zizzle wrote:You know that stats can only take you so far when it's used to compare a proven winner to a proven flop.

Who's the proven flop ? Messi ? I can't believe you are serious.

Doc wrote:Comparing Zidane and Messi international career can be best summed up in a nice and neat way:
Zidane won a WC and a Euro
Messi won an under 20 youth tournament and an Olympic medal.

Of course, you are more than welcome to fill in the blanks with their goals, assists, importance, wide assists but all that would just lead you to the above statements.

THIS

Only an idiot would claim Messi has had a better International career than Zidane.

Great, now comes the zero value mods with zero arguments insulting posters.

There's still zero arguments in this thread for Zidane's NT-career compared to Messi's.

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC14

4 - 23 - 46 - 9 - Messi
1 - 10 - 25 - 7 - Di Maria

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC06

3 - 12 - 20 - 1 - Henry
3 - 12 - 15 - 4 - Zidane

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC98

2 - 7 - 18 - 19 - Thuram
2 - 18 - 12 -  5 - Zidane

Same story in WC98.

In 2006, sure. We had Malouda and Ribery with Henry to help a 34 year old zidane. 1998 and 2000? Nothing. Guivarc'h and Dugarry were our strikers lol.

goal scorers in KO stages for France in 1998 :
vs Paraguay : Blanc in extra time.
vs Italy : 0-0
vs Croatia : Thuram
final : Zidane and Petit .
the only offensive players to score from open play were Trezeguet and Henry in the group stage , both left out of the starting 11 in favor of more " experienced " players .
there is no way Aguero was worse than Guivarch in 98 or Ducrappy in 2000 .

sportsczy wrote:In 2006, sure.  We had Malouda and Ribery with Henry to help a 34 year old zidane.  1998 and 2000?  Nothing.  Guivarc'h and Dugarry were our strikers lol.

 



Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC14

4 - 23 - 46 - 9 - Messi
1 - 10 - 25 - 7 - Di Maria

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC06

3 - 12 - 20 - 1 - Henry
3 - 12 - 15 - 4 - Zidane

Goals - Chances Created - Dribbles - Tackles - WC98

2 - 7 - 18 - 19 - Thuram
2 - 18 - 12 -  5 - Zidane

Same story in WC98.

Harmonica... You realize everyone ridicules you and your sourceless stats, right? It's getting shameful now. Even Barca fans turned on you YEARS ago. Do you ever get a clue?

sportsczy wrote:Harmonica...  You realize everyone ridicules you and your sourceless stats, right?  It's getting shameful now.  Even Barca fans turned on you YEARS ago.  Do you ever get a clue?

Umm, they are stats recorder by OPTA, and the actual source is the actual matches amazingly.

You should know by now that even if you were my brother, I would always call your bullshit out. Because I can't stand ignorance.

sportsczy wrote:In 2006, sure. We had Malouda and Ribery with Henry to help a 34 year old zidane. 1998 and 2000? Nothing. Guivarc'h and Dugarry were our strikers lol.

France 98 and France 06 were a better team than Argentina 14-15. Are we really going to argue over that ? Anyways Germany wins that final 8 out of 10 times . Only Messi individual brillance could have made Argentina won and he almost did that with that only real occasion he got.

Harmonica wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Harmonica...  You realize everyone ridicules you and your sourceless stats, right?  It's getting shameful now.  Even Barca fans turned on you YEARS ago.  Do you ever get a clue?

Umm, they are stats recorder by OPTA, and the actual source is the actual matches amazingly.

You should know by now that even if you were my brother, I would always call your bullshit out. Because I can't stand ignorance.

Just slack it a little bit with the stats.

I don't think anyone realizes how good Argentina NT is right now. The probably have the best attack in the world right now. But it's never Messi's fault when they lose. It's always the manager or player(s) X. But when they win, Messi's the best player in the universe. Foolishness.

How's it Messi's fault that Aguero & Higuain are perennial bottlers?

Gil wrote:How's it Messi's fault that Aguero & Higuain are perennial bottlers?

Nobody expected anything from that scrubs. They wanted dat Messi moment, but he didn't deliver.

LeBéninois wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Harmonica...  You realize everyone ridicules you and your sourceless stats, right?  It's getting shameful now.  Even Barca fans turned on you YEARS ago.  Do you ever get a clue?

Umm, they are stats recorder by OPTA, and the actual source is the actual matches amazingly.

You should know by now that even if you were my brother, I would always call your bullshit out. Because I can't stand ignorance.

Just slack it a little bit with the stats.

https://i.imgur.com/kYXeaZi.gif

and how do we know you are using opta? prove it. its that simple

also using tackles to display superiority of a player. jesus christ save me from this stupidity. i think we should compare xavi to de jong in 2010. hey guys, de jong had more tackles. he was a way more dominang player!!

I read the title, and then I took a brief glance at the OP and saw that it included the word "involved". I immediately scrolled down and clicked "post reply" so that I don't have to see that abomination and now I'm typing this. After I post this I'm going to close my internet browser and pretend I never saw this.

Pippo wrote:I read the title, and then I took a brief glance at the OP and saw that it included the word "involved". I immediately scrolled down and clicked "post reply" so that I don't have to see that abomination and now I'm typing this. After I post this I'm going to close my internet browser and pretend I never saw this.

Harmonica wrote:The defense only worked because of the offence, every team bunkers against Argentina because of the offense. Every team adjusts it's tactic against Messi, they have to mark him with couple players, which is straight out of fluid buildup play.

I don't disagree with any of these points. Even though we were hyper defensive a ton of teams parked against us.

That's no different than every other great player.... Zidane was man covered by Ze Roberto against Brazil in 2006 for example and he was always man covered when on NT because France played with two DMs and him as the only true creative force there. It was dumb not to man mark him or try to.

If you go to youtube and watch that Brazil game, watch where he was picked up to start the game.... in his own half right in front of the defense. After he burned the man marking by dribbling past them, they got scared and dropped off a little. Didn't work either

Is there a game in elimination rounds against an elite NT team where Messi just transcended everything? I don't remember one. I think that's where the separation is made on NT level... Messi hasn't had an iconic moment in a massive game against a massive opponent yet with NT while Zidane had several in his career.

Wouldn't have this convo is messi chose yo play for Spain

Am i the only one who just scrolls over those random stats everytime? I mean, i can't even bear for a moment to comprehend such meaningless crap each and every time/post. Thank God, messi didnt play in the Ronaldo/zidane era. They would have completely destroyed him at intl level and that would have seriously affected his legacy and reduced his and cr7's balon d'or awards to just one each even whilst having lesser stats. I consider Ronaldo, Zidane and Dinho as bigger talents too. My gahd, those guys oozed greatness all over their urine (especially pre injury ronaldo). Btw, are we trying to pretend argentina doesnt have a wc squad?

I'm trying to understand how you ooze greatness all over your urine... that must be a direct translation from a saying in another language to English My father used to do stuff like this all the time... Farsi has some of the greatest curses in the world Impossible to properly translate.

My memory really is faulty because I can't remember Dugarry being as awful as Sports and Farfan are implying.

He scored 8 goals in 55 caps for France....  for a CF.  People made fun of Dugarry in France because the rumor was that he only made the team because he was one of ZIdane's best friends.  Guivarc'h, the other starting CF during the 1998-2000 period, had 1 goal in 14 caps.  He made the team during the 1997 year, became a started in 1998 and was gone for good in 1999 lol.

Really too bad Anelka was such an idiot.  They actually wanted to start him in 1999 after his breakout season but he made everyone mad on NT pretty quickly looool.  Got 10 caps and 2 goals though but the job could have been his.  Got a double in a friendly against England in that period and that was it.

So the 3 main CFs from 1997 until 2000 had a total of 79 caps and scored a grand total of 11 goals looooooooooool.