There was a program in England on Norway's social services recently. I'm shocked at how if a child is considered slightly "withdrawn" they will take all that family's children. What's up with the child snatchers secret police? Is that Scandinavian socialism?! Do your children belong to the state? Do you think they're public property?

The amount of immigrant children snatched was proportionally 3-4 times higher than the Norwegian immigrant population, incidentally.

I'm all for assimilation, but not that social engineering nonsense. If you can't get your immigrants to be Norwegian enough, maybe consider your immigration policiy rather than steal their kids?

DuringTheWar wrote:There was a program in England on Norway's social services recently. I'm shocked at how if a child is considered slightly "withdrawn" they will take all that family's children. What's up with the child snatchers secret police? Is that Scandinavian socialism?! Do your children belong to the state? Do you think they're public property?

"child snatchers secret police". Way to make a headline!

The answers would be:

Nothing, thats not a thing. Scandinavia isn't a country, Norway is Norway, Norway is also not socialist. No. No.

DuringTheWar wrote:The amount of immigrant children snatched was proportionally 3-4 times higher than the Norwegian immigrant population, incidentally.

I'm all for assimilation, but not that social engineering nonsense. If you can't get your immigrants to be Norwegian enough, maybe consider your immigration policiy rather than steal their kids?

Norwegian society has a big problem assimilating all the immigrants but not everything goes back to that. Its mostly about following the law. Most of these cases are about violence and abuse. If this is the case, should authorities abandon the child? I don't know what the right answer is, but it sure isn't so clear cut. These are delicate cases. If people come to Norway and break the law should they not be held accountable because they are immigrants?

rincon wrote:

DuringTheWar wrote:There was a program in England on Norway's social services recently. I'm shocked at how if a child is considered slightly "withdrawn" they will take all that family's children. What's up with the child snatchers secret police? Is that Scandinavian socialism?! Do your children belong to the state? Do you think they're public property?

"child snatchers secret police". Way to make a headline!

The answers would be:

Nothing, thats not a thing. Scandinavia isn't a country, Norway is Norway, Norway is also not socialist. No. No.

DuringTheWar wrote:The amount of immigrant children snatched was proportionally 3-4 times higher than the Norwegian immigrant population, incidentally.

I'm all for assimilation, but not that social engineering nonsense. If you can't get your immigrants to be Norwegian enough, maybe consider your immigration policiy rather than steal their kids?

Norwegian society has a big problem assimilating all the immigrants but not everything goes back to that. Its mostly about following the law. Most of these cases are about violence and abuse. If this is the case, should authorities abandon the child? I don't know what the right answer is, but it sure isn't so clear cut. These are delicate cases. If people come to Norway and break the law should they not be held accountable because they are immigrants?

And I'm not against the existence of a state provided service to protect children from abuse. I do however loath the idea of a state regulating how its citizens parent and the acceptable outcomes for the children. When protecting a child from a parent who think they are possessed by the devil turns into something more like - "Little Ahmed is displaying signs of being introverted, let's take him away from his obedient Muslim parents and give him to this lovely Norwegian gay couple" - that's just disgusting. That type of thing seems to be happening in Norway.

The problem is the ridiculously tight law on what constitutes physical abuse, not a racial issue. Regulations need to be relaxed in some cases. It happening proportionally more to immigrants is a consequences of outside cultures favoring different customs at home. Not about the government targeting any race or religion.

Wow

http://thefederalist.com/2016/04/18/read-about-norway-stealing-these-kids-then-tout-democratic-socialism/

"Since Barnevernet intervened to save Eliana and Naomi from spankings and Bible lessons, their risk of being sexually molested has skyrocketed."

"Incredibly, while Norway’s child welfare law contains no mention of a child’s natural bond with his parents, it does acknowledge a potential bond with foster parents. After two years in foster care, the law becomes biased against returning the child home."

Crazy Norway

Just the title of that article has an extremely sensationalist claim used to disprove something completely unrelated.

That's not the way to properly identify and resolve a real problem. It just creates extremism on both ends of the issue.

rincon wrote:Just the title of that article has an extremely sensationalist claim used to disprove something completely unrelated.

That's not the way to properly identify and resolve a real problem. It just creates extremism on both ends of the issue.

It isn't unrelated. Different issue yes but not unrelated. You have to admit socialists tend to downplay the importance of parents more often than other political groups. Family is an institution that is a competitor in many ways to the state.

Just read the likes of Bertand Russell writing about how the average person is too incompetent to raise their children in such a way as to make his utopian dreams come true. It's really creepy and pathetic.

DuringTheWar wrote:There was a program in England on Norway's social services recently. I'm shocked at how if a child is considered slightly "withdrawn" they will take all that family's children. What's up with the child snatchers secret police? Is that Scandinavian socialism?! Do your children belong to the state? Do you think they're public property?

I've argued with a LOT of people on this topic, on Youtube and on the internet in general. I also have actual experience with the CPS here, since my alcoholic aunt lost custody of both of my cousins and my mom became their legal guardian. It all started when an Eastern European couple had their children taken away by the Norwegian CPS about 5-6 years ago. They used social media in order to garner sympathy, and it went viral. Since then, there's been an explosion of angry parents who've used social media and rallied people for protests. People in Canada, The U.S., Australia, Spain, Germany, England, the middle-east, Norway.. all over the world have participated in these protests, including people who have absolutely nothing to do with any of it.

I even happened to walk past one of these demonstrations here a few years ago, and I stopped taking them seriously, once the lead demonstrator started claiming that our policemen are rapists. I couldn't help but notice that a great deal of the demonstrators seemed to be Norwegian deadbeats. I thought it was funny, because you don't see them outside in broad daylight very often, and here was a whole group of them.

Politicians in certain Eastern European countries have even gone so far as to draw comparisons between our government and nazi practices. I've read comments from people on the internet, claiming that we're all nazis, inbred, evil, unintelligent, a doomed country, and that the alleged kidnapping of children is all part of some scheme to keep Norway Aryan, or to steal children with "superior genes" from Lithuania, Latvia, Romania etc.

The claims are just so unbelievably absurd and delusional, that I simply have no words to describe it. Apparently, some people have gone as far as to write propaganda against Norway in several countries in Eastern Europe, so I guess it's not really that surprising that the claims are baseless. I even saw a video on Youtube of a Norwegian couple pretending to be American, in an attempt to garner sympathy from foreigners in their case of having their children taken away by the police and the CPS.

Unfortunately, many of these people seem to care more about venting their frustrations on Norway, rather than to focus on their actual complaint. Some even include Sweden, Scandinavia and the Nordic countries as a target of hatred.. just because they can I'm sure there'll be a conclusion to this whole ordeal sooner or later, but man, the power of social media is fricken scary as hell, not to mention how understandably, yet unreasonably desperate someone can get when their child is at stake.

Clearly, this responsible, Norwegian mother is a victim of injustice.


A 20 year old American mother who happens to speak fluent Arendal dialect. More injustice. Also, incompetent police officers? Clearly a conspiracy. They actually answer her question, and then she seemingly gets angry because she has nothing more to add to it


Some quotes from Youtube that made me lose faith in humanity.


This one's my favorite. Unfortunately, the guy who wrote the comment, deleted it after I copy pasted it into my comment.

Spoiler:

http://www.norway.org/News_and_events/Embassy/Norway-Ratifies-the-1996-Hague-Child-Protection-Convention/#.Vxvz1D9L5mo

DuringTheWar wrote:The amount of immigrant children snatched was proportionally 3-4 times higher than the Norwegian immigrant population, incidentally.

I'm all for assimilation, but not that social engineering nonsense. If you can't get your immigrants to be Norwegian enough, maybe consider your immigration policiy rather than steal their kids?

What do you propose is the reason for us attempting to steal foreign kids? We might as well open up the borders for more Syrians and get support funds from the EU as a bonus. Good thing you've got it all figured out, though. I suggest you call our government and tell them that they're being dumb, but you have a solution. We're a social democracy, by the way, so you might have to adjust your ideals accordingly. Sorry, you probably already knew that.

Back in 2008, I read an article on a family from Tanzania who were under investigation by the Norwegian child protective services, after a teacher had contacted them regarding bruises on the body of one of their children. No action was taken then, due to lack of evidence suggesting that any abuse or wrongdoing had been committed to the child. It took several years before the child was eventually taken away from it's parents, after the parenting situation had become more apparent. By then, the child was already in it's early teens.

I watched a news story on that very same child, yesterday. Apparently, the child who is now 16, aimed a knife towards the throat of a 17 year old girl working a late evening shift alone in a kiosk in Oslo, during winter of last year. He threatened her by asking "do you want to die today?". While his buddy robbed the store and immediately ran away, he proceeded to move the girl into a backroom and rape her. Apparently, he soon after apologized for raping her, told her that he did it because she was pretty, and asked her if they could meet again. Totally absurd

Link: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/voldtekt/voldtektstiltalt-16-til-kioskansatt-17-vil-du-doe-i-dag/a/23667357/

The robbery was committed by a 16 year old boy from Tanzania and a 17 year old boy from Aghanistan. Both of the kids were also accused of raping a 15 year old girl in a hotel lobby 3 days after they robbed the kiosk. They were eventually apprehended, after security guards recognized them from surveillance footage. The girl working in the kiosk is 18 years old today. She has been emotionally traumatized, and is struggling with both angst and a fear of dark-skinned foreigners. Both kids are victims of abuse from their parents, in situations where the child protective services didn't take action until it was too late.

Thanks to completely and utterly ignorant people like, DuringTheWar, Norway has now ratified the 1996 Hague child protective convention, and such cases will no longer be the lone responsibility of "the incompetent" Norwegian CPS, who are evidently in the wrong when they take immediate action, as well as when they don't. Now, excuse me while I make a Facebook group where I praise DuringTheWar for promising to adopt all of these children who have been tragically taken away from their parents for no apparent reason, and in the most cruel way possible. I imagine that I'll get at least a few thousand global supporters, who will crucify him if he happens to change his mind for whatever reason

dayum go off son

Think of all the kids unecessarilly in foster care at higher risk of abuse (and suffering of aggrieved parents)

You seem to be very nonchalant and desensitised to the sanctity between parent and child. I guess growing up in Norway does that. Anyways, speaking honestly I know many Scandinavians have the family values of a rabbit herd and their relationship to the state and the goody bags it provides is somewhat perverse.

I can see you fall into that category given you just admitted you want to abduct children from their parents without even any evidence of abuse.

DuringTheWar wrote:Think of all the kids unecessarilly in foster care at higher risk of abuse (and suffering of aggrieved parents)

You seem to be very nonchalant and desensitised to the sanctity between parent and child. I guess growing up in Norway does that. Anyways, speaking honestly I know many Scandinavians have the family values of a rabbit herd and their relationship to the state and the goody bags it provides is somewhat perverse.

I can see you fall into that category given you just admitted you want to abduct children from their parents without even any evidence of abuse.

Nonchalant? You're the one who's criticizing entire groups of people based on whims/vague impressions or assumptions. I find it hard to believe that you have many Scandinavian friends, seeing how arrogant and pretentious your are, and evidently you know next to nothing about Scandinavia although you like to think that you do. Where did I suggest that i want kids to be abducted without any evidence of abuse? Again, your accusation is based on assumptions. Obviously, if no abuse or wrongdoing have been committed by the parents, then "abducting" or "stealing" them, as you like to put it, would be an indescribably cruel and heartless act of evil or high-scale corruption, for which agenda only an omniscient individual like yourself would be able to make sense of.

People, you may not like each other's views, but try to stay polite nonetheless and refrain from insults, please!

Thimmy wrote:Where did I suggest that i want kids to be abducted without any evidence of abuse? Again, your accusation is based on assumptions. Obviously, if no abuse or wrongdoing have been committed by the parents, then "abducting" or "stealing" them, as you like to put it, would be an indescribably cruel and heartless act of evil or high-scale corruption, for which agenda only an omniscient individual like yourself would be able to make sense of.

You just wrote a post lamenting a case where the child was not taken because there was no evidence.

And no I don't know many Norwegians, I just read and look at statistics.

DuringTheWar wrote:

Thimmy wrote:Where did I suggest that i want kids to be abducted without any evidence of abuse? Again, your accusation is based on assumptions. Obviously, if no abuse or wrongdoing have been committed by the parents, then "abducting" or "stealing" them, as you like to put it, would be an indescribably cruel and heartless act of evil or high-scale corruption, for which agenda only an omniscient individual like yourself would be able to make sense of.

You just wrote a post lamenting a case where the child was not taken because there was no evidence.

And no I don't know many Norwegians, I just read and look at statistics.

I used that case as an example that Barnevernet can't simply react, based on people contacting them out of concern for a child's well-being. You are suggesting that they are abusing their authority (and that racism is involved?), but extreme cases like these two kids could possibly have been prevented if it were true that they could just act on a whim - something I don't endorse, and I don't know why you'd assume that I would. Of course, there's also a possiblity that putting them into foster care, or an institution, could've traumatized them all the same. I like to think that those alternatives are the better options in cases involving abusive parents, although I have read on the internet that foster care = gay parents/child molesters. Because logic.

There still has to be evidence that suggests that the parents aren't capable of raising the child, or that the child is in immediate danger. And from my experience, it takes a pretty substantial degree of parental neglect before Barnevernet can actually take away a child for the long term. They have the authority to act immediately, if they have reason to believe that doing so would prevent immediate harm to the child, but the child would go straight back to it's parents if they fail to justify this decision in their report.

Like I've said before, I actually have some experience with the Norwegian child protective services. They have protocols to follow, and they can not put a child into foster care without filing a report that has to be accepted by a person dedicated to process them. Like Rincon already mentioned, there's a possibility that the laws are tight regarding what constitutes physical abuse, but they aren't as unreasonably strict in general, as the internet would have you believe.

You have no idea how much my cousins were traumatized by their childhood, due to my aunt retaining her custody of them until they were 15 years old. The child protective services got involved quite early on, but there was not enough substantial evidence for them to take action. Meanwhile, the internet would have you believe that "the child doesn't like fish sticks" or "little Ahmed is displaying signs of being introverted" are viable reasons for them to seperate parents from their children.

If reading and looking at statistics leads you to believe that Norway is a socialist country, then I suggest you take some more time to read before claiming to be right about something. There's a certain Finnish guy who takes a lot of pride in being able to dig up various statistics, and he's wrong a lot of the time.