Re: Morata is finished

by Adit Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:29 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:Adit acting like he won the wwe belt lol, i never disagreed to the points you made up there. Looks like u dont remember what we were discussing abt, sit yo ass down

Its Surag that was always convinced Morata could say no and not return.

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Adit wrote:
S wrote:Juventus have rejected a €60m offer from Liverpool for Alvaro Morata, according to Gazzetta's @carlolaudisa.

Bs

Juventus can't sell him as long as there is buy back option for real Madrid.
THat's not true Adit. We have SOLD Morata to Juventus, they are free to do anything they want, providing that we do not activate our buy back clause. He is not on loan.

So for example, they can give him a new contract, as they did, whereas if he was on loan, they couldnt have.

Buy Back Clause is just a provision that allows us in the period defined by the selling contract to come in and to put in a bid at a price defined in advance to sign the player back without any negotiation whatsoever, regardless of what Juventus was planning. It's an obligation to sell to us exclusively at a specific price.

So if they are about to sell him for 60 mil, we can step in, put 35 mil on the table and cockblock them. They wont have any choice but to disregard any other offer and to accept the offer.

No i have not read his contract details, but this is what common sense tells me.

Adit wrote:

The contract of buy back runs until 2018.

Juventus can't sell him with out permission from real before 2018 because it contradicts the first contact.

Simple as that. They can sell only if Madrid permits them ( by asking for money) or simply has to wait until the buy back period is over.

Adit wrote:The thing is he himself contradicts. He said buy back is obligation to sell at a certain price. How can the obligation to sell to us in 2018 can be kept if they sell him in 2015?

Read with that Bayern getting compensation for selling in buy back period. It all makes sense. The parent club has a say in buy back period.

Mr Nick09 wrote:
I am not contradicting myself, it's you that do not understand. There is no obligation to sell to us by a certain date.

We negotiated a buy back clause in Morata's contract for summer 2016, and summer 2017, respectively 2 and 3 years after his sell to take advantage of his development. Iirc the buy back amount for 2016 is at 30 millions, and then 35 millions for 2017. If we miss those windows juve can sell back to us at 90 millions if they want.

If we activate his clause during summer 2016 or 2017, Juve have the obligation to sell to us in accordance with the terms of sale and the amount quoted. For all we care Morata is a juventus player and they can keep him. We only have that clause if he is developping faster than expected and we feel we can use him.

This is the reason why 1) there is so much talk in the italian press about how Morata has the final word as he might not agree to be bought back, can refuse the move, Juve know they have no say; 2) There have been talks of Juve paying us a fee to get rid of the clause as we can block any sale they attempt in the next two years. they have a limited earning potential on any sale in that timeframe.

if pool have 60 mil to spend on him, we step him, buy him back at 30 mil, make a 30 mil profit. Juve are left holding their dicks. Between what they paid for him and what they got back, 30 mil -18 mil = 12 mil they made on him - wages. As for us, 18 mil + 60 mil - 30mil = 48 mil and no wages. Flo laughing in his office

Adit wrote:
Thing in bold. Isn't that I have been saying from the start?

That juventus can't sell him with out Real's permission during the buy back period.

If you are saying we can only block by bidding then you are wrong. Regardless of the bid they will have to compensate us during those period, because that is why there is certain dates in contracts.

Mr Nick09 wrote:
they did not need our permission to offer him a better contract, they dont need our permission to sell him.

I am in fact saying that we can only block any sale by bidding ourselves and using that clause. They dont have to compensate us at all, in the event of a sale, they would negotiate something with us, solely because of the fact we can step in (unless it's written in the terms of sale as for Martial's that we stand to make a profit in case of a sale)

All that has been reported is that we have a buy back clause for two summers, 2016 and 2017. We can speculate as for the rest but we dont know. What i explained above is simply how buy backs work

Adit wrote:

Your theory that there is no date constraints for selling has two problems.

1.We sold Morata in 2014 July.
2.We have buy back in 2016 and 2017

Now if Real Had no say in time period of transfer of Morata Juventus could easily sell him in 2015 summer when Real has no buy back option. Err That doesnt make sense does it?

Real has agreed a contract until 2017 means that upto that year Juventus can only sell if they can compensate Real Madrid.

Now Your second theory that Juventus will compensate Real just to stop their bidding.

Why should they do that when they can convince player to reject Madrid's offer?. See, if City offer Juventus 60 million and morata wants to go why should they pay Madrid any compensation when the player himself will reject.

Only way the compensation works is when the parent club has some kind of leverage on the transfer and in this case the transfer contract with the parent club for certain duration.

Last post lol

Yeah what ever. Still thinks your theory that Juventus can sell him when ever they wants holds water? Laughing

they should have done it in 2015 when there was no buy back clause then rofl

by Hapless_Hans Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:33 am

So Adit, then please explain to us in detail how Morata#s buy back clause works in detail.

When not even Morata seems to know Laughing

by Adit Sat Mar 26, 2016 1:42 am

For what? then to answer your how do you know question? No thanx. I have explained how it works in my posts. That it is an ownership clause and Juventus will have to strike a deal with Madrid regardless of Madrid is bidding or not until 2017 because the buy back runs until then.

by The Demon of Carthage Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:03 am

http://www.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2016/02/29/56d430abca474154148b45bf.html

From the last paragraph:

What's more, Juventus would have to pay Real Madrid 80m - the value of the release clause set when the Spain international headed to Turin - if they decided to sell Morata to any other club before 16th July 2017.

This means they could still sell him.

by Adit Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:15 am

so 80 million is the fee and it doesnt depend on Real is bidding or not. We will get 80 million if Juventus if Juve decide to sell the player under the period of buy back (that is until 2017).And since no sane club will pay 80 million for Morata Juventus will have to negotiate with Real and lower the fee if they wants to sell him before 2017.

by rincon Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:25 am

All this whole thing does is hurt his career. He is not ready to lead the line with Juve or Madrid. What he needs is some peace and continuity to grow as a player. He isn't gonna get that at Madrid with their current system. At Juve he might, we play with 2 strikers so its not all on him.

We'll likely see him go back to Madrid, ride the bench for Benzema/whoever else comes, and then get sold the next window. The only way I can see it working for him is if the transfer ban gets enforced and Madrid have to keep him and give him a bigger role.

by Doc Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:03 am

Winning a WWE belt and winning an argument on GL have just about the same merit imo.

Again, the only party that this really has a negative effect on is Morata. Really baffles the mind that a club like Juventus who isn't broke as Old Man Bill proclaims can put themselves and subsequently the player in such a precarious position.

by futbol_bill Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:26 am

He just showed last night how good he is and also showed that he can easily play with a CF. I don't think he will have any problems getting minutes at either Juve or Madrid.

You guys seem to think that upcoming talents have a huge say in their future. That is only true once you are an established star. Players are simply assets, that clubs develop hoping to improve the value of the assets, whether it be to help the club on the field or financially. Emotions really don't enter into the equation in this business.

And Doc, if Juve had sufficient financing, why are they constantly battling the sale of Pogba? If they had the money, Pogba would be the asset they build their team around and they would sign him to a long term deal!

by Mr Nick09 Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:42 am

Frankly i still dont know what u r gloating about

We have sold Morata to juve, fact
We have right to buy till 2017 for set price and juve have obligation to sell, its pretty much a call option, fact
Juve can do anything they want including selling morata to another club without our permission lol, fact
If we dont activate the clause morata stays at juve, fact
Morata does not control shit, fact

All of which i previously said. The only new info is that they can sell but there is a penalty to pay which doesnt contradict myself

I dont even think u deserve that belt, great copy and paste skills though

by Adit Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:59 am

Yeah like you never claimed this... Oh well..

"I am in fact saying that we can only block any sale by bidding ourselves and using that clause. They dont have to compensate us at all, in the event of a sale, they would negotiate something with us, solely because of the fact we can step in (unless it's written in the terms of sale as for Martial's that we stand to make a profit in case of a sale)"

While I said Juventus will have to compensate us, which is there in the contract. Your theories of we can only block by bidding ourself has been proven to be a big joke Nick... Just move on.

by Adit Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:04 am

This 80 million isn't even compensation to begin with... It's just the release clause of Morata Laughing

just like Messi can be freed for 250 mill.

So basically juve still have to reach an agreement if they are to sell him other wise they will have to pay the compensation equal to release clause.

by rincon Sat Mar 26, 2016 10:00 am

futbol_bill wrote:And Doc, if Juve had sufficient financing, why are they constantly battling the sale of Pogba? If they had the money, Pogba would be the asset they build their team around and they would sign him to a long term deal!

We are battling the sale of Pogba since most every team wants him. But he has been here for 4 seasons and has a contract running for 3 more. Plus he has grown in the team and he got the 10. How is that not building around him and having a long term deal?

by Mr Nick09 Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:41 pm

@Adit, the point about the penalty or clause juve have to pay to us, if they want to keep Morata when we exercise our buy back clause or if when we exercise our clause and morata isnt at juve (ie has been sold) is the only point that i missed.

The overall explanation that i gave about the workings of the buy back clause is by more ore thorough and complete than anything you posted in this thread.

And if you want to point out points that i missed i can do the same lol

Adit wrote:The contract of buy back runs until 2018.

Not it doesnt lol, it ends july 15 2017

Adit wrote:Juventus can't sell him with out permission from real before 2018 because it contradicts the first contact.

Yes they can,they would just have a penalty of 80 millions to pay to us if we exercise our right to buy and there is no player to buy back

Adit wrote:Simple as that. They can sell only if Madrid permits them ( by asking for money) or simply has to wait until the buy back period is over.

No they dont need our permission, we just have a 80 mil clause over their head that prohibits anything, unless they can sell him to china for 200 mil lol

Morata is finished - Page 12 They-quit-trying

Morata is finished - Page 12 They-quit-trying

by Donuts Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:16 pm

If Morata speaks out saying he doesn't want to return to madrid even if they have all the control it just makes them look worse and all over a couple of millions they could potentially make off him...
no team wants an unhappy player just doesn't help the already shit moral you guys have in the team

unless you guys are dumb enough to offload benzema for him then by all means go ahead lol

by Adit Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:50 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:@Adit, the point about the penalty or clause juve have to pay to us, if they want to keep Morata when we exercise our buy back clause or if when we exercise our clause and morata isnt at juve (ie has been sold) is the only point that i missed.

The overall explanation that i gave about the workings of the buy back clause is by more ore thorough and complete than anything you posted in this thread.

And if you want to point out points that i missed i can do the same lol

Adit wrote:The contract of buy back runs until 2018.
Not it doesnt lol, it ends july 15 2017

Adit wrote:Juventus can't sell him with out permission from real before 2018 because it contradicts the first contact.
Yes they can,they would just have a penalty of 80 millions to pay to us if we exercise our right to buy and there is no player to buy back

Adit wrote:Simple as that. They can sell only if Madrid permits them ( by asking for money) or simply has to wait until the buy back period is over.
No they dont need our permission, we just have a 80 mil clause over their head that prohibits anything, unless they can sell him to china for 200 mil lol

Except that how about this thing you wrote ?

Nick09 wrote:"I am in fact saying that we can only block any sale by bidding ourselves and using that clause. They dont have to compensate us at all, in the event of a sale, they would negotiate something with us, solely because of the fact we can step in (unless it's written in the terms of sale as for Martial's that we stand to make a profit in case of a sale)"

Yeah right? so much right about the contract. Why dont you just accept that you got it wrong ? lol

You now have to quote the dates 2017 instead (2018) because you cant even find any wrong in my version Laughing

I said from the start that Juventus will have to compensate us if they were to sell him under the buy back period which is exactly what i meant by permission from Real Madrid.

your version?

Juve dont have to pay compensation at all because Real sold him right????

Madrid can only prevent sale by bidding right??

Juve will pay us only so that Real will not bid right?

Juve can sell him with out any problem in 2015 when there is no buy back right??

Laughing

then you calim your version is right? seriously?

The 80 million isnt even compensation though Nick, it is the release clause of Morata. So there is no previously agreed compensation, now what? anything else?

by Mr Nick09 Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:14 pm

the 80 millions serve both as a penalty and a price agreed that juve can pay to RM to buy the rights of Morata before july 2017. it's stated twice in the contract if you read it on footballleaks.

i am a grown up, i have owned up to the point i was wrong about. try to do the same yeah? i dont have much time for this internet warrior bs lol

by Doc Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:42 pm

futbol_bill wrote:And Doc, if Juve had sufficient financing, why are they constantly battling the sale of Pogba? If they had the money, Pogba would be the asset they build their team around and they would sign him to a long term deal!

Well, he is on a long term deal and Juventus have built a team to compliment his skill set. As for the topic of being broke, I also have doubts about that. They had no problems (none that I am aware of) purchasing Dyabla, Zaza, Perreira and Sandro outright but Morata have all these weird stipulations.

For a club that thinks highly of themselves (which, in all fairness, they should), these contractual issues for an ex Madrid player who really did not have any significant role at the club is quite odd.

by The Demon of Carthage Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:09 pm

Morata isn't elite, and if he goes back to Madrid, he'll rot on the bench like he did before we sold him. There's no need to activate the buy-back clause and taint our image over a player who's simply not worth it.

And if the reason for buying him back (for 30m) is to sell him straight away for 50m, then ask yourselves this: who's dumb enough to pay 50m for Morata? Even if we were to assume this theory could be true and that there's in fact someone interested in him, they wouldn't go up to 50m. The profit that we would get from the sell shouldn't be significant at all, and not worth all this trouble.

And if the reason for buying him back is to replace Benzema with him, then my response would be: are you freaking kidding me?

by S Sun May 22, 2016 8:33 am

This guy is a jewel.

If Madrid activate the clause,i hope you guys use him and give him a big role.

It'd hurt to see him play for another club.

by Luca Sun May 22, 2016 8:42 am

Magical player

by rincon Sun May 22, 2016 8:45 am

As clutch as they come

by farfan Sun May 22, 2016 8:56 am

Usually players crush it in the league against weaker opposition in tedious league games and choke at the big stage , Morata is the opposite . hmm

by sportsczy Sun May 22, 2016 9:11 am

farfan wrote:Usually players crush it in the league against weaker opposition in tedious league games and choke at the big stage , Morata is the opposite .

He's effective in situation where he can use his speed... so as a sub, he's great and against teams where Juve rely on counter attacks (Madrid, Bayern, etc.), he's effective too. Has a horrible time when Juve dictate play and he needs to work in confined areas.

That's the reason.

by futbol_bill Sun May 22, 2016 10:47 am

I've watched him a lot with Juve, both in Serie A, CL, with Spanish seleccion and of course with Madrid, Castilla, and with youth spanish seleccion.

His best role is as a sub. Most of his big games, with seleccion, both senior and youth and with Juve, have been as a sub. He comes on with energy, and he is is creative and has speed. He makes excellent runs and passes. He is not necessarily the best finisher, although he always seems to come thru in big games, esp. with seleccion. Watch out for him in euros, since this is a stage opportunity for him. I feel he is the perfect backup to Benz, which is exactly what I believe the club will end up doing.

by breva Sun May 22, 2016 11:31 am

Juventus is owned by the Agnelli family. The Agnelli's own Exor, one of the largest companies in the world. Old money, manufacturing company, not a newbie oil company. If Juventus wants to keep him, they will.

Exor is an Italian investment company, controlled by the Agnelli family. With a capitalization of US$12 billion, its principal investments include Fiat Chrysler Automobiles, CNH Industrial and Ferrari. Wikipedia
Founder: Giovanni Agnelli
Founded: 1927
Stock price: EXO (BIT) €31.67 +0.12 (+0.38%)
May 20, 5:37 PM GMT+2 - Disclaimer
Headquarters: Turin, Italy
Revenue: 136.4 billion EUR (2015)
Net income: 744.5 million EUR (2015)
Total assets: 156.9 billion EUR (2015)

by farfan Sun May 22, 2016 11:34 am

eh , they can't if Madrid wants him back .

There is a buy back option .

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