What curse has befallen on ManU wingers?

by Art Morte Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:43 am

Ashley Young, 28.
Joined United in summer 2011 from Aston Villa having consistently put together impressive goal and assist numbers in the Prem, scoring between 5-8 goals and about a dozen assist each season. In his first season with United managed "only" about 1500 minutes of PL footy - about 17 games - but scored 6 and assisted 11 goals. Last season played some 200 minutes less, but didn't score, assisted 5. This season has 1 goal and 2 assists in 10 appearances.

Antonio Valencia, 28.
Joined United in summer 2009 from Wigan. 5 goals and 9 assists in his first season for United. Played less than 10 games in 2010/11 due to injury, but came back strong the next season: 4 goals and 14 assists in 2100 minutes (about 23 full games). Last season in same amount of minutes managed only one goal and 7 assists. In 17 apps this season has 1 + 2.

Luis Nani, 27.
Joined United in 2007 from Sporting CP. Injuries limited his first three seasons, but still managed to either score or assist every 123 minutes in the PL. Very impressive in 10/11 and 11/12: 9 + 18 and 8 + 12 respectively, in spite of missing games in both seasons. Last season just 1 goal and 3 assists in 630 minutes of PL footy. This season hasn't recorded a goal or an assist 420 minutes.

*Stats from Premier League's Fantasy Football site.

So what's going on here? All should be pretty much in their peak years and all have had several good or even outstanding seasons in the past, they should be "PL proven" players. But for all three of them the last good season was 11/12:

Young: 6 + 11
Valencia: 4 + 14
Nani: 8 + 12

After that each of them have gone missing and that's continued for 1.5 years already and are constantly getting flak from United supporters.

What's the explanation here?

by free_cat Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:11 am

I don't know what happened with Valencia and Young. However, I think Nani is not playing well anymore because he lost his confidence and feels mistreated by United. He was one of their best players in 11/12 and they benched him with no reason next season.

by The Franchise Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:25 am

Young was never Man Utd standard in the first place, so nothing really happened.

I agree with Free about Nani. I am sure some will come and say there is X and Y wrong with him (which lead to him not playing) and that might very well be true, but its also true he played very well one season and didnt get the same chances the next one.

Valencia I am not sure, I did really like him at some point. But he no longer makes the impact he used to.

by VanDeezNuts Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:47 pm

I think the easy answer is that they have always been average, but have managed to put together a couple of good seasons each when United have been on top.

But to break it down, Young has always been average to me, not United quality.

Valencia had moments where he looked great in both attack and defense before the broken leg, but hes never been a 'WOW' type winger. And since the leg break I haven't noticed him much tbh.

Nani has always been a fluff player to me, no substance. Can pull off some aesthetic moves but as far as build up play he looks either clueless or uninterested on the whole.

by Busby Babe Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:17 pm

Valencia: has been rubbish for over a season and a half. Our worst winger can't go past player, and when he does the cross is terrible. I think he made a total of two crosses in our last two games against Tottenham.

Ashley Young: Very predictable on the left, on the right he's a better player. He's an alright squad player not good enough to start, but good enough to start ahead of Valencia.

Januzaj: Our best winger currently, he can't play every game, he's still quite young. When he was switched to the right, in the second half yesterday, he tore Rose apart, where Valencia struggled in the first half.

Nani: I wish he would get more of a run in the team, especially when Ashley Young and Valencia are not half they players he is on form, but it's been a long time since he has been on form and he does get injured quite a bit. He needs a move to rejuvenate his career, imo.

Kagawa: Not a winger.

Zaha: He doesn't play.

vanDEEZ wrote:I think the easy answer is that they have always been average, but have managed to put together a couple of good seasons each when United have been on top.

But to break it down, Young has always been average to me, not United quality.

Valencia had moments where he looked great in both attack and defense before the broken leg, but hes never been a 'WOW' type winger. And since the leg break I haven't noticed him much tbh.

Nani has always been a fluff player to me, no substance. Can pull off some aesthetic moves but as far as build up play he looks either clueless or uninterested on the whole.

He was voted our player of the season, the season after his injury.

by Lex Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:04 pm

Is what happens when you buy mediocrity

by lenear1030 Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:23 pm

what I don't understand is why Nani chose to stay when he had the chance to leave. I hope it was to keep his family stable in Manchester or something because he had no business choosing to stay when there was never any faith in him.

by Onyx Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:51 pm

All of them had good form at one point, however none of them are really elite, simple.

by The Franchise Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:14 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:All of them had good form at one point, however none of them are really elite, simple.

Bit like Modric hmm

by Art Morte Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:07 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:All of them had good form at one point, however none of them are really elite, simple.

That's too simple. All of them have had several very good seasons. And all three lost their form at the same time, since the beginning of last season. That might indicate the problem is at the club and in the way these players have been managed. Anyway, it's strange and quite a coincidence if three previously consistent and quality wingers all became average at the same time.

by RED Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:41 pm

We are in desperate need of a quality winger. To answer the question raise by Art:

Young: Cons- Can't beat his marker. Awful at crosses. Very limited at top level football. A mid table player...which is ironic because we are currently mid table level.

Pros- Works hard and helps out defensively. Has the rare ability of scoring an unexpected screamer.

Valencia: Pros- Has pace and tends to form a good understanding with Rafael. Err helps us win corners...:/ I'm scraping the barrel here.

Cons- Boy, where do I begin. Can't cross to save his life. Doesn't contribute with assists at all. Repeatedly slows down our attacks. Looks clueless when he has the ball. Bereft of any ideas when he is in great positions in the final 3rd. Our worst winger by far.

Nani: Pros- His unpredictability. Has the ability to create an opportunity from either the centre or the wings. Can cross with either foot. Has a good strike and is sound technically.

Cons- His incosistency. Can have a great game, then the following 3 or 4, be absolutely useless and frustrating. Has a tendency to make wrong choices during a match, ie, being selfish and opting to shoot when a pass to a better placed player would have been the best option. This is the reason why he has never made the upgrade from good winger to top class winger.

Januzaj- 18 years old and is already a better player than the aformentioned players. Made the switch to the right hand side v Spurs last night in the 2nd half and tore them to pieces. This kid is our only bit of quality as an attacking outlet other than Rooney and RVP.

Atm, for nani, Young and Valencia, the cons are far outweighing the pros- For several months (even more for Valencia). And we are struggling badly because of it because the wings is our only source of creativity from open play.

So there...

by danyjr Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:47 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:All of them had good form at one point, however none of them are really elite, simple.

Bit like Modric

by Art Morte Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:43 pm

Thanks to RED for his profound reply, although I'm still struggling to understand it completely. Like, Valencia, RED says he "doesn't contribute with assists at all", yet just 1.5 seasons ago he provided 14 assists in the league. And I agree Nani can be inconsistent, but in two consecutive seasons he put together stats 9 + 18 and 8 + 12. That's pretty consistent. Young "awful at crosses" yet during his Aston Villa years he recorded three 10+ assists seasons.

And they all became sh*t at the same time. That's what I really don't get, can it be a coincidence that three previously fine wingers well under 30-years-old all seriously lose form at the same time.

And finally, why doesn't Zaha get any chances? He's had two short substitute appearances this season and that's just way too harsh on the guy when the only performing winger is an 18-year-old Januzaj.

by the xcx Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:57 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:All of them had good form at one point, however none of them are really elite, simple.

Bit like Modric

Id rather have Modric in my team instead of Xavi. Playing for Premier League is very important when your on peak.

by danyjr Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:51 pm

the xcx wrote:Id rather have Modric in my team instead of Xavi. Playing for Premier League is very important when your on peak.

What curse has befallen on ManU wingers? 349

by chinomaster182 Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:03 pm

Art Morte wrote:Thanks to RED for his profound reply, although I'm still struggling to understand it completely. Like, Valencia, RED says he "doesn't contribute with assists at all", yet just 1.5 seasons ago he provided 14 assists in the league. And I agree Nani can be inconsistent, but in two consecutive seasons he put together stats 9 + 18 and 8 + 12. That's pretty consistent. Young "awful at crosses" yet during his Aston Villa years he recorded three 10+ assists seasons.

And they all became sh*t at the same time. That's what I really don't get, can it be a coincidence that three previously fine wingers well under 30-years-old all seriously lose form at the same time.

And finally, why doesn't Zaha get any chances? He's had two short substitute appearances this season and that's just way too harsh on the guy when the only performing winger is an 18-year-old Januzaj.

I don't find it to be supernatural at all. SAF bought Van Persie, he had three in form strikers with him, Rooney and Hernandez, he started playing 4-3-3 more and other variants that didn't include his natural wingers, they all suddenly got dropped for a season and inactivity suits no player.

Plus Valencia had a bad injury and you have to consider another important idea, that United team that got demolished at Wembly by pepcelona was the last big team i saw using 4-4-2. After that saf shyed away from 4-4-2 and wingers like Valencia are some of the last dying breeds of pure crossers, even guys like Guardado are being turned into lbs these days. Theres also the last sticky point that saf used to make everyone overperform.

I have not seen United under Moyes too much, however it doesnt look like he wants to go back to 4-4-2 anytime soon or go 3-5-2, 3-4-3 where his wingers could see better use.

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