Art Morte wrote:

jibers wrote:

Art Morte wrote:It's up there with the Community Shield in prestige.

Yes thats why SOuth American players and all the Barcelona players wanted to play in it, thats why Messi and Nerman rushed back to fitness...

That's why Guardiola cried when he won it the 1st time....

So clueless

Just stick to making previews for the EPL games please. Embarrassing stuff.

Yeah, beating teams like Auckland City and Guangzhou Evergrande, such prestige, wow.

This kind of arrogant Eurocentrist attitude wouldn't get you laid in a Cultural and Postcolonialist Studies department, I can tell you that.

Yeah. It's pretty much a non-event for me as well. It won't help making it bigger, just more games for clubs that don't really want it. I mean for the European champions, I guess it's a pretty big deal to the other other continental champions.

Just keep the format as it is and let it just pass by on the calendar.

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

jibers wrote:


Yes thats why SOuth American players and all the Barcelona players wanted to play in it, thats why Messi and Nerman rushed back to fitness...

That's why Guardiola cried when he won it the 1st time....

So clueless

Just stick to making previews for the EPL games please. Embarrassing stuff.

Yeah, beating teams like Auckland City and Guangzhou Evergrande, such prestige, wow.

This kind of arrogant Eurocentrist attitude wouldn't get you laid in a Cultural and Postcolonialist Studies department, I can tell you that.

And that's why I'm so glad you don't study there

free_cat wrote:

titosantill wrote:besides the accolade of having won it, what else does the competition have to offer to big teams? there's a huge bonus for winning ucl (there's history and prestige too), a huge bonus and an opportunity to play in ucl upon winning your domestic league or making top 4 depending on coefficients; what will the cwc offer besides travelling and fatigue? when fans and pundits start arguing other continental football leagues the way they do about serie a vs la liga vs epl vs bundesliga, then it will become appealing. even major sponsorships can't save such a short term competition.

Per game played, I think CWC pays more money than CL.

that isn't enough to entice the top european clubs you're trying to attract. previous editions have seen the winners get around 5 million US dollars. how much do the best players on the top clubs that participate earn? its okay how it is....footballers are not machines, some clubs play friendlies in the middle of the season (a very foolish idea), coupled with all that travel, its gruesome. as i said, for it to get better, other continental competitions will need to be more appealing....and i'm sure when that happens, even they won't be interested in pushing for more games in ceremonial competitions

1) Don't have it in poor nations who would better have their money spent elsewhere. There is 0 reason for a country as poor as Modern day Japan to be hosting such a tournament, especially when their sole representative in it is a club which can't even get people to support them even when winning the league.

2)Give it Olympic-style rules where only 1 or two players used can be above the age of 23 or so. This would make it more competitive. There is no reason the likes of Suarez,Neymar,and Messi should be playing against the likes of Guanzhou or even river plate. The European team will always win except in extreme cases(Like when Chelsea brought over Garbage like Mata and got crushed by a brazilian team).Sure European teams might still dominate, but it would produce a better spectacle, and give youth more experience.

While players above 23 will be sitting on their couch doing nothing for the next 7-10 days other than watching these games ?
It's difficult to implement this idea in the middle of the season and will degrade the competition totally and ruin the prestige of the tournament.
If all teams use U-23 players, it's still possible European teams will continue to dominate so nothing to gain in the end.

S wrote:While players above 23 will be sitting on their couch doing nothing for the next 7-10 days other than watching these games ?
It's difficult to implement this idea in the middle of the season and will degrade the competition totally.
If all teams use U-23 players, it's still possible European teams will continue to dominate.

I said they might still dominate, but the competition between the teams would be better.

And the above 23 players could use it as a time to get rest before the second half of the season, which would increase the quality in domestic(and cup) competitions. Are any of the top quality players really going to suffer by getting a week off?

Betty La Fea wrote:

S wrote:While players above 23 will be sitting on their couch doing nothing for the next 7-10 days other than watching these games ?
It's difficult to implement this idea in the middle of the season and will degrade the competition totally.
If all teams use U-23 players, it's still possible European teams will continue to dominate.

I said they might still dominate, but the competition between the teams would be better.

And the above 23 players could use it as a time to get rest before the second half of the season, which would increase the quality in domestic(and cup) competitions. Are any of the top quality players really going to suffer by getting a week off?

They get it through the winter break ...?

As far as youth gaining experience goes, they get it through cup competitions in the league, or UEFA youth league or some odd league games.I am not sure this will serve as some special kind of experience as the quality of other teams might be very inferior either way.

You know, by implementing this rule, people would totally stop watching the competition apart from odd few hardcore football fans.
I don't like over-commercializing competitions myself but this would totally kill the existing commercial quotient of the competition.

Not many fans would turn up at the stadium as well.
You really don't want to see that.

S wrote:

Betty La Fea wrote:

S wrote:While players above 23 will be sitting on their couch doing nothing for the next 7-10 days other than watching these games ?
It's difficult to implement this idea in the middle of the season and will degrade the competition totally.
If all teams use U-23 players, it's still possible European teams will continue to dominate.

I said they might still dominate, but the competition between the teams would be better.

And the above 23 players could use it as a time to get rest before the second half of the season, which would increase the quality in domestic(and cup) competitions. Are any of the top quality players really going to suffer by getting a week off?

They get it through the winter break ...?

As far as youth gaining experience goes, they get it through cup competitions in the league, or UEFA youth league or some odd league games.I am not sure this will serve as some special kind of experience as the quality of other teams might be very inferior either way.

You know, by implementing this rule, people would totally stop watching the competition apart from odd few hardcore football fans.
I don't like over-commercializing competitions myself but this would totally kill the existing commercial quotient of the competition.

How commercially popular is it now? Does ANYBODY actually watch it? The club world cup thread, even on this football forum, was nearly completely empty sans me and Harmonica until a bunch of Barcelona fans came in and started a fanboy war over players in their own team, and that wasn't until literally the last match or two of the tournament. It is already niche for the European world, and by charging ¥30,000+ for a final on a night where the vast majority of Japanese people have to get up before twilight to get to work on time they also had eliminated the home crowd. Only rich kids, and fans with money, were the true followers of this event.

Giving youth a chance would be best for the sport. Sure, they get a lot of experience, and this would be even further experience in representing their club on a bigger stage.

You're using this forum as a reference to check the popularity of this comp. ?

For starters, millions of Barcelona fans watch this comp..
Even casuals are Barça fans these days so imagine they find out Barça can only play the likes of Munir and Sergi Roberto for this comp..They wouldn't even bother.
Why specifically using Japan to suggest the competition is even mildly popular ?
It was in Morocco last yr and there was a big crowd for Madrid games.Now imagine considering your suggestion, Madrid can't field their stars.Who'd even turn up ? Do you entertain the idea of seeing a club world cup with empty stadiums ?

For me your idea is rather a radical one.It's an extreme step which would destroy the prestige of a 'club world cup'(might as well make it world youth cup then) and in the end this title would be considered less relevant than a 2.Bundesliga championship.

S wrote:You're using this forum as a reference to check the popularity of this comp. ?

For starters, millions of Barcelona fans watch this comp..
Even casuals are Barça fans these days so imagine they find out Barça can only play the likes of Munir and Sergi Roberto for this comp..They wouldn't even bother.
Why specifically using Japan to suggest the competition is even mildly popular ?
It was in Morocco last yr and there was a big crowd for Madrid games.Now imagine considering your suggestion, Madrid can't field their stars.Who'd even turn up ? Do you entertain the idea of seeing a club world cup with empty stadiums ?

For me your idea is rather a radical one.It's an extreme step which would destroy the prestige of a 'club world cup'(might as well make it world youth cup then) and in the end this title would be considered less relevant than a 2.Bundesliga championship.

This is a football forum, and the people on here gave two *bleep* is the point. If hardcores are "meh" towards this thing then what do you expect the rest of the world to be?

There is no doubt in my mind barcelona fans watched, and maybe even river plate fans did also, but surely an international tournament can't be based purely on the fact one or two teams will be the only draw right? Again, there was a crowd for the Barcelona game too, and at ¥30,000+ for a finals ticket you can assume who was present there. Not the Average fan of the club, or even the average fan in the host nation. Also you seem to have a misplaced prestige value with this competition. Do you think Barcelona only now believe they are the best team in the world? Because they were able to beat Guangzhou and river plate? Not when they won the Champions league months ago? This title is about as relevant as an Adult video award.

I used Japan as an example because that is where it was this year, and it did nothing but line the pockets of corrupt politicians and gained votes for racist right winger parties who used the example of Argentinians beating up family mart workers in Osaka, and the fact a woman was raped by a white guy in Yokohama as political fire to gain votes and pass even more restrictive measures. That was the legacy left by a tournament that holds no prestige anywhere in the world.

If "supporters" wouldnt show up to see their youth represent their club in a tournament overseas, then you must question what kind of supporters the club attracts. Surely someone does not magically support Barcelona only when Messi,Neymar, or Suarez play right? You can't even mention the quality either because I watched the Sanfree$e and Mazembe match and it was.... shocking. Shockingly bad football by two teams supposedly at the top of not only their leagues, but their continents. You can't tell me watching Barcelona or river plate youth would be worse than anything I saw there.

S wrote:

free_cat wrote:

S wrote:
It has still largely been dominated by European teams.
Your idea is not all that wrong but still I don't know if many teams especially European teams would fancy travelling to Asia to play 3 extra games in the midst of a grueling schedule.
In that case, we would've to have the CWC at a different point than in December.

It's just one game more than now....

Which means a longer stay in Dubai , Japan or wherever it's being staged.In the middle of the season that is where they would also have to do some more catching up stuff to do in the league upon returning.

It also means less chance for a Guangzhou Evergrande or some Mexican team to go further and face the best team.Not always a Chinese team will get an opportunity to face Barça in a competitive fixture.

Why look from a European angle or from a viewership angle ? These lesser known teams also should be given more opportunities.
You sitting in Barcelona will have one perspective but millions sitting in China or Japan would be thinking differently.

I'm pretty sure all clubs from outside of Europe would like an 8th strong Club to play against. Also, it would bring much more money. Instead of one market to sell the rights (the country were the european Club plays), they'd have two (or twice the interest in one country).

I admit that a stay of 3 days more might be challenging, but I'm pretty sure European clubs would still like it if it pays off (and it would pay off more than now in terms of €€ and prestige). Let's remember that not so long ago, in 2000 there was a CWC consisting of 8 teams and 4 games, that lasted 2 weeks, and all teams happily went to.

There was also a 2001 CWC planned with 12 teams and a maximum of 5 games, and it was cancelled because who was paying went broke, not because the teams didn't want to go.

IMO, those CWC were much more interesting, but I understand that 4 or 5 games might be too much. That CWC of 2.000 really felt like a CWC.

Betty La Fea wrote:1) Don't have it in poor nations who would better have their money spent elsewhere. There is 0 reason for a country as poor as Modern day Japan to be hosting such a tournament, especially when their sole representative in it is a club which can't even get people to support them even when winning the league.

2)Give it Olympic-style rules where only 1 or two players used can be above the age of 23 or so. This would make it more competitive. There is no reason the likes of Suarez,Neymar,and Messi should be playing against the likes of Guanzhou or even river plate. The European team will always win except in extreme cases(Like when Chelsea brought over Garbage like Mata and got crushed by a brazilian team).Sure European teams might still dominate, but it would produce a better spectacle, and give youth more experience.

I think you are very out of touch with reality.
Japan is one of the richest nations on earth, and it's called CWC, not U23 CWC.

free_cat wrote:

Betty La Fea wrote:1) Don't have it in poor nations who would better have their money spent elsewhere. There is 0 reason for a country as poor as Modern day Japan to be hosting such a tournament, especially when their sole representative in it is a club which can't even get people to support them even when winning the league.

2)Give it Olympic-style rules where only 1 or two players used can be above the age of 23 or so. This would make it more competitive. There is no reason the likes of Suarez,Neymar,and Messi should be playing against the likes of Guanzhou or even river plate. The European team will always win except in extreme cases(Like when Chelsea brought over Garbage like Mata and got crushed by a brazilian team).Sure European teams might still dominate, but it would produce a better spectacle, and give youth more experience.

I think you are very out of touch with reality.
Japan is one of the richest nations on earth, and it's called CWC, not U23 CWC.

The olympics are not called the u23 olympics either are they? Yet they make concessions for the integrity of the competition and the sport, and I feel the same would make the CWC a competitive and more interesting event.

Does a Barcelona fan even feel pride beating the likes of Guangzhou? Sanfree$e has no pride, look at the way Chiba celebrated scoring against Mazembe, that side was barely a football team. Youth would be able to create pride in achieving something, and it would be more competitive.

Also what are you in 1960? Pray tell, how many japanese people do you know RIGHT NOW with ¥30,000 in their pocket? Much less enough to spend on being close to the pitch on a sunday night? If you are under 30 you have never been aware of a world where Japan was NOT in a recession. It seems to me, my dear cat, that you are the one who is deeply out of touch.

how about 8th team will be the runner up in continent league of the previous season cwc holder

eg.

real madrid won 2014 cwc.

2015 cwc, uefa will have 2 club, barca and juv in it.

Not possible

i don't see the appeal. guys who are not former winners would rather sit @ home and enjoy the holidays than travel across the world for this. it doesn't have the appeal nor the benefits of the ucl, even if more teams are added, it will just look like a mid-season friendly tournament, and i mean that with all due respect. i'm sorry to say, but that's what it is. english teams with no xmas break (if they win ucl) will feel this is ridiculous. i'd rather have my team sit at home and relax, these people are not machines, they already play upwards of 60 games in a year, not including friendlies and supercups. then we complain about players getting injured. i gave my opinion on what i felt about the cwc this time last year in the "real madrid vs whatever team we faced in that competition" thread. wrong priorities; the other continental leagues (leagues in the copa libertadores, caf champions league, afc champions league) should be focused on growing their own leagues, and not the cwc

Rebaño Sagrado wrote:Not possible

historically, are all club teams from europe treated club world cup or intercontinental cup in previous edition as a 2nd class cup?

discuss...

I don't think we need another thread about this...

When you say "not possible", do you just decide to ignore that just 10 years ago a much more ambitious CWC was held and and even more ambitious one was planned with the Clubs confirmed but was cancelled by financial reasons?

Betty La Fea wrote:

free_cat wrote:

Betty La Fea wrote:1) Don't have it in poor nations who would better have their money spent elsewhere. There is 0 reason for a country as poor as Modern day Japan to be hosting such a tournament, especially when their sole representative in it is a club which can't even get people to support them even when winning the league.

2)Give it Olympic-style rules where only 1 or two players used can be above the age of 23 or so. This would make it more competitive. There is no reason the likes of Suarez,Neymar,and Messi should be playing against the likes of Guanzhou or even river plate. The European team will always win except in extreme cases(Like when Chelsea brought over Garbage like Mata and got crushed by a brazilian team).Sure European teams might still dominate, but it would produce a better spectacle, and give youth more experience.

I think you are very out of touch with reality.
Japan is one of the richest nations on earth, and it's called CWC, not U23 CWC.

The olympics are not called the u23 olympics either are they? Yet they make concessions for the integrity of the competition and the sport, and I feel the same would make the CWC a competitive and more interesting event.

Does a Barcelona fan even feel pride beating the likes of Guangzhou? Sanfree$e has no pride, look at the way Chiba celebrated scoring against Mazembe, that side was barely a football team. Youth would be able to create pride in achieving something, and it would be more competitive.

Also what are you in 1960? Pray tell, how many japanese people do you know RIGHT NOW with ¥30,000 in their pocket? Much less enough to spend on being close to the pitch on a sunday night? If you are under 30 you have never been aware of a world where Japan was NOT in a recession. It seems to me, my dear cat, that you are the one who is deeply out of touch.

Dude, Olympics is not even a football tournament, and they decided to do the U23 stuff just to differentiate it from the WC. As in FIFA not wanting Olympics to play full squads. And what happens with it is that people doens't care. If it was with all the players it would be almost as important as the WC and much more interesting that it is now. Messi has an olympics medal and everyone just ignores it.

Maybe no Japanese has 30.000Y in their current account (don't make me laugh, of course many of them have em), and still they are one of the richest country in the world. I was in Japan just this summer and they are much richer than my country were at least 30% of people have 30.000Y saved. I would kindly urge you to pull your ass from your butt and 1) travel the world and 2) read some book about world's economy, where you'd learn Japan is top 10% of richest nations and that a poor nation is Somalia or Nicaragua.

The CWC cannot be expanded because Japan can't afford it.

/thread

Art Morte wrote:The CWC cannot be expanded because Japan can't afford it.

/thread

I don't think it's Japan that pays, it's the TV companies, Sponsors, the host , etc.

Threads merged