Re: The Lionel Messi Appreciation Thread & Fan Club III

[zigra]

Someone explain to me why Messi won it this year....  really, what did Barca or Argentina achieve.

One of the Liverpool players should have won it... and easily.

Barcelona won the spanish league. Liverpool didn't win the english league.

[Myesyats]

Someone explain to me why Messi won it this year....  really, what did Barca or Argentina achieve.

One of the Liverpool players should have won it... and easily.

As has been said many times before, it would have been a joke for Van Dijk to have won it before a genius like Messi.

@Hala said it perfectly - nobody stands out as much as Messi.

What did Mbaappe achieve to be in top 6? That little weasel.

[Harmonica]

Someone explain to me why Messi won it this year....  really, what did Barca or Argentina achieve.

One of the Liverpool players should have won it... and easily.

I could start with these

[Robespierre]

Guys, it's the Balon d'or.
It SHOULD award the player who stand out during season, not who is the best player on paper.
Otherwise we give him to Messi for next 5 years without even watching matches.
Otherwise Ronaldo Luis Nazario Da Lima would have won also in 96 and not Mathias Sammer
Van Dijk was the proper name for me , and it was easily the good year to give him to a defender. Defenders must have same dignity than CF.
His leadership, his record of "avoided" dribblings, his ability to defend on open pitch even in numerical inferiority - frequent situation for an offensive team as Liverpool - and that's possible why you've a defender as him... Dutch was the key player .
At same time Messi had a great season but not special, because "limitated " to Liga. Knocked out after a tragic night at Liverpool, disappointed again in Copa America. It had not be his year .

[zigra]

Guys, it's the Balon d'or.
It SHOULD award the player who stand out during season, not who is the best player on paper.
Otherwise we give him to Messi for next 5 years without even watching matches.
Otherwise Ronaldo Luis Nazario Da Lima would have won also in 96 and not Mathias Sammer  
Van Dijk was the proper name for me , and it was easily the good year to give him to a defender. Defenders must have same dignity than CF.
His leadership, his record of "avoided" dribblings, his ability to defend on open pitch even in numerical inferiority - frequent situation for an offensive team as Liverpool - and that's possible why you've a defender as him... Dutch was the key player .
At same time Messi had a great season but not special, because "limitated " to Liga. Knocked out after a tragic night at Liverpool, disappointed again in Copa America. It had not be his year .

No that's factually wrong. Messi was outstanding in the league but he definitely stood out in the champions league as well. 12 goals in 10 matches (including a brace in the semis) and a completely ridiculous 8.77 rating. No player was even close to his level. And that's not on paper, that's his performance on the pitch. He was so far ahead of EVERY SINGLE player out there it's not even funny.

Besides - it's not like van Dijk won a crazy amount of trophies. Did he win the league with Liverpool? No. Did he win the domestic cups? No. Did he win a trophy with the dutch national team? No. The CL is the most important club trophy but people need to stop disrespecting the rest of club football as much as they do. Winning the league is a massive achievement.

[Thimmy]

I have no qualms about Messi winning it based on his performance level, but it does irk me a little bit that the award returns to Messi this year. Modric winning it made little sense, considering he wasn’t the top performer for his national team, nor his club team that season. It was only natural to conclude that they gave it to him in order to end the Messi/CR7 duopoly. Evidently, that wasn’t the case. As much as Messi may be the top performer, the whole Ballon D’or spectacle isn’t even slightly interesting anymore. And I think it’s a shame, because there was a time when I was younger, that I was genuinely excited to find out who would win it.

[Harmonica]

I have no qualms about Messi winning it based on his performance level, but it does irk me a little bit that the award returns to Messi this year. Modric winning it made little sense, considering he wasn’t the top performer for his national team, nor his club team that season. It was only natural to conclude that they gave it to him in order to end the Messi/CR7 duopoly. Evidently, that wasn’t the case. As much as Messi may be the top performer, the whole Ballon D’or spectacle isn’t even slightly interesting anymore. And I think it’s a shame, because there was a time when I was younger, that I was genuinely excited to find out who would win it.

Modric won WC Golden Ball. Also with that kind of thinking, you could also say it's karma from 2013.

[Myesyats]

Modric the sewer rat won last year and you plebs are complaining about Messi winning this year ffs

[Thimmy]

All I’m saying is that the award returning to either CR7 or Messi is about as interesting as to predict which team will win Ligue 1. Modric winning it made absolutely no sense. I can’t rationalize why he deserved to win it that year, but it was refreshing to see someone else than CR7 and Messi get it, for once.

[Harmonica]

All I’m saying is that the award returning to either CR7 or Messi is about as interesting as to predict which team will win Ligue 1. Modric winning it made absolutely no sense. I can’t rationalize why he deserved to win it that year, but it was refreshing to see someone else than CR7 and Messi get it, for once.

I don't think interesting is one of the measurements, in the best performing player award. Messi led the whole World in goals, assists, dribbles and chances created I think, Dijk wasn't even close the best in any of the defensive categories, even in the Fog league. It's absurd to even suggest Messi didn't perform the best.

[Harmonica]

OCD finally cured.

[Kebab]

Guys, France football is not giving the award. its journalists who vote, and they supposed to know everything about football.

Before CL semifinal almost everyone said Messi already won ballon dor no matter what happens next. He was absolutely amazing all season except 1 match, and he was good in that match too. At individual level he was alone and nobody came close. I feel for Van Dijk he looks really a humble and respectful guy, but in reality Messi was Messi and got his award. Van Dijk should receive player with hottest wife award which is better than any ballon dor

[rincon]

Guys, it's the Balon d'or.
It SHOULD award the player who stand out during season, not who is the best player on paper.
Otherwise we give him to Messi for next 5 years without even watching matches.
Otherwise Ronaldo Luis Nazario Da Lima would have won also in 96 and not Mathias Sammer
Van Dijk was the proper name for me , and it was easily the good year to give him to a defender. Defenders must have same dignity than CF.
His leadership, his record of "avoided" dribblings, his ability to defend on open pitch even in numerical inferiority - frequent situation for an offensive team as Liverpool - and that's possible why you've a defender as him... Dutch was the key player .
At same time Messi had a great season but not special, because "limitated " to Liga. Knocked out after a tragic night at Liverpool, disappointed again in Copa America. It had not be his year .

There is nothing on paper here, it's about performances. If Messi's season doesn't seem "special" then it's just because of the absurd standards that Messi has made us used to.

in 2019 Messi has 8 goals and 5 assists in 11 CL games. Barcelona getting beat by Liverpool has nothing to do with Messi, who scored a brace against them in the semifinal. And a brace in the quarter final, and a brace in the R16. Scoring a brace per round in the knockouts is pretty great.

in 2019 he has more goals and assists than matches played. That's on top of how much he actually contributes besides the goal output.

[danyjr]

I think people like Thimmy are just exhausted by watching Messi and Ronaldo's duopoly year in year out and want to see fresh faces despite them not being as good even. I think in 10-20 years we'll all look back at this time and realise Messi and Ronaldo's true greatness, the consistency to perform week in week out for such a long time, the ridiculous stats and the legacy they left behind.

Can't imagine the next generations will even come close to the heights these two achieved. There will be players who will be on form for a season or two and not even in contention for other years. Players like Neymar, Hazard, Salah or the younger ones like Sané, Mbappé or Sancho can't even play consistently well for a couple of season let alone throughout their career. One can't stress how difficult longevity is to achieve.

I see the same trend in tennis with Federer, Nadal and Đoković who still keep winning despite being well into their thirties. I sometimes wonder if the mentality of the younger generations have changed from the older ones, if the priority is no longer being the best at your trade but how much money you make, how much social media attention you receive etc.

[Robespierre]

For goals it's been created the Golden Shoe on purpose .
For me every discussion that begins with " goals, assists" is mistaken.
Why this penalizes other roles.
and GK , defenders, midfielders should stay from a  position of equality.
Every role is important, has own dignity in football, Van Dijk has simply other tasks, and he fullfilled them in a perfect way for the whole year.
Yes Messi played a brillaint Uefa Champions League too, but semi-final seriously.. except Barca fans ( perhaps) who's going to remember Barcellona for reaching semi-final and not because they were knocked out for 4-0 ? That's enough to not give an award for a Barca player this year.  
No one wants minimize leagues ( Liverpool played also a great Premier League tbh but I accept they don't have won it. ANyway just a loss and just 22 goals scored - that represents another Van Dijk sign) but Balon D'Or is an international award so , correctly, the International  context precedes the national context normally . And it was the year of Liverpool.

[farfan]

No controversy here, Messi was the frontrunner since April.

Had Salah replicated his 2018 form and capped it off with an AFCON win, he would've been the logical winner.

[Myesyats]

[danyjr]

That's enough to not give an award for a Barca player this year.

Depends on the criteria from which the Ballon d'or winner is chosen. IMHO the award should be given to the player who has consistently had a big impact on his team's performances and success.

Now the facts: Messi is the reason Barcelona were in the CL semis and won La Liga. Time after time he saved Barcelona's ass from utter humiliation last season, as he does today. Ask Madrid fans how many times he has single-handedly won Barça in the clásicos despite the Catalans being second best through most of the match. Even for Argentina, he was our top performer by miles in practically every match he started last season.

Could Liverpool not achieve what they achieved last season without Van Dijk? Probably not, but I could name a few others in the team who were just as instrumental to Liverpool's success last term. And he was not really stand out at Netherlands national team at all, probably not even their best performer.

[S]

I don't understand why there is a debate on this. This year's Ballon D'or winner is the least debatable in a quite a while tbh.

Liverpool are a great team managed by a world class coach with top performers in almost every position. Heck you can make argument for the likes of Alisson and Mane who were every bit as good as Van Dijk.. It comes as no surprise that 4 Liverpool players were in the top 10 in the Balon D'or voting list.

Van Dijk had a huge impact for Liverpool last year but Messi has carried/still carrying an average Barca lead by an average coach to the league. In fact this very same Messi destroyed Pool lead by this mythical superhuman defender we have all come to know of only to be let down by his defense in the return leg.

It seems a bit silly to me seeing Pool fans, PL media hyping Van Dijk's impact to the extent that they're ending up downplaying the contributions of the rest of the team of which has been significant. Ridiculous if you ask me.

Unnecessary and undeserved hype.

[Robespierre]

Well I am seeing De Ligt hyped for much less

[S]

If there is to be any 'standout' individual from Liverpool, it's got to be Klopp.

That guy is making guys like Wijnaldum look like a million bucks ffs.

There will be no debate for coach of the year for sure.

[farfan]

I don't understand why there is a debate on this. This year's Ballon D'or winner is the least debatable in a quite a while tbh.

Liverpool are a great team managed by a world class coach with top performers in almost every position. Heck you can make argument for the likes of Alisson and Mane who were every bit as good as Van Dijk.. It comes as no surprise that 4 Liverpool players were in the top 10 in the Balon D'or voting list.

Van Dijk had a huge impact for Liverpool last year but Messi has carried/still carrying an average Barca lead by an average coach to the league. In fact this very same Messi destroyed Pool lead by this mythical superhuman defender we have all come to know of only to be let down by his defense in the return leg.

It seems a bit silly to me seeing Pool fans, PL media hyping Van Dijk's impact to the extent that they're ending up downplaying the contributions of the rest of the team of which has been significant. Ridiculous if you ask me.

Unnecessary and undeserved hype.

They also forget Fabinho. Probably as much of a game-changer for Pool as Van Dijk.

[S]

Well I am seeing De Ligt hyped for much less

I don't know what's that got to do with this argument. De Ligt is not contesting for the Ballon D'or.

Even the Kopa trophy he won yesterday can be less disputed/debated compared to Van Dijk competing with Messi, in which there is a clear winner.

[rincon]

For goals it's been created the Golden Shoe on purpose .
For me every discussion that begins with " goals, assists" is mistaken.
Why this penalizes other roles.
and GK , defenders, midfielders should stay from a  position of equality.
Every role is important, has own dignity in football, Van Dijk has simply other tasks, and he fullfilled them in a perfect way for the whole year.
Yes Messi played a brillaint Uefa Champions League too, but semi-final seriously.. except Barca fans ( perhaps) who's going to remember Barcellona for reaching semi-final and not because they were knocked out for 4-0 ? That's enough to not give an award for a Barca player this year.  
No one wants minimize leagues ( Liverpool played also a great Premier League tbh but I accept they don't have won it. ANyway just a loss and just 22 goals scored - that represents another Van Dijk sign) but Balon D'Or is an international award so , correctly, the International  context precedes the national context normally . And it was the year of Liverpool.

Messi is not playing like Higuain or Suarez.

He is not just a scorer, not even just a GREAT scorer. No doubt Messi is the best midfielder in football. The kind of playmaking he does every week is at the level of the great playmakers, he deserves to be on the BdO list just as a creator. Then you combine with more goals than games, then with the fact that he did it at both CL and league.

VVD placed ahead of all other strikers, it's not about devaluing defenders, it's just that the difference of level is too high. Messi has (had) far too much individual impact in Barca's game over the last year.

I was glad to see Modric win it last year, he really wasn't the best player of 2018 though, its just the fatigue of seeing Ronaldo and Messi dominate the award for so long. The standard these two set is too high.

[Thimmy]

I think people like Thimmy are just exhausted by watching Messi and Ronaldo's duopoly year in year out and want to see fresh faces despite them not being as good even.

Exactly. Also, since when was this competition about being the best? Some years, being on the CL winning team seems to hold the most weight. Suddenly, it’s league dominance. Other years, it’s the international comps. Last year, simply being part of a CL winning team and getting far in the world cup was enough. What are the criteria? Where’s the consistency? The only constant I can see in this competition over the past few years, is that the winner scored some kind of freak goal in a big match that had people talking about them for a while. Modric against Argentina, CR’s bicycle kick etc. I can’t tell what else matters.

[Unique]

vvd didnt win it because he plays in england and not spain. there is more argument for vvd to win it this year from messi than there was for modric to win it from messi but modric plays in spain so he got it. still not to worry im sure vvd is happy with the UCL title.

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