That kid was from Afghanistan Art. We'll have to close the borders from Asia as well now I suppose.

LeBéninois wrote:Waht about people from North Africa and middle east already living in the west countries?. Most of the killing are made by people who were born/grew up in Europe.

I've answered this a several times in this thread already.

RealGunner wrote:That kid was from Afghanistan Art. We'll have to close the borders from Asia as well now I suppose.

North Africa, Middle East and Afghanistan, then.

There are rumours the guy might have been from Pakistan posing as someone from Afghanistan, I heard on German news on TV.

Many ISIS *bleep* are from places like Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. That's why I said Asia just to be more secured.

This thread gonna be the next Elysium film.

RealGunner wrote:Many ISIS *bleep* are from places like Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. That's why I said Asia just to be more secured.

EU's refugee deal with Turkey is that everyone arriving to Europe through that territory will be instantly returned to Turkey unless they claim for an asylum. Meaning that Pakistanis and Indians have little chances of successfully coming to Europe as refugees nowadays, for they have no grounds to apply for asylum. But I'm sure you knew this already, given your hugely insightful posts in this thread.

RealGunner wrote:Many ISIS *bleep* are from places like Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. That's why I said Asia just to be more secured.

bruhhh India has confirmed 23 people uptil now who have joined ISIS (Will be obviously more but its still nothing compared to other countries). Im proud of the fact we are the only nation that handles this shit so well.
There are 172 million Muslims living in our country at peace and harmony bar Kashmir imagine what happens to us if they infiltrate us clearly a lot don't care but just putting it out there. India should not be listed in the same line as of now.

ISIS is not a major issue as of now of us but it will be soon but we aren't going to close borders that's for sure for different reasons.

Yeah, don't really understand what you're trying to say there.

Art Morte wrote:

RealGunner wrote:Many ISIS *bleep* are from places like Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. That's why I said Asia just to be more secured.

EU's refugee deal with Turkey is that everyone arriving to Europe through that territory will be instantly returned to Turkey unless they claim for an asylum. Meaning that Pakistanis and Indians have little chances of successfully coming to Europe as refugees nowadays, for they have no grounds to apply for asylum. But I'm sure you knew this already, given your hugely insightful posts in this thread.

Not really. Asians have been coming into Europe for a long time on Asylum visas. They don't have to be victims of war to get an Asylum as the requirements for an Asylum includes many other reasons. Many of those are now in the watchlist if not their offsprings. Not to mention that one of the perpetrator for 7/7 bombing was born in Jamaica and immigrated to the UK. So I suppose Jamaica is also one of the country we have to close the border against.

I am just using your flawless logic here tbh. I don't even have to post anything 'insightful' to show how ridiculous you are being and how ignorant your arguments are. I have to steep down to your level to counter these arguments so if you do think my posts are nonsensical, then please read your own first and then see why I have to make posts like these

In any case. I am not going to argue anymore. Not worth risking our friendship for this tbh.

The thing about closing the borders is that it will likely breed more extremists/terrorists, who will use reasoning like "you let our brothers and sisters die, so now we are going to make you die."

I don't think closing the borders would be that easy of an immediate solution.

Art Morte wrote:Yeah, don't really understand what you're trying to say there.

I was talking to RG. We don't need to quote each other anymore on this topic, I think we've established that. Ill edit my post to make it more appropriate.

Trump would be proud, build a wall around Europe!

The below is online news source. The on ground sources say at least 80 civilians have been killed. Death toll is rising too. so far

5 Schools destroyed
- and a Hospital

BEIRUT — Syrian activists say U.S.-led coalition airstrikes on Islamic State-held villages in northern Syria have killed at least 56 civilians.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says at least 56 civilians were killed, including 11 children.

Another activist group, the Local Coordination Committees, says dozens of civilians, mostly families, were killed.

The area has seen intense fighting between extremists and members of the U.S.-backed Syria Democratic Forces that have been advancing under the cover of intense airstrikes by the U.S.-led coalition.

On Monday, similar airstrikes in the IS-held town of Manbij nearby reportedly killed at least 15 civilians.

Copyright 2016 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Death toll is supposedly now 150 mainly children and women

Art Morte wrote:

McLewis wrote:Punishing an entire religion for the actions of a few is not the answer, Art. That's ideological laziness.

I get that you're tired of these attacks, but throwing up your hands and saying "close the border" is not particularly productive. It's not going to stop these attacks. That's akin to a child throwing their hands around their ears and screaming "make it stop!". It won't help.

Frankly, I don't know what the answer is to solving this problem. It's a hard one, especially for a country like France that is so diverse. I just know it's tempting for many to want to slide into the, insipid,  yet casual bigotry of scrutinizing someone based on their religion or ethnicity, but I think that needs to be resisted and there must be realization that harder work will need to be done to root out these 1-2 person terrorist cells, these lone wolves, and other threats. There's nothing to fear from hard work as the easiest road taken is rarely the best road taken.

But that's the question we have to ask, do we want to stop these terrorist attacks in Europe? The answer is obviously 'yes'. The only way to do that? Don't let people from these "terrorism territories" into Europe. That's literally the only way. I don't care anymore if 99,999% of them are harmless; if that 00,001% can kill over 80 European civilians simply by having a truck, that's a price I'm not willing to pay.

I reject the notion that what you propose is the "only" way. Occam's Razor is again very tantalizing because it's the easiest and most intellectually convenient way you see to resolving this problem, yet it's the ideological equivalent to taking a jackhammer to a nail when a simple hammer would do.

I think the better question that must be asked is what are France doing to help these men who are ideological prey for ISIS? What are Belgium doing as well? The profile that ISIS are targeting is clear now: Disenfranchised immigrants from North Africa and the Middle east with criminal records. What can the French and Belgians governments (as well as their local governments) do to bring these men into the national fold so that they don't feel such hatred to the point of radicalization? I ask myself this same question here in the States, where it's just as much a problem. The solution takes time, time that we may not have.

Maybe we should look at the East Asian immigrants for guidance, with their low rates of drug abuse, crime and terrorism, and economic success.

For some darn reason people calling them "chinks" and being dicks to them, doesn't economically cripple them and doesn't cause them to revert to primitive barbarism. I wonder how they have survived and thrived in the evil west...

DuringTheWar wrote:Maybe we should look at the East Asian immigrants for guidance, with their low rates of drug abuse, crime and terrorism, and economic success.

For some darn reason people calling them "chinks" and being dicks to them, doesn't economically cripple them and doesn't cause them to revert to primitive barbarism. I wonder how they have survived and thrived in the evil west...

Funny how you forget to mention that Arab Americans in the us also have low rates of drug abuse, crime, and yes, terrorism.

And on top of that, they are one of the most successful minorities. But I'm sure your tiny little brain can't conceive that, just how you thought North Africans and middle easterners weren't Caucasians either. Dumbass

RealGunner wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

RealGunner wrote:Many ISIS *bleep* are from places like Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. That's why I said Asia just to be more secured.

EU's refugee deal with Turkey is that everyone arriving to Europe through that territory will be instantly returned to Turkey unless they claim for an asylum. Meaning that Pakistanis and Indians have little chances of successfully coming to Europe as refugees nowadays, for they have no grounds to apply for asylum. But I'm sure you knew this already, given your hugely insightful posts in this thread.

Not really. Asians have been coming into Europe for a long time on Asylum visas. They don't have to be victims of war to get an Asylum as the requirements for an Asylum includes many other reasons. Many of those are now in the watchlist if not their offsprings. Not to mention that one of the perpetrator for 7/7 bombing was born in Jamaica and immigrated to the UK. So I suppose Jamaica is also one of the country we have to close the border against.

I am just using your flawless logic here tbh. I don't even have to post anything 'insightful' to show how ridiculous you are being and how ignorant your arguments are. I have to steep down to your level to counter these arguments so if you do think my posts are nonsensical, then please read your own first and then see why I have to make posts like these

In any case. I am not going to argue anymore. Not worth risking our friendship for this tbh.

One Jamaican terrorist in the 21th century is hardly a problem so big that measures on Jamaicans need to be taken. Dozens of North African and Middle Eastern terrorists only in the last few years is a massive problem that requires action.

McLewis wrote:

Art Morte wrote:

McLewis wrote:Punishing an entire religion for the actions of a few is not the answer, Art. That's ideological laziness.

I get that you're tired of these attacks, but throwing up your hands and saying "close the border" is not particularly productive. It's not going to stop these attacks. That's akin to a child throwing their hands around their ears and screaming "make it stop!". It won't help.

Frankly, I don't know what the answer is to solving this problem. It's a hard one, especially for a country like France that is so diverse. I just know it's tempting for many to want to slide into the, insipid,  yet casual bigotry of scrutinizing someone based on their religion or ethnicity, but I think that needs to be resisted and there must be realization that harder work will need to be done to root out these 1-2 person terrorist cells, these lone wolves, and other threats. There's nothing to fear from hard work as the easiest road taken is rarely the best road taken.

But that's the question we have to ask, do we want to stop these terrorist attacks in Europe? The answer is obviously 'yes'. The only way to do that? Don't let people from these "terrorism territories" into Europe. That's literally the only way. I don't care anymore if 99,999% of them are harmless; if that 00,001% can kill over 80 European civilians simply by having a truck, that's a price I'm not willing to pay.

I reject the notion that what you propose is the "only" way. Occam's Razor is again very tantalizing because it's the easiest and most intellectually convenient way you see to resolving this problem, yet it's the ideological equivalent to taking a jackhammer to a nail when a simple hammer would do.

I think the better question that must be asked is what are France doing to help these men who are ideological prey for ISIS? What are Belgium doing as well? The profile that ISIS are targeting is clear now: Disenfranchised immigrants from North Africa and the Middle east with criminal records. What can the French and Belgians governments (as well as their local governments) do to bring these men into the national fold so that they don't feel such hatred to the point of radicalization? I ask myself this same question here in the States, where it's just as much a problem. The solution takes time, time that we may not have.

This is a good question, that what can be done to decrease the risk of radicalisation of NA and ME backgrounded people. Unfortunately, though, there does not appear to be much anything that can be done. They have just the same rights as anyone else. I don't know what more can be done than to treat them equally to everyone else. Efforts for greater integration, perhaps in the education system, but these efforts will never reach perfect success. Especially not now when the situation has gotten so bad already.

To me, the only sure way to decrease the risk of terrorist attacks in Europe is to stop taking people from these areas in. A country with no NA or ME backgrounded people in it will not suffer a terrorist attack carried out by those people. I know that is harsh, but too many people are dying from terrorism carried out by them, in a part of the world that has already achieved peace.

Another thing I believe should be done to decrease the risk of terrorism in Europe (and America) is an exit strategy for military actions in the Middle East. Bombing and fighting over there will kill some baddies, but it will also spawn more potential terrorists. Both over there and in the West among the NA and ME population. It is such a half-assed attempt anyway to only use aerial strikes in trying to get rid of a semi-guerrilla enemy (ISIS). Get out of the place and close the borders to them. Consider re-opening them some time in the future if / when not so many of the NA and ME people see all Europeans and North Americans as enemies.

Americans need to accept a lot of the blame here, They bomb Syria, This does create a number of the refugees and the closest place for them is Europe.

But then they are the only ones doing something right in a way. Unreal headache.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/syria-least-85-civilians-feared-dead-after-us-air-strike-mistake-1571600

86 dead in Syria. All civilians too. Yet, our euro supremacists here don't give a shit. So, dickheads, explain this one

"Mistake"

One could really argue this as terrorism. How will shit like this not create new extremists in the Middle East?

Just a quick question. Why does everyone look to Europe to pick up the pieces. Why don't the Middle East clean up the mess. Would it not make more sense if the Middle East took in the refugees. They would have no problems adapting to a new life there.

Not a terrorist act I know but what kind of man goes on holiday with his family and stabs a woman and 3 children because he didn't like the way they were dressed. I couldn't beleave the story when I read about it. Crazy

Unique wrote:Just a quick question. Why does everyone look to Europe to pick up the pieces. Why don't the Middle East clean up the mess. Would it not make more sense if the Middle East took in the refugees. They would have no problems adapting to a new life there.

No of estimated arrivals:

Turkey: 2,733,850
Lebanon: 1,500,000
Jordan: 1,265,000
Saudi Arabia: 420,000
UAE: 242,000
Kuwait: 155,000
Egypt: 117,702


Germany: 600,000

Angela Merkel promised that her country would take 800,000 asylum seekers this year

Belgium: 15,951
France: 11,694
UK: 9,467

Nishankly wrote:

Unique wrote:Just a quick question. Why does everyone look to Europe to pick up the pieces. Why don't the Middle East clean up the mess. Would it not make more sense if the Middle East took in the refugees. They would have no problems adapting to a new life there.

No of estimated arrivals:

Turkey: 2,733,850
Lebanon: 1,500,000
Jordan: 1,265,000
Saudi Arabia: 420,000
UAE: 242,000
Kuwait: 155,000
Egypt: 117,702


Germany: 600,000

Angela Merkel promised that her country would take 800,000 asylum seekers this year

Belgium: 15,951
France: 11,694
UK: 9,467

trust me when I tell you more than 10k would have made it to the uk. But even some of them rich Middle East countries could do more. The transition to a Middle East county would be far easier than they do in Europe.

Yes but its not even 1/4th of the number that moved into the Middle East. There's a limit to how much these countries can take in as well, They have the same concerns as you.

Nishankly wrote:Yes but its not even 1/4th of the number that moved into the Middle East. There's a limit to how much these countries can take in as well, They have the same concerns as you.

it's all a big mess tbh. And there is no light at the end of the tunnel