a some paesant
We're not talking about Sky Italy, Mediaset or even Dazn
We're talking about an insignificant network of a programme tv that is a mix of cabaret and "bar sport" where """ pundits""" are paid per "attendance tokens" (they've not regular contract, paid in basis to presence . In fact he wasn't really fired, simply he won't invited again) .
The man is an idiot etc that's clear
And promtly everyone kept the distances from him even in that programme ( so, I'd not extend the blame)
So how could you generalize this,
I mean if " black players shouldn't play in Serie A because of it , for me it's is a generalization who banalizes problem of racism.
Moreover Racism is a matter in Italian stadiums (and that's true of course, and in fact that's the problem , not a Passirani not even known by me ) but if we want to believe racism is just a problem of Serie A we're not going to resolve situation but we're underrating the problem.
Ok no twitter, so wasn't also Sterling booed at Stamford Bridge for example ?

There is racism in every country, not just Italy, but I cannot see an incident like this happening on TV in England (for example), no matter how regional the programme is.

by Robespierre Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:52 pm

Questa storia di Passirani e le banane sta facendo il giro del mondo, sto piangendo. Parliamo di uno il cui apice della notorietà è stato perdere il parrucchino in diretta. Viva la globalizzazione
— Ivan Ivanovic Ivanov (@Alphapova) 16 settembre 2019

translated :

This story of Passirani and bananas is going around the world, I'm crying. We are talking about a man who had as peak of his fame to have lost his toupet on live tv. Long live globalisation

My same thought tbh

by Warrior Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:55 pm

Ivan Ivanovic Ivanov Proud

by Art Morte Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:18 pm

Robespierre wrote:
Questa storia di Passirani e le banane sta facendo il giro del mondo, sto piangendo. Parliamo di uno il cui apice della notorietà è stato perdere il parrucchino in diretta. Viva la globalizzazione
— Ivan Ivanovic Ivanov (@Alphapova) 16 settembre 2019

translated :

This story of Passirani and bananas is going around the world, I'm crying. We are talking about a man who had as peak of his fame to have lost his toupet on live tv. Long live globalisation

My same thought tbh

Well, sure, but in the last month we've had a crowd make monkey chants at Lukaku, then fans writing a silly-ass letter saying that monkey chants in Italy aren't racist and now a small-time TV pundit suggesting you should feed bananas to Lukaku. Kind of a hard time to be arguing that Italian football isn't any more racist than any other league, if you ask me.

by rincon Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:23 pm

In more interesting topics... Torino-Lecce at 8:45 for anyone interested.

Torino are 2 for 2 with a 1-2 at Sassuolo and 3-2 vs Atalanta. They are playing well, Mazzarri turned them into a solid team. Belotti has 9 goals already in all competitions (6/6 in EL, 1/2 Serie A, 2/2 NT) and is looking sharp with a better functioning team around him.

Lecce look set for relegation so it should put send Torino to the top of the table.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:26 pm

There's plenty of racist dog-whistling on British TV

by Arquitecto Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:39 pm

Art Morte wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
Questa storia di Passirani e le banane sta facendo il giro del mondo, sto piangendo. Parliamo di uno il cui apice della notorietà è stato perdere il parrucchino in diretta. Viva la globalizzazione
— Ivan Ivanovic Ivanov (@Alphapova) 16 settembre 2019

translated :

This story of Passirani and bananas is going around the world, I'm crying. We are talking about a man who had as peak of his fame to have lost his toupet on live tv. Long live globalisation

My same thought tbh

Well, sure, but in the last month we've had a crowd make monkey chants at Lukaku, then fans writing a silly-ass letter saying that monkey chants in Italy aren't racist and now a small-time TV pundit suggesting you should feed bananas to Lukaku. Kind of a hard time to be arguing that Italian football isn't any more racist than any other league, if you ask me.

The letter was written by Ultras, who despite the wonderful noise and chants they contribute to footballing teams, they tend to take their team more seriously than their own life and only are accepted within their own ranks outside of the arena.

Pundits like Passirani are from a bygone era who still hold outdated views even in the confines of Calcio itself and has been removed.

The problem with Serie A compared to the Premiership is how they deal with racists to where the action is not swift enough compared to in England where they are habitual in simply removing such cretins.

Racism exists both countries in their own spectrums if not plenty of European countries as the problem comes down to how well the federations deal with them. Ultras have more power than they should be given in Italia as it is, and that is a sad fact.

by Art Morte Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:52 pm

Arquitecto wrote:
Art Morte wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
Questa storia di Passirani e le banane sta facendo il giro del mondo, sto piangendo. Parliamo di uno il cui apice della notorietà è stato perdere il parrucchino in diretta. Viva la globalizzazione
— Ivan Ivanovic Ivanov (@Alphapova) 16 settembre 2019

translated :

This story of Passirani and bananas is going around the world, I'm crying. We are talking about a man who had as peak of his fame to have lost his toupet on live tv. Long live globalisation

My same thought tbh

Well, sure, but in the last month we've had a crowd make monkey chants at Lukaku, then fans writing a silly-ass letter saying that monkey chants in Italy aren't racist and now a small-time TV pundit suggesting you should feed bananas to Lukaku. Kind of a hard time to be arguing that Italian football isn't any more racist than any other league, if you ask me.

The letter was written by Ultras, who despite the wonderful noise and chants they contribute to footballing teams, they tend to take their team more seriously than their own life and only are accepted within their own ranks outside of the arena.

Pundits like Passirani are from a bygone era who still hold outdated views even in the confines of Calcio itself and has been removed.

The problem with Serie A compared to the Premiership is how they deal with racists to where the action is not swift enough compared to in England where they are habitual in simply removing such cretins.

Racism exists both countries in their own spectrums if not plenty of European countries as the problem comes down to how well the federations deal with them. Ultras have more power than they should be given in Italia as it is, and that is a sad fact.

Yes yes yes, it's very convenient to dismiss racist fans as Ultras that should somehow be looked as a separate section of the crowd and society and "bygone era pundits" as a thing of the past even though they were on TV yesterday.

by adun101 Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:31 pm

Art Morte wrote:
Yes yes yes, it's very convenient to dismiss racist fans as Ultras that should somehow be looked as a separate section of the crowd and society and "bygone era pundits" as a thing of the past even though they were on TV yesterday.

Ultras are a pest, it's not easy to get rid of them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/juventus-ultras-leaders-arrested-over-alleged-ticketing-racket/ar-AAHnKuO

As for Passirani, since I'm someone who likes to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe the dumbass was trying to make a fat joke, but used the one type of food that he wasn't supposed to.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:35 pm

adun101 wrote:
As for Passirani, since I'm someone who likes to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe the dumbass was trying to make a fat joke, but used the one type of food that he wasn't supposed to.

Yeah, no

by adun101 Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:43 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
adun101 wrote:
As for Passirani, since I'm someone who likes to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe the dumbass was trying to make a fat joke, but used the one type of food that he wasn't supposed to.

Yeah, no

Boh, he said ten bananas, not one or two. To me, that suggested a large quantity of food.

by Art Morte Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:45 pm

Oh yeah, that age old proverb "ten bananas make a fat man". This thread is getting more ridiculous by the hour.

by Robespierre Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:52 pm

But honestly for me it's even hilarious associate the word " pundit" to Passirani , considering how much was irrilevant this man till to yesterday Laughing

Luciano Passirani

by Robespierre Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:59 pm

adun101 wrote:
Art Morte wrote:
Yes yes yes, it's very convenient to dismiss racist fans as Ultras that should somehow be looked as a separate section of the crowd and society and "bygone era pundits" as a thing of the past even though they were on TV yesterday.

Ultras are a pest, it's not easy to get rid of them.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/juventus-ultras-leaders-arrested-over-alleged-ticketing-racket/ar-AAHnKuO

As for Passirani, since I'm someone who likes to give the benefit of the doubt, maybe the dumbass was trying to make a fat joke, but used the one type of food that he wasn't supposed to.

Yes, thanks for sharing this article, I was talking about it when I tried to describe the " ultras world " in Italy during the Lukaku fact

At the stadium they support more theirselves than their team, for the rest their activity coincides with
criminal organizations (as Juve ultras have showed, but it's same everywhere.
Just last month : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/10/death-of-diabolik-fabrizio-piscitelli-lazio-football-ultra) . and of course 90% are of extreme right

In few words, the trash

by rincon Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:24 pm

Lecce playing surprisingly well. Not parking the bus either, bringing their game to Torino. Winning 1-2 with 15 minutes to go. A draw would probably be the fair result of this game.

by rincon Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:25 pm

Didn't realize Babacar was now a bench player at Lecce. What the hell happened with his career.

by RealGunner Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:42 pm

Khouma? man he was a fifa beast

by Robespierre Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:01 pm

Scrub player who becomes George Weah just when he faces Inter

by Arquitecto Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:45 am

Art Morte wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:
Art Morte wrote:

Well, sure, but in the last month we've had a crowd make monkey chants at Lukaku, then fans writing a silly-ass letter saying that monkey chants in Italy aren't racist and now a small-time TV pundit suggesting you should feed bananas to Lukaku. Kind of a hard time to be arguing that Italian football isn't any more racist than any other league, if you ask me.

The letter was written by Ultras, who despite the wonderful noise and chants they contribute to footballing teams, they tend to take their team more seriously than their own life and only are accepted within their own ranks outside of the arena.

Pundits like Passirani are from a bygone era who still hold outdated views even in the confines of Calcio itself and has been removed.

The problem with Serie A compared to the Premiership is how they deal with racists to where the action is not swift enough compared to in England where they are habitual in simply removing such cretins.

Racism exists both countries in their own spectrums if not plenty of European countries as the problem comes down to how well the federations deal with them. Ultras have more power than they should be given in Italia as it is, and that is a sad fact.

Yes yes yes, it's very convenient to dismiss racist fans as Ultras that should somehow be looked as a separate section of the crowd and society and "bygone era pundits" as a thing of the past even though they were on TV yesterday.

Conflating outliers in the form of the racist contingent of ultras with the general population of Serie A tifosi simply is not a constructive argument given the racism that occurs in these stadiums basically occurs, specifically from them.

The ultra mentality is a juvenile delinquent and simply are not held in regard or respect in the country outside of the stadium, and resort to such things because they are essentially irrelevant off their supporting stands.

If FIGC deals with them swiftly like the FA have, it will cease to exist on a number of years coming.

The pundit? No one knew his name before this incident as we are speaking of a Generation X part-timer who isn't even taken seriously.

The problem comes down to the methods of dealing with these delinquents. The rest is just noise.

by McLewis Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:46 pm

I'm not sure I buy the argument that ultras no longer have the influence with clubs that they once had. If they are truly as irrelevant as they appear to be, why do clubs seem so hesitant to take them on when they do and say stupid things like the Cagliari, Inter and Verona ultras? And I'm not talking about anemic statements posted on social media. I'm talking lifetime bans.

Ultra groups still wield far more power and influence than it appears clubs and fans are comfortable admitting.

by Kaladin Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:55 pm

Its these backwater hillbilly towns that are the problem most of the time, i think can say with confidence that we as a team - and me as a fan - have seen the most racist abuse out of any fanbase/club in Italy. KPB, Muntari, Essien, Bakayoko and now Kessie. This type of shit doesn't always happen in say when we go to Fiorentina away.

by Robespierre Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:45 pm

Well I remember also Paul Ince , when he was an Inter player, had been offended with racist abuse by Cremonese ultras in Cremona in the mid 1990s.
Even the Cremona mayor wrote him a letter of apology.
So it is not even a problem of these days, perhaps just worsened
Having said that...

Arquitecto wrote:
Conflating outliers in the form of the racist contingent of ultras with the general population of Serie A tifosi simply is not a constructive argument given the racism that occurs in these stadiums basically occurs, specifically from them.

The ultra mentality is a juvenile delinquent and simply are not held in regard or respect in the country outside of the stadium, and resort to such things because they are essentially irrelevant off their supporting stands.

If FIGC deals with them swiftly like the FA have, it will cease to exist on a number of years coming.

The pundit? No one knew his name before this incident as we are speaking of a Generation X part-timer who isn't even taken seriously.

The problem comes down to the methods of dealing with these delinquents. The rest is just noise.

Exactly.

McLewis wrote:I'm not sure I buy the argument that ultras no longer have the influence with clubs that they once had. If they are truly as irrelevant as they appear to be, why do clubs seem so hesitant to take them on when they do and say stupid things like the Cagliari, Inter and Verona ultras? And I'm not talking about anemic statements posted on social media. I'm talking lifetime bans.

Ultra groups still wield far more power and influence than it appears clubs and fans are comfortable admitting.

Well tbf it is not so easy to identify a minority who booes a black player, that's a serious problem too
Otherwise they'd do it. I don't know if it happens also in Germany too (to say another country with organized ultras at the stadium) , but for example in Serie A you get " Daspo" even if you light a firecracker..
We 're not talking about a racist hang banner because in that case it 'd be much easier to find those morons.
Serie A closes a whole tier of the stadium ( even if it is because of a minority ) or even the whole stadium for some matches ( as happened for San Siro after Napoli match) also when it's because of minority ( I don't like this, especially if it is as 2nd thing where 80% of spectators do nothing)
So some drastic measure is being taken , but it is ineffective.

by McLewis Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:33 pm

See, I'm not sure I buy that either. Are we really saying that technology doesn't exist in these stadiums to identify where the racist chants are coming from and send security personnel into those areas to investigate, identify the offenders and remove them then have the club ban them? England seem to have developed ways of identifying these offenders and punishing them. Here in the States, fans caught racially abusing players or other fans are quickly identified and punished.

Yet in Italy though.....so much energy seems to go into why something like this can't be avoided or why it's pointless to even try. It's talked about as if it's impossible when the reality is that there is a lack of will to address this issue at the highest levels of the sport. The clubs fear the ultras and will do only the bare minimum to ensure their stadiums stay full. It's a shit show and to be perfectly frank, the more this happens, the less interested I am in spending money on a league that won't do right by players who look like me. This is not hard. It's not impossible. The FIGC and the clubs (most of them anyway) completely lack the conviction to stand up to these ultras and address this issue.

by Arquitecto Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:35 pm

Completely agreed McLewis. The problem once again comes down to how poorly the FIGC deals with these segregated felons not a wide-scale problem in Italy like it is made out to be.

And of course the Cagliari have gotten scot-free for their tifosi antics vs Inter, confirmed today.

by McLewis Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:38 pm

Agnelli: Juve blackmailed by ultras
By Football Italia staff

Andrea Agnelli claims Juventus were blackmailed by ultras as it is alleged they threatened to sing racist chants if they did not receive free tickets.

Twelve leaders of Juve ultras groups were arrested yesterday for criminal conspiracy, blackmail, money laundering and violence.

The Bianconeri have been working with authorities in their investigation, and Agnelli admitted his club had been pressured by hardcore fans.

“Juve have been forced to adhere to the demands of the ultras, aware of the possible negative consequences such as racist chants and other conduct likely to result in fines, bans or closure of the curva,” the patron told prosecutors in Turin.

The arrests were followed by a banner that read, “the Curva Sud is dead,” amidst speculation it had been rolled out by the group ‘Drughi’.

‘Drughi’ was described by deputy prosecutor Patrizia Caputo as a ‘military-type’ organisation, whose members have ‘a lifestyle of violence’.

In the meantime, ANSA reports Juve’s home match against Verona this Saturday could be postponed due to rising tensions amongst supporters.

“Saturday’s game was one that already caught our attention,” warned Turin police chief Giuseppe De Matteis.

“They are two fan bases with different ideologies. Now the risks are increasing because reactions are predictable.”

And of course, because they don't like that Agnelli followed the law and cooperated with the police, they are boycotting Juve's away game at Atleti because they are gigantic manbabies.

It's like I said, they hold a lot more sway over these clubs than people appear comfortable admitting. This is the real problem in Italian football and no one wants to actually fix it.

by McLewis Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:47 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Completely agreed McLewis. The problem once again comes down to how poorly the FIGC deals with these segregated felons not a wide-scale problem in Italy like it is made out to be.

And of course the Cagliari have gotten scot-free for their tifosi antics vs Inter, confirmed today.

It seems to me that it's almost like the FIGC have greased the palms of UEFA and FIFA to look the other way on this as well. If the FIGC can or won't take action here, then UEFA and/or FIFA should. Knowing how corrupt both of those organizations are, I'm not holding my breath.

Pallotta at least had the the balls to speak out against our ultras and it ignited a nearly season-long war of words with them and several stadium boycotts. I have never seen such a an emotionally sensitive group of grown men in my life.

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