Re: Zinedine Zidane, Manchester United Manager

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:23 pm

rincon wrote:A very clear question mark would be losing the league in October.

According to who? We were 7 points back in January. Barca lost 1 game the whole campaign and that occurred late in the season.

We started out slow (due to squad being unmotivated after all the success) and Barca had a historic run to take full advantage. Even when we got our act together, we were barely making up any ground. So to be pragmatic, we focused on CL.

Juve fans would die to win 1 CL.... let alone 3 in a row.

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:26 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Mourinho's squad was very different tbh, Ancelotti was successful, not as successful but he also had a very different Ronaldo.

Benitez isn't even worth mentioning because the players didn't respect him, also he was criticised for playing Casemiro and when he was pressured into not doing so Barca smashed them and magically Zidane used Casemiro with zero judgment lol.

Mourinho had Modric but benched him. He had Di Maria in his prime... who shats all over Bale. Alonso/Khedira over Kroos/Casemiro... up front, he had Ozil (godly Ozil) and Higuain to go with Benz and CR. Not to mention, the bench included one of Benz/higuain, Varane, arbeloa, callejon, Lass, Kaka, etc.

What's his excuse?

You know why he couldn't win CL. We'd get to the semis and he did something so his would be know as a genius... like starting Lass at RB... or Adebayor at CF... or one of Pepe/Ramos as a DM. Or put Ozil as a CM. Crap like that. He would try crazy things at the worse times.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:28 pm

You're responding like i rate Mourinho and making excuses for him tbh.

Just trying to be fair, he didn't have the same team what so ever.

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:30 pm

@mole... you remember the crazy lineups he would suddenly try in clasicos and CL semis? Mou was his own worst enemy. He tried too hard instead of going with what got him there.

His negative ways cost us goals in the big games and we ended up losing a lot of them. Carlo came in and made it about the players... and he won. But Carlo was way too relaxed and only played 11 players. ZZ combined the two styles... pragmatic tactics with player buy in. If the players don't believe in what they're doing, you'll never win.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:32 pm

Yeah i agree with you, just saying that i don't think squad to squad it's a fair comparison.

Ancelotti is a lot closer of a comparison.

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:41 pm

Zidane is criticized for a poor league record.

Yet, he nearly won it in his first half season despite taking over absolutely miles behind. Comfortably won it in his second season then had a poor third season where he couldn't motivate the double cl winners to graft out results away at the likes of osasuna and Levante which is completely understandable.

If thats a poor league record then only Pep has a good one.

by Lucifer Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:55 pm

sportsczy wrote:Zidane is criticized for a poor league record.

Yet, he nearly won it in his first half season despite taking over absolutely miles behind. Comfortably won it in his second season then had a poor third season where he couldn't motivate the double cl winners to graft out results away at the likes of osasuna and Levante which is completely understandable.

If thats a poor league record then only Pep has a good one.

Lucho won 2 out of three hmm

by rincon Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:57 pm

sportsczy wrote:
rincon wrote:A very clear question mark would be losing the league in October.

According to who? We were 7 points back in January. Barca lost 1 game the whole campaign and that occurred late in the season.

We started out slow (due to squad being unmotivated after all the success) and Barca had a historic run to take full advantage. Even when we got our act together, we were barely making up any ground. So to be pragmatic, we focused on CL.

Juve fans would die to win 1 CL.... let alone 3 in a row.

According to everyone hmm

A quick search tells me he was 8 points down in October. That's it. That's game in la liga.

Don't know what table you are looking at, but in January you weren't 7 points back, you were even worse, 16 points off Barca. Can't even speak of a come back because the final table was 1 point worse, with 17 down so the margin kept growing.

So yeah, that's a question mark. I don't know what Juve has to do with it. Losing like that in the league with such a squad absolutely counts as a question mark.

by Doc Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:21 pm

At least Rincon had the sense to just look it up but since I know my La Liga, we were totally not 7 points behind in January. We were 4th by the half way mark on 35 points, behind Valencia and 13 points behind Barcelona. That is a huge question mark for anyone who wants a manager suitable for a league winner.

Also, I have no idea why Sports is deliberately ignoring the realities of La Liga. A draw is a loss and a loss is a sackable offense for either Madrid and Barcelona. Even Zidane acknowledged (somewhat) that he was to blame for our La Liga campaign.

Honestly, any Utd fan should be wary of having Zidane as your manager (as you should with any manager fyi). He is a good manager, very good even but he has flaws. Flaws that I am sure the great man would eventually try to address himself.

by Doc Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:28 pm

With all that being said, I still feel Zidane would be good for Utd at this current juncture. They need a legit positive influence in charge of the team. Not just with their football but with everything. A manager who doesn't constantly moan about his squad and throws his players under the bus just to name two examples of the poisonous behaviour that is Jose.

by BarcaLearning Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:03 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Mourinho's squad was very different tbh, Ancelotti was successful, not as successful but he also had a very different Ronaldo.

Benitez isn't even worth mentioning because the players didn't respect him, also he was criticised for playing Casemiro and when he was pressured into not doing so Barca smashed them and magically Zidane used Casemiro with zero judgment lol.

Mourinho had Modric but benched him. He had Di Maria in his prime... who shats all over Bale. Alonso/Khedira over Kroos/Casemiro... up front, he had Ozil (godly Ozil) and Higuain to go with Benz and CR. Not to mention, the bench included one of Benz/higuain, Varane, arbeloa, callejon, Lass, Kaka, etc.

What's his excuse?

You know why he couldn't win CL. We'd get to the semis and he did something so his would be know as a genius... like starting Lass at RB... or Adebayor at CF... or one of Pepe/Ramos as a DM. Or put Ozil as a CM. Crap like that. He would try crazy things at the worse times.

Sport, wanna ask whats your opinion on Mou overall in terms of why he then failed at Chelsea and now Man U? And do u think he 'beat' Pep back at Real? I used to think that because of his Inter beating Peps Barca, and then at Real he did get Real to beat Barca during that second season, and Pep actually decided to resign eventually, which I also thought was largely down to Mou?

Of course now things are very different, Pep has evolved, while Mou hasnt?

Always interesting to see such as this thread where opinions can be so different and sometimes complete opposites when viewing the same issue Very Happy

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:45 pm

To me, CL trumps everything including league crowns. So when Mou couldn't win the CL and pep did during those years... and Barca won 2 La Liga crowns to 1 for Mou... Pep outperformed Mou clearly.

But I also think Pep didn't do well at bayern, which is really a 1 team league. Winning EPL is far more difficult than winning Bundi... so Mou deserves his props there.

Your statement that Pep has evolved while Mou hasn't is spot on. The players own the game now... neither the clubs nor the managers. So a manager's job is as much about convincing players to buy into their project as it is tactics. Mou is an absolute disaster at managing personalities. He wants to be a tyrant. You can't bully players anymore.

as Mole pointed out as well, after his first year at Chelsea, he doesn't develop players anymore. Nobody has gotten better since that time. I think his bitterness over getting fired at Chelsea has made him impossible. He has deep psychological issues.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:02 pm

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Zidane was carried, the poisonous and negative atmosphere Mourinho creates means all Man Yoo fans should want this to happen.

Ignoring the fact he doesn't develop players as mentioned, he creates a situation where he's just bad for the club's long term health and it takes a long time to recover from.

Also he's recruitment has been terrible lol, most of the players he's brought in are worse than players already there.

Allowing that to continue will just put the club further back which will be hard to recover from.

by BarcaLearning Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:17 pm

Thanks as usual for the replies guys, and just to blab on a bit, I used to think Mou is evil and Pep is good kinda, and I couldnt believe how evil won, and Pep representing the good actually decided to quit Barca in the end. Anyway, so good to see 'good' won out over the long term now Razz

And Pep's footprint is more positive and long term at a club, Mou can never do that. Mou's way only works in certain environments.

Thats speaking generally as in energy or spirit I guess, not purely in football style terms, since as we all know, negative/defensive football often wins out unfortunately Razz

Zidane gives the feeling of that positive energy as well, Im sure most ppl prefer that especially the players and the club, and can accept his weaknesses together like maybe if hes still tactically not the best, etc.

by Thimmy Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:40 pm

Firenze wrote:I honestly - and I say this having not read any in depth discussion over the Zidane years in the Madrid section - don't believe any of the Real fans are being disrespectful with their comments regarding Zidane. Most (even outside of GL) have nothing really negative to say about him and are thankful for his historic contribution to the club but aren't prepared to think his farts smell like roses, he clearly has huge question marks around him and isn't the most tactically gifted coach but makes up for it with other strengths.

I hope he does go to Juve tbh as he can probably cultivate a similar atmosphere for himself and the players there as he did at Madrid and excel. His name carries respect everywhere but when the going gets tough some numpty called Lingard isn't going to be roused by a speech in a French accent about how historic the club is. But, even if I said I didn't want him recently, I'd take him yeah..Mourinho is just a black hole for anything positive. I don't want to take risks after 6 years of mediocrity but if it's that or Mourinho then it isn't even a choice. I am 95% sure he won't come here anyway. Juve/PSG is Tuchel flops. Stack those league trophies. He probably takes over at City post Pep too.

Somehow, reading a post from you that's not all about banter, doesn't quite seem right hmm

I share your impression regarding RM fans' general impression of ZZ. I wouldn't mind sport's comments, though. I think it's very clear at this point, that he's just some grumpy, old guy that has a Chad- like tendency to imagine the worst in everyone when it comes to assessing anything that is French. The guy probably looks like Marcelo Bielsa and smells like garlic farts.

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:10 pm

you really have a fart fetish... according to google, guys with fart fetishes have sexual fantasies that involve farting and sex with farm animals. Seems about the right category for you.

by Thimmy Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:54 pm

sportsczy wrote:you really have a fart fetish... according to google, guys with fart fetishes have sexual fantasies that involve farting and sex with farm animals. Seems about the right category for you.

If that was true, I'd probably have a higher opinion of you. That was a refreshing attempt at a joke from you, though.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:59 pm

can't we all just get along?

by juve_gigi Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:12 pm

How a coach who won 3 CL's in a row can't even be rated by some defies all logic. Don't care who he had on his team. When you win 3 CL's in a row you become a legendary coach. Pretty simple. Anyone who disagrees probably spends most of their time playing FIFA 19 in their mom's basement and is not engaged in the real world...

by S Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:17 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:can't we all just get along?

No.

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:59 pm

Thimmy wrote:
sportsczy wrote:you really have a fart fetish... according to google, guys with fart fetishes have sexual fantasies that involve farting and sex with farm animals. Seems about the right category for you.

If that was true, I'd probably have a higher opinion of you. That was a refreshing attempt at a joke from you, though.

Still farting against the wind I see (trying to use analogies that fit your intellect)... Like anyone gives a damn about what others think about them on a message board.

by Thimmy Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:07 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Thimmy wrote:
sportsczy wrote:you really have a fart fetish... according to google, guys with fart fetishes have sexual fantasies that involve farting and sex with farm animals. Seems about the right category for you.

If that was true, I'd probably have a higher opinion of you. That was a refreshing attempt at a joke from you, though.

Still farting against the wind I see (trying to use analogies that fit your intellect)... Like anyone gives a damn about what others think about them on a message board.

I'd be more worried about what people think of you outside of the internet if I were you, but whatever floats your boat, Monsieur Coincé.

by VanDeezNuts Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:09 pm

juve_gigi wrote:How a coach who won 3 CL's in a row can't even be rated by some defies all logic. Don't care who he had on his team. When you win 3 CL's in a row you become a legendary coach. Pretty simple. Anyone who disagrees probably spends most of their time playing FIFA 19 in their mom's basement and is not engaged in the real world...

Ancelotti has 3, Mourinho has 2. The number of CL titles has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. ZZ is a great man manager, but found out pretty quickly he was no longer able to motivate RM last season in the league. When he had to rely on his "tactics," and his coaching he didn't do so well.

Obviously I think he would be an improvement on Mourinho, but the main problem he would have is that he would have a way worse squad than he had with RM, but the expectations would be about the same. United want a manager to come in and win the league, and do well in CL. I don't think ZZ can do that with this squad. Even though they are under performing under Mou, there are serious issues- namely the entire back line, particularly LB and RB spots.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:14 pm

Not to mention that Zidane inherited a team which was already CL winner, and was one of the the best squad ever european football, with one of the best player ever. Zidane did not exactly "built" madrid into champions. But he leveraged our prime at an insane level.

I love Zidane but i want to see him do it differently and win with another team.

by sportsczy Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:41 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:Not to mention that Zidane inherited a team which was already CL winner, and was one of the the best squad ever european football, with one of the best player ever. Zidane did not exactly "built" madrid into champions. But he leveraged our prime at an insane level.

I love Zidane but i want to see him do it differently and win with another team.

According to whom Nick. Before these last 3 CLs... who in their right mind had Madrid as "one of the best squads ever".

by Doc Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:50 pm

I really do hope Nick is just being hyperbolic in that one as we certainly didn't have one of the best squads ever when Zidane was hired but we did have a fine squad nonetheless.

Anyway, being legendary isn't really gonna help Utd win league games so Zidane's status in the game isn't much of a talking point.

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