What's really wrong with current team

by futbol_bill Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:34 am

Initially, it seemed everyone was blaming current team problems on Rafa or Flo ( re squad composition and the unbalance it has). Now after past couple of games, it may appear as if Zidane's magic might not be enough to overcome the imbalance.

Now I should first declare that I have missed last 2 games being away, but it seems to me that there is criticism all over the place. We have gone from Ramos and Pepe, maybe Varane being the problem, to laterals, particularly Marcelo and before that Danilo. Then we all have talked about Ronaldo problems and to some extent all of BBC plus James as well. Now it seems, maybe Sports led that our midfield is the problem and that both Isco and Kross have to go. I maintain that Sports and others are misreading exactly what Zidane is doing. i say he is playing a 4-3-3 offensive configuration and a 4-4-2 defensive configuration when Bale in lineup, but with James in for Bale it is a 4-4-2 both ways. I say this as that is what he was doing (to James) when he was forcing him to compete with Isco. Granted there are still positional issues with James, but I believe that is what the intent is. I don't buy Sport's theory that AMs and Kross are the problem. i believe Zidane definitely wants to play with at least one AM. I do believe that Kroos is a problem and that we need a defensive mid not Pogba as the solution. I definitely also believe that Ronaldo is a huge probelm to team balance.

Am I the only one with this opinion?

by sportsczy Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:15 am

It's always a 442 defensively... two levels of 4 defenders has always been the basis of almost every defense except the 352 where you actually are playing a 532 on defense.

Defensive shape has nothing to do with it. It's the profiles of those that are trying to defend.

You can't have 4 defenders (1 of them being weak in Marcelo) and then 4 crap midfielders in terms of defense playing in front of them, which is exactly what we have with Bale-Modric-Kroos-Isco. Modric is by far the best defender in that group and that should tell you something.

We have one glaring issue that we cannot fix unless we change personnel: Ball recovery. We suck at it. The next glaring issue is athleticism: Other than our CBs and Bale, we're not athletic.

So assuming we will stick with 3 strikers, you have to make the midfield profiles work. Ronaldo, if he gets sold, is going to be replaced by either Hazard or another forward who plays token defense. Same with Benz. Bale is going nowhere

So what does that leave you? Modric is going nowhere obviously so you can only upgrade defensively and athletically in the Isco and Kroos positions. There really is no other option.

I'm not saying they're bad players because they're not... they're very good. But given the way the team is constructed, we have no other options.

by Turok_TTZ Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:48 am

Strength is overrated but I do agree on speed. Only bale and to some extent carvajal and marcelo got some speed for the offense game.

Ball recovery shouldn't be an issue if we had eveyone work together but our players dont seem to get that, least from what i observe. James and isco still cant space and position well in midfield and its making things harder for modric and kroos.

That and kroos form is bad atm. Not sure what happened but he isnt playing his best footy right now... his positioning has been whack from day one since preseason.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:52 am

we don't have anyone in the midfield who knows how to tackle or use their body to take the ball away... Modric is the best at it by far lol and he's not exactly very good at those.

... and that's the whole problem. You can't win 5-0 every game. So you need defensive qualities to handle close games and win most of those. As we are constructed, we are going to have a very hard time in close affairs regardless of the opposition. Our CBs are asked to do waaaay too much.

by guest7 Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:03 am

What's the pass success of each player on the team?

Dont show me whoscored stats they are very often inaccurate

by Valkyrja Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:26 am

Carvajal is faster than Bale IMO. Don't understand what happened to Ronaldo. In the first part of last season he was in his top top form. As good as ever, literally unplayable. After January his form took a massive dip. As bad as ever

by Adit Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:30 pm

All we need is a DM and some one to replace Ronaldo (anyone). We will have a Modric-DM-Isco/Kovacic/Kroos midfield (Take your pick for LCM).

Instead of getting the DM which we badly need we are talking about replacing LCM which we have a collection of different types to choose from already.

Let's set the priority straight, that is the DM.

by Kick Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:36 am

Adit wrote:All we need is a DM and some one to replace Ronaldo (anyone). We will have a Modric-DM-Isco/Kovacic/Kroos midfield (Take your pick for LCM).

Instead of getting the DM which we badly need we are talking about replacing LCM which we have a collection of different types to choose from already.

Let's set the priority straight, that is the DM.

As an outsider, I agree with this.

A destroyer type DM (Krychowiak, Gustavo, Carvalho) would solve many issues for Madrid. Also getting someone like Reus or Greizmann to replace Ronaldo (send him to PSG).

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:11 am

You can't really do that if you're playing with 3 strikers Kick... you'd need to have a max of two strikers. But the way Flo is rolling, he would replace Ronaldo with Lewandowski....

by Kick Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:15 am

Then you need to replace Ronaldo with a proper wide man, Perhaps you could lure Douglas Costa from Bayern?

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:40 am

I don't think Flo wants a wide man... he wants a scorer. Griezmann fits the bill but he's not sexy enough.

Only reason Lewa is being talked about is that he didn't deny interest. Doubt Bayern sells anyone.

Knowing Flo, he may sign Cavani Laughing

by Kick Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:43 am

Which leads you to the real problem with the team.

It's being built by your president and not someone who knows what they are doing.

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:53 am

Kick wrote:Which leads you to the real problem with the team.

It's being built by your president and not someone who knows what they are doing.

Barca seems to stumble along ok with the same problem Laughing

by Kick Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:59 am

sportsczy wrote:
Kick wrote:Which leads you to the real problem with the team.

It's being built by your president and not someone who knows what they are doing.

Barca seems to stumble along ok with the same problem

I'd argue that Barca are doing a much better job of it, though.

They're not selling starters who fit their system for star players who don't.

If you want to properly compete with Barca, you have to keep players who are playing well, like Di Maria, and fills any gaps with players that would suit your style.

And if you really want Pogba, you would have to buy a DM as well. Pogba - Krychowiak/Gustavo - Kroos/Modric

That would work and be a very balanced midfield, unlike what you have now.

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:02 am

We competed fine with Barca a couple of years ago... the issue is that our alleged "superstar" signings haven't turned into superstars (James, Isco and Bale). On the other hand, Barca has hit the jackpot with Neymar, Suarez and, to a lesser extent, Rakitic.

That trend will turn. It always does.

by Kick Thu Feb 11, 2016 3:12 am

I'd aruge Barca has had the better of Madrid for a while now.

1 La liga and 1 CL vs 4 La Liga and 2 CL since 09/10 shows that. Even if Madrid were only close behind, Barca have had the better run in the Classico's too.

2-3 well thought out purchases that work in the system could change that for Madrid.

Probably selling silly purchases like James would help, too.

by titosantill Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:10 am

i hope zidane can bring in an attitude adjustment. its not summer yet, so i don't want to get into who should or shouldn't come in....however, i want a change in the attitude of players here and a just as strong hatred for losing as the love of winning. look at last week, immediately we conceded we looked tame, and granada had that "we can beat this lot" mentality about them...and we on the other hand felt we could just pass the ball into the net, no sense of urgency. i hope florentino agrees to host the copa final at the bernabeau, and zidane forces the squad to watch it....maybe that will disgust them enough to step up in the upcoming season(s); since it appears barcelona winning the treble wasn't enough embarrassment

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:43 am

Kick wrote:I'd aruge Barca has had the better of Madrid for a while now.

1 La liga and 1 CL vs 4 La Liga and 2 CL since 09/10 shows that. Even if Madrid were only close behind, Barca have had the better run in the Classico's too.

2-3 well thought out purchases that work in the system could change that for Madrid.

Probably selling silly purchases like James would help, too.

Yeah but you also need to consider the Barca has had its golden generation... Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Busquets, Pique, etc... that generation is moving on bit by bit. If Madrid wasn't retarded last season, we should have had La Liga AND we were the best team in Europe the year before.

It really comes down to Flo not being so knee jerk and allowing things to flow a little bit. He almost has to with Zidane and i think that's why he hired him... about the only manager Madrid fans will be patient with is Zidane. He can't be horrible... but if he's building things up, for once, Madrid will show some patience.

by Kick Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:50 am

sportsczy wrote:
Kick wrote:I'd aruge Barca has had the better of Madrid for a while now.

1 La liga and 1 CL vs 4 La Liga and 2 CL since 09/10 shows that. Even if Madrid were only close behind, Barca have had the better run in the Classico's too.

2-3 well thought out purchases that work in the system could change that for Madrid.

Probably selling silly purchases like James would help, too.

Yeah but you also need to consider the Barca has had its golden generation... Iniesta, Xavi, Messi, Busquets, Pique, etc... that generation is moving on bit by bit. If Madrid wasn't retarded last season, we should have had La Liga AND we were the best team in Europe the year before.

It really comes down to Flo not being so knee jerk and allowing things to flow a little bit. He almost has to with Zidane and i think that's why he hired him... about the only manager Madrid fans will be patient with is Zidane. He can't be horrible... but if he's building things up, for once, Madrid will show some patience.

I agree on your second point, and if Zidane can get some control over building the squad and Flo allows him that, these low points will disappear for a while.

by Doc Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:35 am

For starters, ill-advised player investments and player roles. Purchasing a crocked Kaka, trying to make Benzema, Ronaldo and Higuain work in a lineup seamlessly, selling Di Maria and getting James without actually having a place for him that suits his skill set, having a handful of ACMs that really should play ACM and not be doing weird roles like Kroos being a holding mid or Isco being a winger-cum-forward or the ill-fated false nine.

But my main reason as to what is wrong with the team: Florentino Perez. Not because he is an awful chairman, he actually has done quite a few things that any chairman would be proud of but what he wants for the team has never correlate to what the team actually needs. He wants that superstar team that people would admire beyond a football pitch. A Hollywood-esque side capable of ridiculous levels of football and fame.

Sports is correct in that the superstars he bought hasn't turned out to be superstars yet but Barcelona bought guys (mainly Neymar and Suarez) who actually make sense to what they want to accomplish. What was the point in Bale or James since there wasn't any genuine need for either. Hell, I don't think Isco was of any genuine need for that matter.

by titosantill Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:41 am

its funny how we were linked to neymar and suarez, and barcelona went for them when florentino wasn't interested anymore.....oh well. hell, doesn't mean they may have performed here, trust us to look for a way to totally mess that up by playing them out of position, firing a coach that may have helped their progress, or whatever it is we do to players ....btw is anyone besides me bothered by these injuries bale keeps getting? is it the same injury he's been having or is it a bout of different injuries?.....and i agree with doc on isco; that was a political signing, when florentino wanted to appease fans by bringing in more spanish players -to be fair to him, the fans and media largely requested for that b'cos of what they saw at barcelona, which i thought was a bit ridiculous

by Doc Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:10 am

In all fairness, I had no issues with the signing of Isco and Illarra and considering Isco's performances, I think he has done quite well in this mad place where his role changes ever so often. Quite the professional that man.

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:15 am

Which brings up the next point... we can comfortably expect that anyone that makes sense won't be bought Laughing

So when we rationalize that you can play a midfield with a AM if you have a DM OR you need to have 3 well-rounded CMs without a DM... you know we're going to insist with Kroos-Modric-Isco. I would even wager that IF Ronaldo is sold, then we sign Lewandowski, Cavani, Vardy or Harry Kane Laughing

by sportsczy Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:21 am

@Doc... remember that Rafa actually played a 4231 that used a ACM... and we put Bale as the ACM :bow:

I mean honestly... how can Madrid expect to perform for trophies at an elite level when we sabotage ourselves almost every season. The titles that we do manage to win happen in spite of ourselves.

by titosantill Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:28 am

as much as i hate to say it, harry kane is very possible...if his form/hype continues, maybe not next year but down the road. one person who has really bought into the epl's marketability hook line and sinker is florentino perez.... i think david beckham was an amazing player, a hardworker, and very talented but when u sign him, with all those crosses, yet the best header on your team morientes is let go, and you can still get free kicks from figo, zidane, carlos, hell even hierro :facepalm:

not to mention owen, woodgate et al...kane is definitely possible. the epl have made a believer out of flo, i think almost every year since after bringing in ronaldo (el phenomeno), under florentino we've signed at least one player from epl...now some have been good, don't get me wrong, but its not far fetched to think that flo will soon buy into kane's marketability if this goes on

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