Except it's the UK and it's been proven... but carry on lol.

no its not

its been proven the substance is russian made, or russian designed, but thats about it. that is no prove for russian goverment involvement. being a marxist catalan, i couldnt care shit about what US or UK have to say about any other country. they are war criminals.

Collblanc wrote:being a marxist

are you serious fam?

Collblanc wrote:its been proven the substance is russian made, or russian designed, but thats about it. that is no prove for russian goverment involvement. being a marxist catalan, i couldnt care shit about what US or UK have to say about any other country. they are war criminals.

Ok:

Lets think together logically shall we?

Skripal was a former Russian agent.✓
The nerve agent used to poison him was Russian made.✓
Russia has a history of poisoning Russians in the UK.✓
Comrade Putin said, on Camera, that traitors deserve death.✓

What more do you want?

prove

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:its been proven the substance is russian made, or russian designed, but thats about it. that is no prove for russian goverment involvement. being a marxist catalan, i couldnt care shit about what US or UK have to say about any other country. they are war criminals.

Ok:

Lets think together logically shall we?

Skripal was a former Russian agent.✓
The nerve agent used to poison him was Russian made.✓
Russia has a history of poisoning Russians in the UK.✓
Comrade Putin said, on Camera, that traitors deserve death.✓

What more do you want?

Actual proof maybe?

Myesyats wrote:

Collblanc wrote:being a marxist

are you serious fam?

I hope he is.

Myesyats wrote:

Collblanc wrote:being a marxist

are you serious fam?

200% - Spinoza's pantheism completes the circle.

zigra wrote:

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:its been proven the substance is russian made, or russian designed, but thats about it. that is no prove for russian goverment involvement. being a marxist catalan, i couldnt care shit about what US or UK have to say about any other country. they are war criminals.

Ok:

Lets think together logically shall we?

Skripal was a former Russian agent.✓
The nerve agent used to poison him was Russian made.✓
Russia has a history of poisoning Russians in the UK.✓
Comrade Putin said, on Camera, that traitors deserve death.✓

What more do you want?

Actual proof maybe?

The facts show a smoking gun.

Just like UK and US attacked a country, killing thousands of innocent people, based on "the facts show a smoking gun". I dont buy it.

Collblanc wrote:Just like UK and US attacked a country, killing thousands of innocent people, based on "the facts show a smoking gun". I dont buy it.

We did it for Oil contracts actually, there was no smoking gun on Iraq. That is why, until Trump appeared, George Bush was the most hated man in the US. He lied to the nation, and people knew it was a lie.

Comparing that to what happened in the UK is nonsensical. This isnt the first time Putin has ordered an attack on a civilian in foreign soil. This is what he does. To think its a false flag screams of conspiracy theories.

Collblanc wrote:

Myesyats wrote:

Collblanc wrote:being a marxist

are you serious fam?

200% - Spinoza's pantheism completes the circle.

I have no words

my god

I really don't like the direction Russia has been going in recent times, particularly all the shit in Ukraine.

This spy poisoning this isn't exactly surprising or even new, but it really is outrageous of Russia to use a highly toxic nerve agent in public like that. (Although I kind of think that if you decide to become a double agent against Russia of all nations, you gotta know it could lead to your death).

However, I just don't see how a WC boycott would do any difference to anything.

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:Just like UK and US attacked a country, killing thousands of innocent people, based on "the facts show a smoking gun". I dont buy it.

To think its a false flag screams of conspiracy theories.

Who is talking "false flag"? I just dont believe in Russian goverment involvement. There is no actual proof for this, so I dont care for narratives or assumptions. Only the proof counts.

Collblanc wrote:

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:Just like UK and US attacked a country, killing thousands of innocent people, based on "the facts show a smoking gun". I dont buy it.

To think its a false flag screams of conspiracy theories.

Who is talking "false flag"? I just dont believe in Russian goverment involvement. There is no actual proof for this, so I dont care for narratives or assumptions. Only the proof counts.

Why? Because Putin is above poisoning people in the UK? Because he is worried about what the world may think after he annexed Crimea? Or after saying on tv that traitors should be killed?

Where is this faith coming from? Putin is a thug. This is a guy who ordered the execution of a rival right across the street from the Kremlin. You dont think he would off a guy in western Europe?

Art Morte wrote:I really don't like the direction Russia has been going in recent times, particularly all the shit in Ukraine.

This spy poisoning this isn't exactly surprising or even new, but it really is outrageous of Russia to use a highly toxic nerve agent in public like that. (Although I kind of think that if you decide to become a double agent against Russia of all nations, you gotta know it could lead to your death).

However, I just don't see how a WC boycott would do any difference to anything.

It would send a message.

Russia very much wants to be seen as a real country. Real countries demand prestige. Imagine if the national team of the world's most famous domestic league told him to fck off? The sponsors, the world, everyone would take note. It would be a slap in the face for a guy who tries to always show off a macho image. What Putin wants is legitimacy. Like the Olympics in Berlin Germany, soft factors such as sports go a long way in promoting legitimacy.

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:Just like UK and US attacked a country, killing thousands of innocent people, based on "the facts show a smoking gun". I dont buy it.

We did it for Oil contracts actually, there was no smoking gun on Iraq. That is why, until Trump appeared, George Bush was the most hated man in the US. He lied to the nation, and people knew it was a lie.

Comparing that to what happened in the UK is nonsensical. This isnt the first time Putin has ordered an attack on a civilian in foreign soil. This is what he does. To think its a false flag screams of conspiracy theories.

People found out it was a lie later. He had massive support at first.

"May 2003
A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 89% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war.[11]"

"Americans overwhelmingly approved of President Bush and his decisions in Iraq during the major combat phase of the war. This number of those approving of Bush’s dealing with Iraq reached 80% in April 2003, its highest point in the war.

But in the summer of 2003, after the major combat had ended but U.S. troops continued to take casualties, those numbers began to wane.[17]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq

zigra wrote:

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:Just like UK and US attacked a country, killing thousands of innocent people, based on "the facts show a smoking gun". I dont buy it.

We did it for Oil contracts actually, there was no smoking gun on Iraq. That is why, until Trump appeared, George Bush was the most hated man in the US. He lied to the nation, and people knew it was a lie.

Comparing that to what happened in the UK is nonsensical. This isnt the first time Putin has ordered an attack on a civilian in foreign soil. This is what he does. To think its a false flag screams of conspiracy theories.

People found out it was a lie later. He had massive support at first.

"May 2003
A Gallup poll made on behalf of CNN and USA Today concluded that 89% of Americans thought the Iraq War was justified, with or without conclusive evidence of illegal weapons. 19% thought weapons were needed to justify the war.[11]"

"Americans overwhelmingly approved of President Bush and his decisions in Iraq during the major combat phase of the war. This number of those approving of Bush’s dealing with Iraq reached 80% in April 2003, its highest point in the war.

But in the summer of 2003, after the major combat had ended but U.S. troops continued to take casualties, those numbers began to wane.[17]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_opinion_in_the_United_States_on_the_invasion_of_Iraq

What was the smoking gun on Iraq?

What you seem to be describing were people, upset about 9/11, still in bloodlust mode. I dont remember seeing anybody knowledgeable ever link the two, or believe there was proof of WMDs. That is why looking for them, once over there, played such a big part in the conversation about it.

Betty La Fea wrote:
What was the smoking gun on Iraq?

What you seem to be describing were people, upset about 9/11, still in bloodlust mode. I dont remember seeing anybody knowledgeable ever link the two, or believe there was proof of WMDs. That is why looking for them, once over there, played such a big part in the conversation about it.

 

3/8/02 - First of Downing Street memos prepared by Tony Blair’s top national security aides. “There is no greater threat now than in recent years that Saddam will use WMD…Washington believes the legal basis for an attack on Iraq already exists…Regime change has no basis in international law.” [Date the public knew: 9/18/04]

3/15/02 - British intel reports that there’s only “sporadic and patchy” evidence of Iraqi WMD. “There is no intelligence on any [biological weapons] production facilities.”

March 02 - Cheney tells Republican senators that the question is no longer if the US will invade Iraq but when.

3/20/02 - Invasion beings
3/24/02 - Saddam “is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time.”—Cheney on CNN

4/4/02 - Blair visits Bush in Crawford to discuss Iraq. Bush tells Britain’s ITV: “I made up my mind that Saddam needs to go.”

9/26/02 - In a Rose Garden speech, Bush says: “The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons.”

Uhhh what

Like, even if you didn't think Russia killed/injured a double agent/those around the double agent in England, it wouldn't make Russia any less of a current dictatorship and detestable regime who are more than worthy of being boycotted if countries decided to do so.

lol what is this. Collblanc is Russian or something?

Putin can't control what Russian patriots decide to do... For example, it just so happened that 10s of thousands of Russian troops in the same units decide to go on vacation in Crimea.  They saw some fighting and thought it would be fun.  What's a leader to do?  Boys will be boys.

In the UK, it just so happened that former Russian spies were poisoned using Russian made chemicals that you need to buy from the Russian government or related entities.  For all we know, Argentinians could have done it.  No pic = never happened.  

Oh... and Russia never meddles in foreign elections, the most recent elections in Russia were completely democratic...  and no Russian athlete ever doped.  It's all a conspiracy from the west.

Elvis is still alive too btw.

There is, as far as I know, no smoking gun or photo evidence that Elvis is dead, so I think you're right sports

You guys are laughing, but this is quite scary to think how widespread the Russian propaganda network is.

He's being paid, but outside of that there are bots which are programmed to spread the same.

I hope they at least pay him enough to visit Barcelona matches.

I mean, some people are just idiots, not all people who spout this stuff are Russian trolls. Most are, but why would Collblanc who you rarely see in the politics section and primarily argues La Liga vs EPL, and has been here for years, be one?

If I were putin this would be the last place I'd infiltrate lmao, unless I was hiring Tom to take somebody out

Betty La Fea wrote:

Collblanc wrote:its been proven the substance is russian made, or russian designed, but thats about it. that is no prove for russian goverment involvement. being a marxist catalan, i couldnt care shit about what US or UK have to say about any other country. they are war criminals.

Ok:

Lets think together logically shall we?

Skripal was a former Russian agent.✓
The nerve agent used to poison him was Russian made.✓
Russia has a history of poisoning Russians in the UK.✓
Comrade Putin said, on Camera, that traitors deserve death.✓

What more do you want?

An outside third party that seeks to escalate tensions between Russia and the west

CBarca wrote:Uhhh what

Like, even if you didn't think Russia killed/injured a double agent/those around the double agent in England, it wouldn't make Russia any less of a current dictatorship and detestable regime who are more than worthy of being boycotted if countries decided to do so.

lol what is this. Collblanc is Russian or something?

Many catalan independence supporters are socialists or Marxists. Many of us believe in cultural relativism and constructivism - meaning no culture (and its government) is "better" then the other and it is a cultural heritage how they behave. Both parties are war criminals. The US and UK propaganda against Russia is horrible imho - who are they to judge and or claim? They, together with Russia, have proven in the past to be not trustworthy. Therefore, I have no trust in the "truth" claimed by UK or US. Following historic dialectism: "truth" is relative, and comes together with narritive. There is no cultural truth, there is no right or wrong. Atleast not in a spectrum, e.g. being more "wrong" then someone else. This is where Spinoza's pantheism / monism comes in place. It is all 1.

I am not pro-Russia, nor am i anti-US or anti-UK. They are all not to be trusted. I just cant believe the anti Russia propaganda that is being slated here, without a critical view on its own countries.