i don't use wiki for anything because it's written by amateurs (literally).... i'll see if i can find the source. But i remember clearly hearing a TV guy use it to describe Cruyff's Barca back in the day. It wasn't used when Cruyff was still the manager. It was after. In the early part of the 2000s when talking about Cruyff's Barca.

Yes it does...  Pep has taken total football and taken it to the extreme.  Tiki taka was the spanish media's word for total football originally.  Now, tiki taka is used to describe Pep's style as a secondary definition.

Words can have 2 meanings and take on additional definitions over time.  Look in a dictionary.  You'll see plenty like that. That's why they publish new editions of the dictionary every year... language is not static.

You don't need to trust Wikipedia, you can quickly jump to the sources below which references to books about football linguistics and articles from El Pais, el Periodico etc.

Even if you heard the term used before in the 90s by some commentator, which is unlikely, but even if true - it will be for the same reason as it happened in 2006: for the quick passing sound of the ball. I mean it's pretty much self-explanatory: Tiki-taka ... tik tok tik tok tik tok. That's what it is. People interpreting "false 9", possession and whatever into it are just doing that ... interpreting what they want.

Fußball wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Where dat kudos button at ffs

Giving me back my 100 % would do. 75 % makes me look like some thug but a poverty thug because real thugs are on 25 % or have a "banned" tag but can still post. Just for posting some titties.

you'd deserve 125% for this tbh

Not before the 90s... i said sometime in the early to mid 00s to talk about Barca's game as it was happening.  It wasn't describing a system.   It was used to describe the passing style:  "Estamos tocando tiki-taka tiki-taka."  It was used colloquially.  It then became the Spanish word for total football and then evolved further into describing its own style of play later...

It's silly to say that "tiki taka" doesn't mean anything because it most certainly refers to and is used to define something very specific now.  If you don't like the word itself, that's fair enough.  But to say that the word doesn't exist is just ridiculous

Fußball wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Where dat kudos button at ffs

Giving me back my 100 % would do. 75 % makes me look like some thug but a poverty thug because real thugs are on 25 % or have a "banned" tag but can still post. Just for posting some titties.

i got -25 % for speaking up against a mod

soviet socialist republic of GL

sportsczy wrote:Not before the 90s... i said sometime in the early to mid 00s to talk about Barca's game as it was happening.  It wasn't describing a system.   It was used to describe the passing style:  "Estamos tocando tiki-taka tiki-taka."  It was used colloquially.  It then became the Spanish word for total football and then evolved further into describing its own style of play later...  

How can a word "evolve" into something that completely contradicts what it described in the past? So on the one hand you heard someone describe Cruyff's Barca with "tiki taka" who had Romario upfront and it was clearly used in 2006 when Spain started upfront with Villa, Torres AND Raul at the same time. Barca under Pep has also evidently used Eto'o as a 9 where he scored 36 goals in a season. Messi in the middle came later, towards the very end of 08/09. On the other hand you just said:

sportsczy wrote:they don't want to get pigeon-holed.  Even if they deny it... there is a very specific style to Pep and it's not the same as the dutch one, even if it's based on it.  The spacing is smaller, the play is slower and the scheme doesn't use a 9.

So did Barca under Pep become "tiki-taka" only after Messi was moved to the middle? Was Spain 2006 "tiki-taka" or not?

So basically there is no real definition to "tiki-taka"? People just use it to describe Barca's and Spain's football arbitrarly? There is just some loose connection somewhere about "possession" and "passing".

What is "tiki-taka"?

sportsczy wrote:If you don't like the word itself, that's fair enough.  But to say that the word doesn't exist is just ridiculous

What do you mean "doesn't exist"? Who said it doesn't exist? It's clearly a word. lol I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's a word with no real definition. Like "jogo bonito" generally describing "beautiful football" but nothing about specific tactical schemes or playing style. You can play "jogo bonito" with 3 strikers or only 1 false #9.

of course it can  a word is a word.  I can decide to call anything I choose to "tiki taka"...  for example, i can choose to name the process that my wife uses to do laundry "tiki taka".  It's just a name.  It's not reserved for a specific use.  People can use it however they want to.

Pep pushed both Eto'o and Ibra out quickly because he has a very specific idea of the skills he wants in the central attacking position... and it's not what a typical CF is.  There's a reason he put Messi there.  At Bayern he wanted Goetze to take over the central attacking role, but that transition didn't happen smoothly.  Heck, i doubt Lewandowski would have made it to Bayern if the Bayern board hadn't committed to the purchase beforehand.

Even VDB and Pep's successors at Barca kepts the idea together.... using Cesc as a false 9 despite having Negredo, Llorente and Soldado.

Villa is the only one who adapted well because he brought the skillset and activity needed to the position.  Age caught up with him though.

You guys can deny it all you want...  but there is a definite unique angle to how Pep (and managers who try to emulate him) sets up his system.  You can call it "tiki taka", "garbagitis" or whatever you want.  It doesn't make it less true.

Heck, Low is doing it too now because he does whatever Bayern is doing

sportsczy wrote:I can decide to call anything I choose to "tiki taka"...  for example, i can choose to name the process that my wife uses to do laundry "tiki taka".  It's just a name.  It's not reserved for a specific use.  People can use it however they want to.

Exactly what I'm saying the entire time. There is no definition what "tiki-taka" means. People use it how they want.

ok well then we agree.  I'm not hung up on what "tiki taka" has been used for in the past.  It's now also being used as a term for Pep's style of play.  It's neither good nor bad... it just is.

Not sure why Pep is so upset about it.  He should embrace it.  Most managers don't have a specific word used for their style.

When a lot of people use a word for a specific definition... they coined a new meaning for that word.

Still don't see how Pep's a genius, honestly. All I see him do is try and play the same style over & over again regardless of the team he has at his disposal & the also regardless of the opponent's team. Too predictable, IMO.

Lord Awesome wrote:Still don't see how Pep's a genius, honestly. All I see him do is try and play the same style over & over again regardless of the team he has at his disposal & the also regardless of the opponent's team. Too predictable, IMO.

Its called a philosophy...every great coach has one.

Btw, i think Pep's defensive philosophy is the most innovative part of him... but that's another discussion.