I got to thinking about the best young player - not older than 23 - for the top national teams. And I don't mean teenagers who might become great, I mean players who've already established themselves.

Here's my list:

France - Mbabbe
Germany - Sane / Kimmich?
Brazil - Jesus?
Spain - ???
Italy - ???
Argentina - Correa / Simeone?
Belgium - ???
Netherlands - ???
Portugal - Andre Silva?
England - Rashford?

Isn't that a pretty bad situation? What's happened to world-class young talent?

Pellegrini or Romagnoli

Argentina can't be Correa/Simeone, I don't know the age of all their players but there has to be someone else.

Spain - Asensio
Netherlands - de Ligt/de Jong
England - Sancho
Belgium - Tielemans

Not bad at all.

I honestly don't know how many established top players younger than 24 you usually have so - is it bad? No idea.
But I'm certainly not worried about the future when looking at the young players we have today.

Argentina - Pavón/Lo Celso

Pretty average both of them tbh. Not the next Messi or Kun. Not even the next Dybala or Icardi if I'm honest.

urbaNRoots wrote:Spain - Asensio
Netherlands - de Ligt/de Jong
England - Sancho
Belgium - Tielemans

Not bad at all.

zigra wrote:I honestly don't know how many established top players younger than 24 you usually have so - is it bad? No idea.
But I'm certainly not worried about the future when looking at the young players we have today.

I'm kinda surprised how upbeat you guys are about today's top young talent.

Look at it this way: how many of these NTs have a 23-or-younger player who looks set to at least match the biggest talent of the previous generation?

No one from Argentina, Portugal or Brazil is going to match Messi, Ronaldo or Neymar, that much seems clear.

Is Pellegrini or Romagnoli going to match Pirlo? No.
Is Tielemans going to match Hazard? No.
Is Marco fucking Asensio going to match anybody? No.
Is Rashford or Sancho going to match Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard? I don't think so.
Is De Ligt or De Jong going to match Robben? I don't think so.

Mbabbe has the potential to match and overtake his older countrymen and maybe Sane or Kimmich or someone else can match Özil/Muller/Lahm/Schweini. But elsewhere it seems to me like the best talent of the latest generation isn't as good as the best talent of the couple of previous generations.

In defense of Pellegrini, he is a completely different player to Pirlo as he isn't a deep-lying playmaking midfielder. It's perhaps more apt to say he's not on Totti, ADP or Baggio's level given they all played similar positions.

Your point is still well taken though.

Also i wouldn't be surprised if Sancho and Rashford perform better than the older generation Art mentioned.

Although it's two different times and worlds and as I've mentioned before the national team is probably in a better state structurally than it has since i was kid.

Speaking for USA here, it's definitely Pulisic.

Right now, I think he's nowhere near Donovan or Dempsey, who are absolute legends. He's perhaps more technical talented than they were at his age and stage of development, but they brought so much more to our game than just that. They were clutch in the highest pressure situations imaginable for USA. He hasn't displayed that yet. Maybe when it's all said and done, he ends his career having surpassed them both, but right now, he's done nothing yet. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Denmark: Andreas Christenen on NT / Dolberg on club level

Sadly he doesn't play on club level anymore it seems

danyjr wrote:Argentina - Pavón/Lo Celso

Pretty average both of them tbh. Not the next Messi or Kun. Not even the next Dybala or Icardi if I'm honest.

I'll take Lautaro over both

But honestly if we all knew who the best 18byear old of each country is we would be the best paid scout at a top club. Surely Argentina won't produce another Messi, but I'm sure we will have another Kun in 5 years.

Art Morte wrote:

urbaNRoots wrote:Spain - Asensio
Netherlands - de Ligt/de Jong
England - Sancho
Belgium - Tielemans

Not bad at all.

zigra wrote:I honestly don't know how many established top players younger than 24 you usually have so - is it bad? No idea.
But I'm certainly not worried about the future when looking at the young players we have today.

I'm kinda surprised how upbeat you guys are about today's top young talent.

Look at it this way: how many of these NTs have a 23-or-younger player who looks set to at least match the biggest talent of the previous generation?

No one from Argentina, Portugal or Brazil is going to match Messi, Ronaldo or Neymar, that much seems clear.

Is Pellegrini or Romagnoli going to match Pirlo? No.
Is Tielemans going to match Hazard? No.
Is Marco fucking Asensio going to match anybody? No.
Is Rashford or Sancho going to match Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard? I don't think so.
Is De Ligt or De Jong going to match Robben? I don't think so.

Mbabbe has the potential to match and overtake his older countrymen and maybe Sane or Kimmich or someone else can match Özil/Muller/Lahm/Schweini. But elsewhere it seems to me like the best talent of the latest generation isn't as good as the best talent of the couple of previous generations.

I only tried to mention the best talents of the countries you put a question mark on, was not trying to make a point.

Sure this generation does not look as good as players in their prime but Lampard, Pirlo weren‘t seen as such either at 20-21, they were young players who hadn‘t estabilished themselves— you know the ones you don‘t want us to mention in this thread.

I don‘t think football is at risk of lacking generational talent, if that is your point, because you have the likes of Havertz (Germany), Nelson (England), Barella (Italy), Lautaro (Argentina), Rodrygo (Brazil), who haven‘t estabilished themselves yet but look incredibly talented.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

danyjr wrote:Argentina - Pavón/Lo Celso

Pretty average both of them tbh. Not the next Messi or Kun. Not even the next Dybala or Icardi if I'm honest.

I'll take Lautaro over both

But honestly if we all knew who the best 18byear old of each country is we would be the best paid scout at a top club. Surely Argentina won't produce another Messi, but I'm sure we will have another Kun in 5 years.

He is very di María and I despise that guy

Is Pellegrini or Romagnoli going to match Pirlo? No.
Is Tielemans going to match Hazard? No.
Is Marco fucking Asensio going to match anybody? No.
Is Rashford or Sancho going to match Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard? I don't think so.
Is De Ligt or De Jong going to match Robben? I don't think so.

I find it stranger than you can this with any certainty at all.

By all accounts, the young players mentioned in this thread are very good players with potentially great careers ahead of them, provided they remain injury free. That's all we can say about them, because until they actually do something, there's no way we can compare them to great players of older generations.

I will point out though, that a lot of the players you mention didn't find consistency or an environment to showcase their best skills until their early-to-mid 20s. Not every great player establishes himself as a teenager.

I bet most of us would have dismissed Harry Kane when he was a teenager playing on loan in the Championship. He didn't make a breakthrough until he was 21. Now he's probably going to surpass Alan Shearer's PL goal record. Or look at Salah. A bright young player at Basel, but inconsistent throughout his early 20s, until all of a sudden at age 25 he has a 44 goal season and is now considered one of the best players in the world.

Then you get the other side of it, with guys like Fabregas and Michael Owen, who were outstanding as teenagers but faded as their careers went on.

The conclusion I take from this is that there will always be great players in every generation... but we don't know with any certainty where they'll come from or who'll it be, because sometimes the obviously talented players don't go on to have stellar careers.

^ That's why I said in the op that I don't mean teenagers whose potential is yet totally unknown, rather I mean 20-to-23-year-olds (or thereabouts).

And it just seems to me that there's a lack of "talismanic" talent there.

Hard to say about Italy , everyone looks like average if compared with other European talents
Chiesa hype is finished
We should look at Zaniolo for next months, if his hype is credible or not

Arty , Simeone Is terrible
Just a teetotal Andy Carroll
(Edit : well I suppose I should change example with you)

danyjr wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

danyjr wrote:Argentina - Pavón/Lo Celso

Pretty average both of them tbh. Not the next Messi or Kun. Not even the next Dybala or Icardi if I'm honest.

I'll take Lautaro over both

But honestly if we all knew who the best 18byear old of each country is we would be the best paid scout at a top club. Surely Argentina won't produce another Messi, but I'm sure we will have another Kun in 5 years.

He is very di María and I despise that guy

Do you despise Lautaro? Why

Anyway Icardi and Dybala aren' t considerered young players anymore ?

Jay29 wrote:

Is Pellegrini or Romagnoli going to match Pirlo? No.
Is Tielemans going to match Hazard? No.
Is Marco fucking Asensio going to match anybody? No.
Is Rashford or Sancho going to match Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard? I don't think so.
Is De Ligt or De Jong going to match Robben? I don't think so.

I find it stranger than you can this with any certainty at all.

By all accounts, the young players mentioned in this thread are very good players with potentially great careers ahead of them, provided they remain injury free. That's all we can say about them, because until they actually do something, there's no way we can compare them to great players of older generations.

I will point out though, that a lot of the players you mention didn't find consistency or an environment to showcase their best skills until their early-to-mid 20s. Not every great player establishes himself as a teenager.

I bet most of us would have dismissed Harry Kane when he was a teenager playing on loan in the Championship. He didn't make a breakthrough until he was 21. Now he's probably going to surpass Alan Shearer's PL goal record. Or look at Salah. A bright young player at Basel, but inconsistent throughout his early 20s, until all of a sudden at age 25 he has a 44 goal season and is now considered one of the best players in the world.

Then you get the other side of it, with guys like Fabregas and Michael Owen, who were outstanding as teenagers but faded as their careers went on.

The conclusion I take from this is that there will always be great players in every generation... but we don't know with any certainty where they'll come from or who'll it be, because sometimes the obviously talented players don't go on to have stellar careers.

I've mentioned this a few times before, players peak at different ages. Yet, all early peakers seem to get hyped to the heavens before they've achieved anything. It's not rational, but it's fun, I guess

Do you guys remember Bojan Krkic? The guy was an absolute legend at Barca's youth academy. Now, he's 28 and struggling for playing time at Stoke city.

McLewis wrote:Speaking for USA here, it's definitely Pulisic.

Right now, I think he's nowhere near Donovan or Dempsey, who are absolute legends. He's perhaps more technical talented than they were at his age and stage of development, but they brought so much more to our game than just that. They were clutch in the highest pressure situations imaginable for USA. He hasn't displayed that yet. Maybe when it's all said and done, he ends his career having surpassed them both, but right now, he's done nothing yet. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Well yeah, he's been on the team how long? And so young too.

It will happen eventually. He will be the best American player of all time

Not difficult to being him tbh

Süle, Sané, Kimmich, Werner, Goretzka, Brandt

Hapless_Hans wrote:Süle, Sané, Kimmich, Werner, Goretzka, Brandt

You just never listen to me, do you? No wonder I keep cheating on you.

Art Morte wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Süle, Sané, Kimmich, Werner, Goretzka, Brandt

You just never listen to me, do you? No wonder I keep cheating on you.

They've all Nt appearances in the double figures and are almost all starters, they're all starting for big clubs regularly, why don't they fit your requirements?

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Süle, Sané, Kimmich, Werner, Goretzka, Brandt

You just never listen to me, do you? No wonder I keep cheating on you.

They've all Nt appearances in the double figures and are almost all starters, they're all starting for big clubs regularly, why don't they fit your requirements?

The point was to compare them to the previous generation greats. My argument is that the best of the current young players coming through are worse than the previous generation's best, almost across the board when it comes to the big footballing nations.