Don't mistake the title, I do like a good discussion. That's why I joined the forum in the first place.

But doesn't anyone else this forum has gotten DEPRESSING as fack?

I don't want to point anybody out in particular because I find that too rude to do so, but I do find the "Zidane is tactically inept" so wrong on many levels. Again, this is just an example, not a name call on somebody.

Just ask yourself, if Zidane is so horrible tactician, how come players like Modric have came out and given him his respects for being tactically astute? And why does he have the lockerrooms respect? Don't @ me, if you're saying it's because "he is Zidane and he is a respected figure", if that was the case, Maradonna would be the most respected manager in the game. The players respect him because tactically he is good, but as a manager he has weaknesses. He is naive, he seems to trust the wrong players, bad subs etc. But he is a new manager, these things will get better with time.

Yeah I know, I'm a critic too. But atleast I can admit my wrongs, move on, and respect one of the best managers in a long time I've seen in Real Madrid. None can be perfect every season, despite what you think. Even SAF showed weaknesses. If he flops next season, I'd call for his head too, but right now, after 2 Back to Back CL's - I can give him the benefit of the doubt.

Arent u the guy who called him the worst Madrid manager ever last summer? http://www.goallegacy.net/t39876-in-my-history-zidane-s-real-madrid-is-the-worst-footballing-side-i-ve-seen

Lol, there is nothing wrong with changing your mind but if you go from extremes to extremes then you are just a flip flopper

Mr Nick09 wrote:Arent u the guy who called him the worst Madrid manager ever last summer? http://www.goallegacy.net/t39876-in-my-history-zidane-s-real-madrid-is-the-worst-footballing-side-i-ve-seen

Lol, there is nothing wrong with changing your mind but if you go from extremes to extremes then you are just a flip flopper

Lmao.

Guest7, I really don't see the point of this thread, you're obviously no stranger to negative views considering your thread deeming Zidane the worst RM manager of all time, so if you now have a positive view on Zidane argue it in the threads that exist. There are people on both sides, I'm probably in the middle some where, personally. No need to call out the negative posters, just use your words to convince them.

Don't think I've ever written these words before, but I agree with @guest7

Lighten up ffs. You need to smile more. You've got such pretty smiles.

My criticism was that under Zidane we were playing horrible football.

Since then, his football has evolved alot and he surprisingly is playing beautiful football but we're not converting these chances to be fair.

Yeah, I admit it, I was wrong. But calling it a flip flopper? why? things change, that's the way life, football, everything works. Zidane DID play horrible football... does he still do it? no. Are my criticisms to some point valid? Yes I do still think so. We cross awful alot which makes it less entertaining and we still have a horrible defence. At the time I thought I was contributing to a good discussion.

We're not the only fanbase to do this btw, but I try to avoid other sections because I don't like the moderating on this forum (too much trolling, little substance, subjective moderation at times) so I'm sticking to the Madrid section for now (but don't respond to this part cuz it's depressing to talk about it, just making it clear that I didn't want to be rude and call Madrid fans the worst of the bunch)

Hapless_Hans wrote:Don't think I've ever written these words before, but I agree with @guest7

Lighten up ffs. You need to smile more. You've got such pretty smiles.

I do have a lovely smile.

When the data and circumstances prove your opinion wrong, you change your opinion. That's being reasonable... not a flip flopper.

Went through the same thing with Benz and Ronaldo myself.

Doc wrote:

Hapless_Hans wrote:Don't think I've ever written these words before, but I agree with @guest7

Lighten up ffs. You need to smile more. You've got such pretty smiles.

I do have a lovely smile.

I'm sure you can't but light up any room, when you let your beautiful spirit shine through your smile

Hans, who is the guy in the suit in your image? He is almost an exact replicate of a guy I know. A native Brit who lives in Mexico!

futbol_bill wrote:Hans, who is the guy in the suit in your image? He is almost an exact replicate of a guy I know. A native Brit who lives in Mexico!

You mean Trapattoni? In the avatar?

Yeah, it's uncanny how much they look alike!

It's Trapattoni and Matthäus at Inter back in 1990 or thereabouts

GL has always been like that. U only notice NOW?

And you're part of the problem I'm afraid. As is most on this thread.

Isco: Zidane the only one to play me in my best position at Real Madrid

guest7 wrote:But doesn't anyone else this forum has gotten DEPRESSING as fack?

Well, yeah. Getting humiliated at White Hart Lane, losing to newly promoted sides and being 8 points behind Barcelona in November can be a little depressing to some people.

I don't want to point anybody out in particular because I find that too rude to do so, but I do find the "Zidane is tactically inept" so wrong on many levels. Again, this is just an example, not a name call on somebody.

Please, tell us why is it "so wrong on so many levels" to think that Zidane is "tactically inept"? Real Madrid look like a bunch of passionless, talentless amateurs with no clear strategy or game plan, struggling against even the weakest of sides and delivering fifty-feet-of-crap-under-the-ground level football with a nuisance of a CF and an injury prone winger. I'm sure there's plenty of arguments here to build a case against Z's and his questionable tactical approach. If there's any...

Just ask yourself, if Zidane is so horrible tactician, how come players like Modric have came out and given him his respects for being tactically astute?

Seriously? What did you really expect him to say? That Z is clueless and doesn't have a bleeding idea what he's doing? Even if he believed that, he wouldn't say it publicly. Come on, let's be a little serious here.

And why does he have the lockerrooms respect?

Because he's a brilliant man-manager. A tactically clueless manager, but great at man management.

Don't @ me, if you're saying it's because "he is Zidane and he is a respected figure", if that was the case, Maradonna would be the most respected manager in the game. The players respect him because tactically he is good, but as a manager he has weaknesses. He is naive, he seems to trust the wrong players, bad subs etc. But he is a new manager, these things will get better with time.

If you're going to set the bar so low and compare him with Maradonna the manager then we really have a problem here. You want to compare him with someone, try Guardiola. Tactically, there's no comparison because the latter would wipe the floor with Z any day of the week. Z is loved and respected because he's friends with them and he's trying his utmost best to keep the big names happy to avoid any rift in the lockeroom. That's why he keeps on playing Benzema even though he's utterly useless and still has blind faith and a guaranteed starting spot for Bale. Isco could grow freaking wings and fly to God and back and that would still not be enough for him to displace Bale.

Also, the fact that you think he's tactically astute while admitting in the same breath that he makes bad subs makes your claim nonsensical and massively contradictory. Him sucking at subs is one of the many, many, many, (god) so many reasons why we believe he has no idea what to do out there.

Yeah I know, I'm a critic too. But atleast I can admit my wrongs, move on, and respect one of the best managers in a long time I've seen in Real Madrid.

We're grateful to him for the trophies he's won, but labeling him one of the best is a crime against humanity. His success had a lot to do with luck (countless last-min goals, individual brilliance,...). Now though, after Ramos' last-min goals went dry, the individual brilliance of his players faded, we started to see Z for his true self - which is a a tactically clueless brilliant man-manager who heavily depend on the individual brilliance of his players and luck (and oh don't forget crosses) to save the day. That and the fact that he sold the CF who got him the goals that won him the league last season and decided to stick with Benzema instead and have no decent back-up. Brilliant indeed.

None can be perfect every season, despite what you think. Even SAF showed weaknesses. If he flops next season, I'd call for his head too, but right now, after 2 Back to Back CL's - I can give him the benefit of the doubt.

You're right, no one can be perfect every single season. But there's a level that you should never go below. There was no excuse to lose at home to Betis or away to Girona. There was no excuse to be outplayed by Spurs. There's no excuse to be struggling this much even though we have one of the most talented squads in world football. There's no excuse to keep Benzema. There's no excuse for not strengthening the squad last summer.

There's no excuse to be playing this bad while wearing the white of Madrid.

So to circle back to your main question; I can't speak for everybody, but I promise one thing: I'll never stop raining down the criticism on Z's bald head as long as he's making bad decisions and making us play like crap. You have my word, mate

Well in terms of success, he is one of the best ever at Real Madrid. That's just fact. How many other Real Madrid manager have won 2 CLs and at least 1 La Liga? The list is very very very short.

no one can take the trophies away from him but being successful =/= being the best

Seems like the only way success is measured at truly top clubs.  This isn't Arsenal. Nobody cares if you play really pretty and win nothing.

you are right, this is not Arsenal, this is Real Madrid, built with world class players left and right and the main reason of Zidane "success"

I'll bitch if I want to. Shit. Can't tell me what to do.

Also, if Zidane doing dumb things, can't expect us to be all happy go lucky about it and not everyone views him like Sports does. Also also, complaining helps keep the forum busy. When things too nice, we barely say much.

I just feel like if you are passionate about the club, which players like Ramos are, you wouldn’t respect your manager if his tactics were shite.

But you are right to some extent DoC, I can’t lie when Real Madrid lose it gets even more depressing. I should just avoid this forum when we lose because it’s really the last thing you wanna see when you are already depressed about a loss

OK was on phone before so couldn't respond properly. I'm home now

DoC wrote:Please, tell us why is it "so wrong on so many levels" to think that Zidane is "tactically inept"? Real Madrid look like a bunch of passionless, talentless amateurs with no clear strategy or game plan, struggling against even the weakest of sides and delivering fifty-feet-of-crap-under-the-ground level football with a nuisance of a CF and an injury prone winger. I'm sure there's plenty of arguments here to build a case against Z's and his questionable tactical approach. If there's any...

I don't agree with you here if we're speaking strictly tactics. Real Madrid are playing good football, but we're not converting the chances. Then Zidane being naive, trusting the wrong players etc... Yeah I agree. He is being dumb at times but he is a new manager and he will improve. When he started coaching us if you remember we were playing bad football but with time and patience we started playing better! Give him another year please. Definitely deserves the benefit of the doubt.

DoC wrote:Seriously? What did you really expect him to say? That Z is clueless and doesn't have a bleeding idea what he's doing? Even if he believed that, he wouldn't say it publicly. Come on, let's be a little serious here.

Then be quiet. No need to praise somebody you don't value. None held a gun to his head. He wanted to because he rates his work.

Then about the Maradona and Guardiola comparison, I don't think you understood me really. I meant that managers don't get respect for being legends, they get respect for being good coaches! None risks a career/trophies for a friend, please get that in your head. Zidane is respected because his tactics and how we play is valued highly.

Don't believe me? This was Kroos after a loss to Barcelona!

https://twitter.com/tonikroos/status/856261110542061568

Also worth noting, when I critisized Zidane we were winning atleast. I'm not throwing punches at the team when we're losing. You guys are no different from the whistles in Bernabeu tbh.

So it makes more sense to criticize when we’re doing well and praise them when we’re doing poorly? Is this opposite land?

vanDEEZ wrote:So it makes more sense to criticize when we’re doing well and praise them when we’re doing poorly? Is this opposite land?

It's called perfectionism and it's a perfectly fine flaw to have

I'd say it has negative aspects in real life but in a club like Real Madrid, the biggest and richest club, or somewhat close to that, being a perfectionist is hardly a flaw.

Mr Nick09 wrote:you are right, this is not Arsenal, this is Real Madrid, built with world class players left and right and the main reason of Zidane "success"

And yet, nobody other than zidane has been able to do what he has with all these world class players other than Del Bosque and way back in the 50s...  this is such an excrement of an argument.