Jurgen Klopp likes this thread.

lmaoooooooo Rekt by Bendtner. Pep.

He, like others before him, failed to heed the most important principle in German footballing history. You don't take off Thomas Mueller when trophies are on the line.

This being said, the result today is entirely irrelevant to his future at Bayern.

But again with the Müller off and the immediate losing of the match after... He just doesn't learn.

It's really fascinating that Pep just doesn't understand that one simply doesn't sub off Thomas Müller...

Oh come on, Muller was having a stinker. My only complaint was Pep didn't take him off earlier. Besides, this is more of a preseason friendly then a 'trophies on the line' game.

VivaStPauli wrote:But again with the Müller off and the immediate losing of the match after... He just doesn't learn.

Yeah because that's the reason lol, i heard of grasping at straws but this is ridiculous. Not like Muller was any good anyway.

Yeah loads of people hype Mueller up to the heavens, I don't get it because there's nothing special about him imo

Nah that's not true, but the idea that Muller who did nothing in the game was the reason Wolfsburg equalised on the side where he didn't play is absolutely hilarious.

So you sayin man is a glorified willian ya?

Bayern / German fans just trying to cling on to the last things German about Bayern

Dnmac4 wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

linetty wrote:

Messi isn't key to play tiki taka... He's just a bonus

Messi's the reason he won what he won at Barca

Spain went on the best run in the history of international football playing Tiki Taka without Messi.

More than half the squad were Barca players and drilled under Pep.  VDB being a great manager just let it keep on going.

You don't need Messi to win playing Tiki Taka and Pep is certainly able to win playing his style without Messi.

But when you have the best player in the world and maybe of all time, yes he is a big reason you win games.

Smh it makes no sense for Pep getting so much credit for Spain success, people seem to forget about this man



This tiki taka was talked about even before Pep managed his first Barca game. This great Spain run started with Luis Aragones.

Mueller can hardly be said to have had a great game but he's the heart and soul of the Bayern team, subbing off the most clutch player on the pitch in a final is asking for trouble, especially for mental midget Goetze.

Spoiler:

Heart and Soul is a meaningless buzzword just like Tiki Taka is

You say that because your squad has none.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Heart and Soul is a meaningless buzzword just like Tiki Taka is

Tiki taka is not meaningless, it's as simple as it gets. Tik tak tik tak = one touch passing.

Nah it just doesn't mean anything, you either perform or you don't.

None of this heart, soul and grit nonsense lol.

In all seriousness though, I might have understood if Pep took Mueller off with half an hour to go in order to alter the way the team was going to play but what was there to be gained in removing him for the last five minutes of play with the risk of the game still going to penalties? Goetze wasn't going to offer more defensively. He wasn't going to be able to provide the same aerial outlet with the side being put under increasing pressure as Wolfsburg were forced to chase and it's highly debatable whether he adds much on the counter in the final stages of the game without a reference point given Lewa had already been withdrawn.

It didn't make Bayern more potent and it didn't make them more solid, it was a substitution made in order to avoid the press talking about Goetze being left on the bench which instead robbed Bayern of a reliable leader with the prospect of penalties still on the cards.

They lost because Boateng got beat at his near post by Nicklas *bleep* Bendtner.

Sometimes the need to analyze something is zero.

They didn't lose though, they drew.

They lost on penalties, something that also seems lost on all the people who think this somehow reflects on Pep's capacity to overcome Wolfsburg in the league.

In any case, if Bendtner had missed it would not have justified Goetze's pointlessly late introduction. The result is irrelevant when it comes to evaluating the decision.

My viewpoint may be overly influenced by the fact that I've always hated late substitutions however, I find them insulting to players. Unless someone is visibly tired, it's largely pointless to shuffle your squad when winning so someone can barely get a chance to touch the ball.

It also just seems that this particular substitution is cursed.

VivaStPauli wrote:It also just seems that this particular substitution is cursed.

I don't believe in curses, it's all coincidence tbh.

I like Muller but if he's not impacting the game and is taking off i don't think it means anything.

Dost, I think Gotze was introduced to see the game out, as he provides much more control than Muller. Muller was playing as a sort of striker at that point in the game, whereas Gotze would be able to drop into midfield and give Bayern an extra man. The idea (at least from what I can tell) was to slow the game down and pass the last five minutes away, something which is very difficult to do with Muller on the pitch.

I can understand the idea that Goetze might give you more in midfield than Mueller but given that Lewa had already been withdrawn my immediate concern would be releasing the pressure on the Wolfsburg CBs in possession to let Naldo step up into midfield and give them an extra man as they push for an equaliser. If Goetze were playing with greater confidence right now I think it would be fine to have him drop deep from the central position, make the sensible decision and help recycle possession but given what we've seen in the past few months from Bayern? It seems more of a risk than a guarantee.

If the idea was to slow the game down and play it out I'd have been more inclined to take Costa off but given the threat he had been posing to Vierinha all game and Alaba finally starting to get involved on the overlap it's again far from ideal to pull him with space opening up on the counter. I feel that if Bayern had their full bench available we'd have seen someone else arrive instead of Goetze entirely rather than Pep trying to accomplish something specific with him.

VivaStPauli wrote:It also just seems that this particular substitution is cursed.

Finale dahoam says hello.

Anyway, curse or no curse, it must be possible to sub off Müller when he's cucumbering around all game (Denglish alert).

On Saturday, 83rd minute, that sub was entirely reasonable, nothing wrong with it.