Re: The curious case of Arsene Wenger and FC Arsenal

by RealGunner Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:24 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:Wait, what?? Are you saying Arsenal is not a super club? Confirmed by RG then

Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern and maybe Juve(need to repeat last season's success in europe) are the only 3-4 super clubs out there.

by RealGunner Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:24 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:I'm not sure you got the point of my post RG.. maybe the image wasn't displayed?

I did, it was in relation to that

by Grande_Milano Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:27 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:Wait, what?? Are you saying Arsenal is not a super club? Confirmed by RG then
Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern and maybe Juve(need to repeat last season's success in europe) are the only 3-4 super clubs out there.

You have strange definition of super club. PSG, Chelsea, City do not fill in your category, why?

by Grande_Milano Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:29 pm

This infographic tells Wenger is carried by creating somewhat stablity in Arsenal. If only managers in other big clubs had an excuse like that

by Hapless_Hans Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:33 pm

RealGunner wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:Wait, what?? Are you saying Arsenal is not a super club? Confirmed by RG then

Barcelona, Madrid, Bayern and maybe Juve(need to repeat last season's success in europe) are the only 3-4 super clubs out there.

I don't know, I have a severe problem with that characterization.
There is absolutely no reason why, in European competition (not nationally), Bayern should be in a different category as Arsenal by default. We don't have more money than you. 10 years ago Arsenal would have been favourites against us.

The differences are down to club management and coaching, not there by default.

I do absolutely believe that someone who doesn't recognize Wengers long term, and to a decent extent ongoing, achievement for Arsenal is pretty much a moron.

However, the relative underachievement IN EUROPE, over 20 years, is not explained by just claiming your not as big a club as the 'European superclubs'. That's too easy a way out.

by urbaNRoots Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:38 pm

Adit wrote:
urbaNRoots wrote:
Adit wrote:They have no definite objective before a season.

They are content with finishing anywhere in top 4, how can a team with such less pressure win any major trophies?

What is their objective this season? what happens when that objective is not achieved ? Nothing. Wenger and players continues. There is no pressure,hence players doesnt even believe in themselves and push themselves to their limit.If Arsenal offered top 4 before the season wenger will probably take it.

Just to answer some of your questions:

1). A team with "such less pressure" won the FA Cup twice in a row and is competing in the league this season.

2) The objective this season is to win atleast one of the major trophies. If Wenger doesn't achieve it, he'll be in a lot of pressure as he was in 2014 when he was close to giving up had we not won the FA Cup.

To be fair, FA cup is a nice trophy to win but it is not a major trophy. There is a reason Hullcity,Aston Villa and Wigan Athletic are making the final's consecutively and thats because the big boys gives much more importance to finishing in top 4 instead of FA cup. It is a small trophy that is nice to win but that should not be an objective for a big club. Arsenal's minimum objective should be to challenge for the Premier League title.

Pressure lol, everything is relative and Wenger having pressure at the end of the season is nothing compared to other managers of big clubs. They are actually in danger of losing their job,comparing their situation to Wenger's pressure is well....not fair. As far as pressure go do you honestly believe Arsenal pressures their managers and players as much as other big clubs?

Goonerjay has stated it better. Clubs point of view is that wenger goes when he wants to go

is that what you call pressure? isnt that the biggest example of pressureless job?

FA Cup is not a small trophy lol, I have got nothing else to say to that.

As for pressure no he doesn't have the pressure that other managers have, but as RG said he is a club legend, our best manager in the club's history. What Arsene Wenger has done for this club during a period where most top managers wouldn't get close is simply astonishing and repaying by sacking him after winning two FA Cup's back to back and finally entering the years where he is free to spend would be *bleep* nuts.

by Hapless_Hans Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:47 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:This infographic tells Wenger is carried by creating somewhat stablity in Arsenal. If only managers in other big clubs had an excuse like that

'Somewhat stability'?

Since taking over, he's finished top 4 every season. 20 years. Finished top 2 regularly, won the league 3 times, until Chelsea and later City entered with brute force spending.
And make no mistake, even before, when he was winning the league, Wenger was heavily outspent by United, Liverpool, Chelsea (before Roman), and probably *bleep* Newcastle or some shit.

You think this is no pressure? You think this kind of stability at the top is automatic?
The stability Wenger achieved at Arsenal is awe-inspiring.

You have to win enough games EVERY season. You think a new manager, any new manager, will do that AND THEN SOME?
Only half a handful managers come to mind..

There's more than enough questionable or critique-worthy things Wenger does once you have recognized that huge achievement. But not before you recognize it.

by RealGunner Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:48 pm

Should have figured that this was a troll thread.

'somewhat stability'
'excuses'

Laughing

Hans +1

by futbol Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:50 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Newcastle or some shit.

You are going to let this slide, Mole?

by Grande_Milano Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:56 pm

Its funny cause majority of Pool fans do not think that Rafa's best period in Liverpool (when they were triumphing in CL, reaching finals and semis there, winning english cups) was all that great. And Wenger's 2006-Now is worse than that.

by chad4401 Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:57 pm

end of the day arsenal have money, you guys don't need to buy superstars and spend 80 mil, just buy some good to great players 4 or 5, 20-40 mil each, have depth and competition for places, plenty of those players around, waiting on a ozil level players to be rejected by their club to snap them up is Laughing

.

by Jay29 Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:04 pm

That's the case now, but wasn't the case between 2006 and 2013. That's what some people don't seem to understand when they ask why the club kept faith with him despite him not winning trophies.

by chad4401 Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:15 pm

I remember barca and mancity raiding your team which is understandable, but tbf frank deals always out there, just look at porto they keep finding gems one after the other, i feel arsenal can do the same tbh.

by FennecFox7 Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:13 pm

arsenal had cesc, rvp, nasri among others who left after a couple seasons
on the other hand with the new stadium arsenal were pretty much bankrupt
theyve only had money to spend in the last couple years or so and have won b2b fa cups.

not too bad. although he will pay this season for not getting a clinical striker

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:33 pm

What's up with this "Arsenal is not a big club and can't compete with them" mentality?

Arsenal are: top 10 in revenue, top 10 in clubs by valuation, top 10 in worldwide fans, top 10 in football brands, etc. They also have a huge cash account balance, and OK some of that needs to go towards servicing debts and payment instalments for players, but there's still a fair amount left over after that.

The fact of the matter is that Arsenal are in a great financial situation, they are just unwilling to make the necessary investments and change in personel to challenge for the top. They seem content to just stay where they are.

I wonder if the EPL losing the 4th CL spot is what Arsenal would need to finally get their act together? They seemed to be following a strategy of signing one star per summer (Ozil, Alexis) but that was not followed through this time. Their weaknesses are well known (DM, CF) for years but they have not been addressed.

by El Gunner Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:56 pm

Thank you RG, Hans, Jay and Urban. SO much people are quick to criticise when they only see the things from the outside.

We obviously follow a different philosophy centred around values and tradition at our club and we stick with it.

For many fans Wenger's ultimate test is this current contract he is under. Of course we want to win the big trophies, but we have always been realistic and we know and accept the decisions the club makes even when their is occasionally civil war amongst the fanbase.

What should we do? Go and support another club? Send an email to Wenger and the board to tell them to do this and to do that?

by Grande_Milano Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:46 pm

Its time we accept this man is not an elite coach

by LeBéninois Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:51 pm

Grande_Milano wrote:Its time we accept this man is not an elite coach

He's past it , no big deal.

by free_cat Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:35 am

He was always kinda bad. He was once great assembling great teams for small money (Henrys, Vieiras, Cescs, etc), but he was always not very good tactical wise, and his biggest failure as a coach: he is probably THE WORST coach ever in terms of phyisical preparation. His players suffer twice the average injuries than any other team.

I remember how Cesc was unable to stay more than 4 months injury free under Wenger, and after leaving Arsenal, he has been mostly injury free, and the same happens to most of his players.

Wenger is an injury terrorist who should not be allowed anywhere near a professional footballer.

by Raptorgunner Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:20 pm

LeBéninois wrote:
Grande_Milano wrote:Its time we accept this man is not an elite coach

He's past it , no big deal.

The curious case of Arsene Wenger and FC Arsenal - Page 2 2CE94D3700000578-0-image-a-12_1443697472759

by Winter is Coming Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:26 pm

How do Arsenal fans really feel about him currently? If Pep and Klopp were willing to come this summer would you be willing to bid farewell to Wenger this summer? Even if they don't do you still think he should walk? I know you lot watch Arsenal more so then other members on GL, so you'd have a better idea, I'm not just talking about this due to the losses in group stages, but overall the past 4-5 years.

by Art Morte Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:41 pm

The man is class and will show it again this season.

by Myesyats Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:23 pm

Art Morte wrote:The man is class and will show it again this season.

Not in CL though hmm

by Jay29 Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:51 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:How do Arsenal fans really feel about him currently? If Pep and Klopp were willing to come this summer would you be willing to bid farewell to Wenger this summer? Even if they don't do you still think he should walk? I know you lot watch Arsenal more so then other members on GL, so you'd have a better idea, I'm not just talking about this due to the losses in group stages, but overall the past 4-5 years.

Ultimately, it depends on who you ask. Some would be happy for him to go now, some wouldn't mind if he walked at the end of the season, some want him to see out his deal and then go and some would want him to stay forever. There's always a divide in the fanbase between those who think we're not progressing enough with him, and those who think there's nobody else out there who could do any better (better the devil you know and all that). And a lot of fans will flip-flop between views depending on how well the team is doing at the time.

If there's one the fans are united on, though, it's that this current period is where he really needs to deliver something. If the signs aren't there that that will happen then I think the majority probably would be willing to replace him in the summer.

by urbaNRoots Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:06 pm

For me it remains the same, if Wenger can make this team compete for the PL/FA Cup and win it then I'd love him to stay, nothing would please me more.

Should he not be able to do that though, I'd like to see a change especially since the Klopp's/Ancelotti's and maybe more in the summer will be available.

by izzy Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:13 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:For me it remains the same, if Wenger can make this team compete for the PL/FA Cup and win it then I'd love him to stay, nothing would please me more.

Should he not be able to do that though, I'd like to see a change especially since the Klopp's/Ancelotti's and maybe more in the summer will be available.

Really? Another FA Cup run?

Shouldn't it be legit contenders in the PL and progress in the CL rather than that?

You would be ok with another FA Cup if he fails in the PL again?

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