Valkyrja wrote:I'm quite confident that world-class talents like Marcelo and Alves can play as wingers or midfielders at a very high level. They are both very complete footballers.

how long have you been watching madrid? marcelo was already tried further up the pitch and he sucked, his crossing and passing is very average, but as usual dribbling>doing anything useful.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:I think this thread starts off with a ridiculous premise. What is a "failed winger" anyways? Someone that played winger and was moved to FB? A youth player will go through various positions before coaches find the best for him. Pique used to be a forward. Fábregas started off as a DM. You'll find plenty of examples, in fact I'd say it may even be weird for a player to only keep one position throughout his career. Does that make most players "failed" in some position?

Good post. I think the answer is that there is an implied hierarchy of positions, which is what the premise betrays.

Generally, attacking players are more highly regarded than defensive players, so if a player is turned from a winger to a full back, he is 'failed'.

Correspondingly, if a fullback was used as winger, many fans would likely see it as a promotion, like the admiring mumbling of 'Marcelo being good enough to be a winger' lol.
That may be, but then maybe he's not good enough to be a full back

I think plenty of folks have this spot on.

I don't fully understand the premise firstly, but my understanding of the FB position is that you have to be able to be a 2-way player. You have to have the stamina and physicality to mark your man well, tackle well as well as have the positional sense to know where to be to intercept passes and stop crosses from opposing wingers and full-backs pushing foward. On the other end of the spectrum, FBs need to have not just the physical ability to get forward consistently, but the intelligence to time their runs and overlaps to match that of the man on the opposite side of the pitch in order to keep the team in balance while they move forward. This is a position that, as some have said, requires a complete understanding of the game as well as a complete skillset as a player. Probably the toughest outfield position to play as a result, which is why truly great FBs (let alone elite level) are distinctly scarce nowadays.

For me, Lahm is still the best full-back I've seen in the last 10 years or so. Before him there was Cafu that comes to mind along with Roberto Carlos. Complete players who understood both phases of the role. Not sure this current generation has a player at that level. Alaba is probably closest, but even that might be debatable.

Frankly i've never heard this point brought up before the Carragher / Neville thing .
For some reason everybody reacted to what Carragher said as if it was something basic and pretty much common knowledge .

Fullback is the most difficult position in my opinion. It requires great positional sense, both defensive and offensive attributes and it isn't as forgiving as playing as a winger because one mistake and you could cost your team.

farfan wrote:Frankly i've never heard this point brought up before the Carragher / Neville thing .
For some reason everybody reacted to what Carragher said as if it was something basic and pretty much common knowledge .

The myth existed before Carra. Maybe it just stems from the fact most fans play amateur football and a better argument could be made that more often than in the realm of semi professional and professional football the worst players in the squad are dumped in the positions that aren't sexy.. namely GK and FB, and then to a lesser extent CB and DM. I think there has been a shift there though.. appreciation is growing for the position.

chad4401 wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:I'm quite confident that world-class talents like Marcelo and Alves can play as wingers or midfielders at a very high level. They are both very complete footballers.

how long have you been watching madrid? marcelo was already tried further up the pitch and he sucked, his crossing and passing is very average, but as usual dribbling>doing anything useful.

As a 19 years old ? Nice.

His passing is not average lol, along with Modric he's our best 1st touch passer. Long passes short passes, inside of the foot outside of the foot. His passing is fantastic. I've rarely seen him misplace a 1 touch pass.

False

Art Morte wrote:
Which position is the most forgiving in football? Full-back.

Full-back the most forgiving position? I do not agree at all. If you are a fullback and get caught out of position often (because you are too far from your own goal and/or lack the quickness to catch up with the opposition winger, or your positional awareness is not good) your team can end up leaking a lot of goals.

I think it's true that most players grow up not wanting to be full-backs, but as others have said, it's still a position that requires a specific set of skills that not everyone has. It just so happens that the modern full-back and classic winger share a lot of the same skills - pace, stamina, work rate, dribbling and crossing.

Arsenal have a habit of converting wingers into full back, to mixed success. Ashley Cole and Bellerin being successful examples, Armand Traore being a bad one. Difference between these players is that Cole/Bellerin had the intelligence and talent to learn how to defend and play the role, whereas Traore simply didn't. So it's really not as simple as spotting a rubbish winger in your team then sticking him at full back.

Most defenders are failed attackers.goalkeeper is failed defender.Massesur is a failed goalkeeper

so wrong

Nah crap imo. I've seen and met full-backs and goalies who've played there for most of their lives (since a young age) and love their respective positions.

El Gunner wrote:Nah crap imo. I've seen and met full-backs and goalies who've played there for most of their lives (since a young age) and love their respective positions.

who loves dirty work and tackling? Usually manager forces them to play in the back at young ages because they fail in the attack

Or because they are bigger and have better sense than the other kids.

Goalies are a whole different thing altogether.

nazimali12 wrote:

El Gunner wrote:Nah crap imo. I've seen and met full-backs and goalies who've played there for most of their lives (since a young age) and love their respective positions.

who loves dirty work and tackling? Usually manager forces them to play in the back at young ages because they fail in the attack

Not true. Some players are just more naturally gifted in some aspects of the game than other players. Who loves dirty work and tackling? Well, winning back possession must be a very satisfying thing for defenders and defensive midfielders to do, since it allows their team to play their football. Since we live in an era where more and more all-rounded players are needed, even attackers have to do their fair share of tackling and dirty work.

nazimali12 wrote:Most defenders are failed attackers.goalkeeper is failed defender.Massesur is a failed goalkeeper

lol Del Piero was failed GK

Valkyrja wrote:I'm quite confident that world-class talents like Marcelo and Alves can play as wingers or midfielders at a very high level. They are both very complete footballers.

one of the worst defenders ive ever seen. if he was at a mid table club in a top lge he wouldent get a game.

to be a good full back you need to like defending. I played up front. mf center back and right back. my strengths were speed ( I could run 100m in 11 seconds ) and I was a strong player that liked a challenge. so in the end I went to right back and loved it. I see a lot of people today that say no defender likes a player that takes them on. I loved it when a player took me on because all I had to do was beat him. as a full back what I didn't like was players that pass and move. will we ever see another maldini.

Unique wrote:to be a good full back you need to like defending. I played up front. mf center back and right back. my strengths were speed ( I could run 100m in 11 seconds ) and I was a strong player that liked a challenge. so in the end I went to right back and loved it. I see a lot of people today that say no defender likes a player that takes them on. I loved it when a player took me on because all I had to do was beat him. as a full back what I didn't like was players that pass and move. will we ever see another maldini.

I was/am RB and DM. It was the same for me but I always always choose to close them down in one corner or out line, and yeah I LOVE the beating I prefer the DM or when I play CB because I can control the defense and be in charge. Damn I love defending.

DeviAngel wrote:

Unique wrote:to be a good full back you need to like defending. I played up front. mf center back and right back. my strengths were speed ( I could run 100m in 11 seconds ) and I was a strong player that liked a challenge. so in the end I went to right back and loved it. I see a lot of people today that say no defender likes a player that takes them on. I loved it when a player took me on because all I had to do was beat him. as a full back what I didn't like was players that pass and move. will we ever see another maldini.

I was/am RB and DM. It was the same for me but I always always choose to close them down in one corner or out line, and yeah I LOVE the beating I prefer the DM or when I play CB because I can control the defense and be in charge. Damn I love defending.

DeviAngel wrote:

Unique wrote:to be a good full back you need to like defending. I played up front. mf center back and right back. my strengths were speed ( I could run 100m in 11 seconds ) and I was a strong player that liked a challenge. so in the end I went to right back and loved it. I see a lot of people today that say no defender likes a player that takes them on. I loved it when a player took me on because all I had to do was beat him. as a full back what I didn't like was players that pass and move. will we ever see another maldini.

I was/am RB and DM. It was the same for me but I always always choose to close them down in one corner or out line, and yeah I LOVE the beating I prefer the DM or when I play CB because I can control the defense and be in charge. Damn I love defending.

I don't know, but have you younger fellows ever watched Paolo Maldini's dribbling and touch on the ball. He was a left back that could have played any position at the highest level, world class level, except goalkeeper.

breva wrote:I don't know, but have you younger fellows ever watched Paolo Maldini's dribbling and touch on the ball. He was a left back that could have played any position at the highest level, world class level, except goalkeeper.

Spoiler:

imo maldini is the best left back to ever play football

I think people are giving full-backs too much credit for things that require very little skill or talent
Like, positioning and man-marking, these aren't actually difficult things per se. Or pace and stamina, these are only combination of genes and training, nothing to do with talent. Learning and mastering dribbling, accurate & powerful shooting, finishing, creative passing and vision, tricks... These are much, much more difficult to master.

Or lets put it this way: if all of the world's wingers started playing full-back and all the full-backs started to play winger, it is the ex-wingers playing full-back who would collectively look better than the ex-full-backs who were now playing wingers. Defending is simply easier than attacking.

Unique wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:I'm quite confident that world-class talents like Marcelo and Alves can play as wingers or midfielders at a very high level. They are both very complete footballers.

one of the worst defenders ive ever seen. if he was at a mid table club in a top lge he wouldent get a game.

Too bad he is not