Mr Nick09 wrote:you are right, this is not Arsenal, this is Real Madrid, built with world class players left and right and the main reason of Zidane "success"

And yet, nobody other than zidane has been able to do what he has with all these world class players other than Del Bosque and way back in the 50s...  this is such an excrement of an argument.

sportsczy wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:you are right, this is not Arsenal, this is Real Madrid, built with world class players left and right and the main reason of Zidane "success"

And yet, nobody other than zidane has been able to do what he has with all these world class players other than Del Bosque and way back in the 50s...  this is such an excrement of an argument.

you sound like Zidane built this team out of nothing into CL champions...

News flash Zidane inherited a team with Modric, Kroos, Ramos, CR, Bale and Marcelo in their primes, all world class, all top 3 in their role, CR being possibly just the best european player since Cruyff. he is no Faubert, but it's not bad.

News flash that team had already broken La Decima curse and had CL winning pedigree.

News flash Zidane invented nothing tactically and just carried on with Ancelotti's model. why change a winning recipe right? ask Benitez that dummy

News flash Zidane has not made a single signing that you can call was indispensable to winning more CLs.

If you pick up a diamond covered with dirt from the ground, brush up the dirt, It's still a goddamn diamond. you did not invent it, you did not cut it, you are not responsible for his worth. you are basically just a diamond cleaning maid, not calling zidane a maid but...

this is like calling Di Matteo the best manager in Chelsea's history because he won the CL.

success =/= being the best. this is indeed an excellent argument.

this seems like a continuation of another thread tbh

i don't like getting into the "best manager" stuff, cos all managers need players. but its a bit ungrateful comparing zidane to di matteo. its also a huge reach to say who the best madrid manager is, considering we haven't had anyone who's really had a long run. tbh i don't even know how to rank del bosque

as for the thread's main question, any complaining about madrid is very simple. a league where a draw is like a loss, it isn't uncommon to push the panic button when unnecessary points have been dropped, its that simple.....and also cos it was expected moves will be made in the summer. that's really the gist of it. finito. that's the answer to the thread question

i am not comparing Zidane to Di Matteo, i am simply stating that the answer to criticism against Zidane can't just be that he won two CLs. that's what i find ridiculous

....and i wish they'd scrap the world club cup. "super" cups are so unnecessary

Mr Nick09 wrote:i am not comparing Zidane to Di Matteo, i am simply stating that the answer to criticism against Zidane can't just be that he won two CLs. that's what i find ridiculous

I so hate that. I remember arguing with my friends how Bale was performing bad (it was during Carlo's 2nd season) and their counter argument was that I was ungrateful for the guy that scored the winner in a UCL and CDR final. Kept wondering what does that have to do with his performance that season.

Like I said, we need this sort of distress. Anytime Madrid do well, this section does get dead quiet.

I just find this thread redundant, as tito says we have seen all these arguments on others and consider the source, the guy who started a thread last year saying Zidane was worst coach ever at Madrid.

So I believe he has only been on this forum a year and has created 2 threads, Zidane worst coach ever and now We can’t complain because Zidane is best ever???

Come on Nick, you’re making it seem as if anyone could have taken over Madrid and won 2 CL and LL. That simply isn’t true, as evidenced by the managers we had previous to Zidane, Mourinho was here for years and only managed LL and CDR once, Carlo was going down, Benitez sure couldn’t do it, but Zidane took over and things changed. The players until this season had been more motivated to win than any Madrid team I have seen in my lifetime.

He also made the tactical change I had been crying out for since before Mourinho- add balance to the team. Before Zidane we completely bypassed the midfield and were forced to play a 4-2-4 looking formation for the most part to accommodate James, Bale, Benz, and Ronaldo (Özil and Di Maria before them too). Having a balanced 433 with Casemiro seems obvious and functional in retrospect, but all of our managers bar Carlo the year he played Di Maria as a CM neglected balance in favor of disfunctional over attack.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, ZZ isn’t the best manager but he isn’t the worst, and we’ve certainly had worse recently. He understands football, has shown he can motivate players (though not this season), and he has won everything so he deserves respect. His downfalls are tactical inflexibility, and trusting players who don’t deserve it. IMO you take the good with the bad. It’s bad now, but it can improve, we do need to replace some dead weight though.

Look,what Zidane did in less than 2 years winniing two CLs is something that can hardly be explained with one argument. I think the human connection he has with this group of players was unique and it was a perfect combination of the quality of this team (the diamond) and his man management that made it possible. You say  Benitez did not do it, but i would argue that Pep, Sacchi, Rinus Michaels, [insert great manager] would have failed to achieve the same thing because to me, this team by its past and experience, has that unique human connexion with Zidane, and the history of sports if you study it a bit, is the history of human adventures.

The guy has been around since the Mourinho days and started building a rapport with our key players. He was around in the Carlo days, and likewise in the benitez era. They trained and spoke with Zidane for years in Valdebebas, directly or indirectly, and almost on a daily basis. How many managers you hire can have that level of inside advantage? The way our players respond to him, to who he is etc, it's not tactical, it's just human, and it's not something you can explain by just calling him the best, because there is not enough evidence for that, however impressive his achievements look on paper.

And just to correct one thing you said It's Benitez that first played Modric, Caasemiro and Kroos in midfield together. Although, Benitez was getting blasted because the team was playing poorly and we have had 6 months of Kroos looking incredible as single pivot under Ancelotti so he was getting pressure from everywhere to do the same. he ended up dropping that mid, but he was the first to play it. And even Zidane when he came to Madrid, wanted to force Kroos at DM in his first few games, just as Carlo did in his last year. It's only after a few dodgy, and close games that he realized Casemiro was indispensable and Kroos could not play lone DM. So i like how history is rearranging here to make it look good for Zizou, but that obvious midfield was not so obvious to him when he started coaching us, he had other ideas that just flopped so he had to adjust. Example: Real Madrid vs Atletico, feb 2016, first real test as manager a month after getting the job, this is the line up: keylor, ramos, varane, carv, danilo, Modric, Kroos, Isco, James, Benzema, CR. where is Casemiro? on the bench, and no he was not injured. Result: we lose at home 0-1... and ill let you in on a little secret, guess who is on the team the next game?

Again i am not taking credit away from Zidane, but refusing to criticize what he is doing because he won two CLs thus is the best, is a stupid argument to me.

futbol_bill wrote:I just find this thread redundant, as tito says we have seen all these arguments on others and consider the source, the guy who started a thread last year saying Zidane was worst coach ever at Madrid.

So I believe he has only been on this forum a year and has created 2 threads, Zidane worst coach ever and now We can’t complain because Zidane is best ever???

Bill, I've been here since Goal.com forums! Also please stop saying I'm the one who called Zidane the worst coach ever. Please read the thread again - I said HE IS THE WORST FOOTBALLING COACH EVER, that means HIS PLAYING STYLE IS BAD, not his SUCCESS, WHICH I CLEARLY CREDITED WAS THERE.

If reading is too hard, please go reading comprehension classes pls. It's annoying when people bring it up when they clearly never read the thread in the first place. Or understood it completly.

Atleast I'm reasonable enough to change my mind when he delivers. Different from some of you who wanted CR sold when he has a bad form That's probably the craziest most negative stuff I've read on GL

Nick... that's the biggest load of garbage I have read in a long long time.  You're much better than that. At least when we disagreed in the past, your argument had a logic to them. Now your argument is about... I actually am not sure what it is. Sounds like you're saying that being able to focus and manipulate human emotion is a commodity skill lol.

i have read worse, like you saying that if we sign Fekir we will win la liga for sure...

Where did I say that lol.  Quote me.  I said Fekir is one of the best options in the winter since he's not playing CL AND he's buyable as Lyon will always sell for the right price.  Also said that he definitely has the talent fit into Madrid and he's not a kid.

Keep fishing

Mr Nick09 wrote:i have read worse, like you saying that if we sign Fekir we will win la liga for sure...

sportsczy wrote:Where did I say that lol.  Quote me.  I said Fekir is one of the best options in the winter since he's not playing CL AND he's buyable as Lyon will always sell for the right price.  Also said that he definitely has the talent fit into Madrid and he's not a kid.

Keep fishing

http://www.goallegacy.net/t40971-how-does-it-feel-to-have-lost-la-liga-in-november-guys#1807699

sportsczy wrote:If we pick up Alexis Sanchez, Fekir or Icardi in the winter (we won't), we win La Liga.  Only reason we're behind is that our strikers can't the broad side of a barn all season.

i am petty i know

Isn't saying I called Zidane the worst manager ever fishing doe?

Especially when I said his playing style is the worst I've seen, I never called him the worst manager ever. Even gave him credits for winning alot

BTW interesting fact: Zidane is undefeated in Camp Nou, the first manager ever to be so in the span of three games. For those who believe La Liga is done

Theo, Vallejo, Llorente, Ceballos and Mayoral played less than 550 minutes this season