Re: Juventus 2017/2018 Serie A and Coppa Italia thread

[Luca]

Minutes aren’t so easily given on this team but man, Bernardeschi has so much upside. He has technique, size, strength, speed and creativity.

He’s a wonderful signing. I was really happy to see him start at #10 spot.

I’m hopeful by the second half of our season he’s a starter

[Warrior]

Bernardeschi as a starter is what makes sense out of everything else ffs, Max needs to give more chance to talented players. If you are intrinsically better you deserve to play more.

After this defeat, Allegri's dogmatism is over for good now, i think. Hopefully it was his wake up call.

[DeviAngel]

This is the time to go back to the basics....

-Benatia--Rugani--Chiellini--
-Cuad-Matuidi-Marchisio-Pjanic-Sandro-
-Dybala-Higuain

or switch to 4-3-3

--Matuidi-Marchisio-Pjanic-
--Dybala-Higuain-Berna/Costa-

3 man midfield against Barca is a must. No more alibis.

[Luca]

Oh god, if we play a 3-5-2 this season I'll pass out. Please, never again

[DeviAngel]

Oh god, if we play a 3-5-2 this season I'll pass out. Please, never again

In times like these we must go back to the basics bro, we are playing like shit for 2 months already. Our gameplan and tactics are found out.

Reports keep saying that Allegri is considering 4-3-3 and 3-4-2-1

[Luca]

I don't think we have the defending quality, the midfield quality and the depth to play 3 at the back with 3 central midfielders

Also, it means Allegri's lover Mandzukic is dropped

The 3-5-2 also has no place for Bernardeschi or Douglas Costa and this is a direction we should avoid at all costs. We need more of these players, not less

[DeviAngel]

I don't think we have the defending quality, the midfield quality and the depth to play 3 at the back with 3 central midfielders

Also, it means Allegri's lover Mandzukic is dropped

The 3-5-2 also has no place for Bernardeschi or Douglas Costa and this is a direction we should avoid at all costs. We need more of these players, not less

I know that but until our team is stabilized there is no point in playing them when the team is dysfunctional. We have to go to the basics and we have the midfield depth for 3 man midfield don't forget Bentan and Khedira they are good enough for subs/starters (Bentan).

[Luca]

I'd argue changing the formation so radically would only bring instability rather than stability.

Lets say we do switch to the 3-5-2, that's giving up on Douglas and Bernardeschi. If it goes well, we lose out on players like this. If it goes poorly, we have to then switch again.

I don't really think the formation is a problem, not a problem to this degree anyways

[DeviAngel]

I'd argue changing the formation so radically would only bring instability rather than stability.

Lets say we do switch to the 3-5-2, that's giving up on Douglas and Bernardeschi. If it goes well, we lose out on players like this. If it goes poorly, we have to then switch again.

I don't really think the formation is a problem, not a problem to this degree anyways

Pjanic and Dybala only preform when Matuidi is playing, 4-3-3 is great solution I think and we have the depth for it...and ffs convert Cuadrado to RB.

[Luca]

4-3-3 I'll buy, we've already played that before this season. Against Barcelona, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we play a 3 man midfield

Pjanic really dictates how our attack looks. He's been brilliant most of the time, today was definitely one of his worst games. Dybala was a difference maker when he came on for sure

[DeviAngel]

4-3-3 I'll buy, we've already played that before this season. Against Barcelona, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we play a 3 man midfield

Pjanic really dictates how our attack looks. He's been brilliant most of the time, today was definitely one of his worst games. Dybala was a difference maker when he came on for sure

4-3-1-2 is good option too, don't forget D.Costa is an AM naturally. Berna behind HD ain't bad.

[rincon]

Pjanic and Dybala only perform with Matuidi? Pjanic and Matuidi have barely even played together. They must have only started like 3 games together max. Matuidi isn't making anyone perform better so far.

[Luca]

I would love to see something like:

Higuain-Dybala
Bernardeschi
Matuidi-Marchisio-Pjanic
Sandro-Chiellini-Rugani-MdS
Buffon

Personally, that's my FIFA line up

Back to reality, Cuadrado has been our most impressive attacker outside of Higuain and Dybala this season

Douglas Costa definitely needs minutes. He represents a significant investment, much like Bernardeschi, yet with a few more years of experience and experience at a top club, Douglas Costa should be playing right now

Mandzukic, what happens? Does his minutes go from 90 to 0? Difficult. Extremely difficult

Those are the questions, central to the attack but with all of the attacking talent this team has, it is what will dictate the formation surely

[DeviAngel]

I would love to see something like:

Higuain-Dybala
Bernardeschi
Matuidi-Marchisio-Pjanic
Sandro-Chiellini-Rugani-MdS
Buffon

Personally, that's my FIFA line up

Back to reality, Cuadrado has been our most impressive attacker outside of Higuain and Dybala this season

Douglas Costa definitely needs minutes. He represents a significant investment, much like Bernardeschi, yet with a few more years of experience and experience at a top club, Douglas Costa should be playing right now

Mandzukic, what happens? Does his minutes go from 90 to 0? Difficult. Extremely difficult

Those are the questions, central to the attack but with all of the attacking talent this team has, it is what will dictate the formation surely

that's the formation I love, Allegri sees Pjaca as vice- Higuain. Formation and tactics need to change...Allegri must realize that this team is build to attack and outscore not to defend.

Pjanic and Dybala only perform with Matuidi? Pjanic and Matuidi have barely even played together. They must have only started like 3 games together max. Matuidi isn't making anyone perform better so far.

Oh come one we had Khedira and Marchisio injured until 2 weeks ago Matuidi - Pjanic were playing together for more than a month..

Matuidi started being bad when the team started flopping

[Luca]

Allegri is probably the most tactically flexible manager in Europe, most definitely in Italy.

He inherited a team playing a 3-5-2, built for it even and in the space of only a couple years we have seen many different formations. Last season, halfway through it, he made a transition to a 4-2-3-1 with Mandzukic on the left and Cuadrado on the right. We had one sub for this formation and it was Pjaca ( ). In the end, the lack of depth killed us.

We are outscoring our opponents. We've scored 37 times in Serie A, last season we scored 77 in 38 games. Were on pace to score 25-30 goals more than last season (and concede 15 more).

What I don't like is the chances we make, they're still too few and far between and that means if we miss them then we can have a result like today because our defence isn't as good to bail us out. We'll score them more often than not but today is an example where we don't finish (for the first 90 minutes). A team of this attacking talent should create some more chances but when one side of the field is Mandzukic and Asamoah, then it makes a bit more sense

[rincon]

Pjanic and Dybala only perform with Matuidi? Pjanic and Matuidi have barely even played together. They must have only started like 3 games together max. Matuidi isn't making anyone perform better so far.

Oh come one we had Khedira and Marchisio injured until 2 weeks ago Matuidi - Pjanic were playing together for more than a month..

Matuidi started being bad when the team started flopping

Just checked and they started together literally just 3 times in the league (Chievo, Sassuolo and Torino) plus the Barca loss. He definitely has had no impact on Pjanic.

Matuidi has been bad from the beginning. So far he has shown that he is not good in the double pivot. He losses his position way too much and he ends up not contributing much in attack either except when he goes all the way wide left to stretch play. Which is good to go forward but given that he is supposed to be in a midfield 2, it leaves us terribly exposed.

Marchisio, Khedira, Pjanic and Bentancur have interpreted the role way better.

He'll be much more useful in the future when/if he adapts, we play a mid 3, or we play a 3-4-3.

The midfield 3 is obviously his role. In a 3-4-3 he would have cover so he could roam and do his thing better, like Kessie at Atalanta.

[rincon]

Our run of fixtures until the break.

Barcelona
Crotone
@Napoli
@Olympiacos
Inter
@Bologna
Roma
@Verona
@Cagliari

RIP us.

[Kaladin]

If Allegri makes 4th and reaches CL QFs, would you keep him?

[Luca]

If Allegri makes 4th and reaches CL QFs, would you keep him?

I don't think so, I'd be surprised if he didn't resign as he was very close to doing so after the CL final

4th for this Juventus team, as talented as it is, would be viewed as quite the failure

QFs in the CL is too hard to judge blindly, if that elimination comes against a team like Bayern or Real then its a different impact than against Besiktas of course

[rincon]

In terms of results, yes. Allegri for me has earned it. 3 leagues, 3 coppas, a supercup, 2 cl finals in 3 seasons is a top job. He developed our players nicely as well, pretty much everyone has improved under him. Except Sturaro.

The question would be if he is the one to take Juve forward. So far the answer seems like a resounding yes from the club and from himself. If we find that he doesn't have the energy or ideas for the future of Juve then its time to go regardless of the position we finish in next summer.

[rincon]

If Allegri does go, then its Inzaghi time for me. Its basically him or EDF for me but Inzaghi is more available.

[rincon]

Something that can affect Max's future imo is his handling of the young players that Marotta (and Allegri) have decided to build the new Juve around. Like if none of Bernardeschi, Pjaca and Costa make it for example. Same for Rugani and De Sciglio. If he falls back too much on his "guarantees" (Khedira, Mandzukic, Cuadrado) then I imagine that on the event of low season finish, he would be out.

He repeatedly says that they are the future of the team, so Allegri has to make it happen. If he does, and things look promising even after a QF exit and a CL place finish, I see him continuing.

[Luca]

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer him to stay in the given scenario. I just mean he was really close to resigning after the CL final. So, I'd imagine failure like that this season would not encourage him to keep on. After all, a lot of big personalities will be out of the club even so he may not be up for the new Juve

[rincon]

He didn't stay to have a second chance to win CL this season, he said he wants to build the future of Juve. We'll see, no way to really know. It has to be exhausting to manage Juve for a 5th season and forward.

[Luca]

Not so much about the CL, but losing out on the CL, finishing fourth (like ES's hypothetical purported), it would be a lot but I'm always an Allegri fan, my favourite manager ever

http://www.espnfc.com/juventus/story/3176744/juventus-coach-allegri-almost-resigned-after-champions-league-final-defeat

"So now we just continue to work. We'll try to make it to opening night at La Scala once again. The good thing about the opera is that there's a new show every year."

He's just such a GOAT manager

[Warrior]

If Allegri makes 4th and reaches CL QFs, would you keep him?

No
CL QFs mean jack shit, it's not sufficient. 4th in the league would be a disaster.

But i don't expect this to happen because this team is scudetto material so silver medal is the very least acceptable result. The scenario you propose would be 100% Allegri's fault.

Something that can affect Max's future imo is his handling of the young players that Marotta (and Allegri) have decided to build the new Juve around. Like if none of Bernardeschi, Pjaca and Costa make it for example. Same for Rugani and De Sciglio. If he falls back too much on his "guarantees" (Khedira, Mandzukic, Cuadrado) then I imagine that on the event of low season finish, he would be out.

That's exactly what i mean when i say "dogmatism". I also add the double pivot that suits none of our current midfielders, yet that's another debate we've had many times. To me 4-2-3-1 is a "dogma" because Allegri elaborate this strategy a year ago, and while it doesn't fit our squad anymore (and competitors did ajustments), Allegri still always come back to it. As if Wingdzukic 4-2-3-1 was a pillar of positiveness in his mind

Don't get me wrong, i rate Max as a top tactical manager but it seems 4-2-3-1 deludes him a bit. Wtf

But i realized dogmatic ain't the word i've been looking for, STUBBORN is more appropriate. I am fan of every player getting some play time to prove themselves, and i am also a fan of seeing the most talented being starters.

The defeat vs Samp, i think Allegri took it personal, changes will start to happen now.

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