Re: Golden Ball and other WC Awards

by Footyfan Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:04 pm

Whoscored has become worse than goal in quality and is just BS.com now

by Onyx Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:09 pm

Lionel Messi created more chances (23) and completed more take-ons (46) than any other player at the 2014 World Cup. (Squawka)

by futbol Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:12 pm

How does this thread have 13 pages? It's the most irrelevant thing of the entire World Cup. Laughing

http://vine.co/v/MxjXThXb2Ug

Golden Ball and other WC Awards - Page 10 10537178_10152488327821840_7007216694339851110_n

by Harmonica Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:24 pm

Footyfan wrote:Whoscored has become worse than goal in quality and is just BS.com now

The rating method hasn't chanced since 2010. That's why it's easily the most honest and relative rating method.

It doesn't have readers to please, players to sponsor, and it uses every second of every player in its valuation.

If you actually value in how much players are marked, the difference becomes far greater.

by izzy Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:41 pm

Anyway, Messi clearly didn't deserve this award.

by Curtinho Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:37 pm

Yeah, Messi shouldn't have received the Golden Ball, but it is what it is.

by VivaStPauli Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:43 pm

What a joke.

by Bankz Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:11 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
LeSwagg James wrote:Messi carried his team to the Final, I don't have a problem with him winning it...

I would of given it to James though, he was the stand out player of this tournament

Neuer deserves it far more than James, who did jack vs the worst Brazil ever. How come people are critisizing Messi for disappearing after quarters but are completely ignoring the fact that James did basically the same thing? There is no guarantee he would have shined in the later stages of the game against better teams like Germany or Argentina.

^ This. James did zilch vs the worse Brazil ever and had a sneideresque fluke tournament and everyone's suddenly jumping on the he's better than messi wagon. did James have the same marking like neymar,messi and robben? did James have the same pressure like neymar, messi and robben? so why wouldn't he score 6 in which 2 were penalties.

by Bankz Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:11 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
LeSwagg James wrote:Messi carried his team to the Final, I don't have a problem with him winning it...

I would of given it to James though, he was the stand out player of this tournament

Neuer deserves it far more than James, who did jack vs the worst Brazil ever. How come people are critisizing Messi for disappearing after quarters but are completely ignoring the fact that James did basically the same thing? There is no guarantee he would have shined in the later stages of the game against better teams like Germany or Argentina.

^ This. James did zilch vs the worse Brazil ever and had a sneideresque fluke tournament and everyone's suddenly jumping on the he's better than messi wagon. did James have the same marking like neymar,messi and robben? did James have the same pressure like neymar, messi and robben? so why wouldn't he score 6 in which 2 were penalties.

by McAgger Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:25 pm

Dude you say that Hames did zilch against Brazil and yet he created and scored their only goal and looked very lively and threatening in the second half.

What about how Messi ghosted against Switzerland ALL game and then provided an assist but was apparently the hero of that match. The rest of the knockouts Messi was nonexistent.

Hames was the best player in the group stages in the tourney. Hames was once against the stand out player of the round of 16 by demolishing Uruguay.

WTF does pressure have to do with this award? Hames was the outstanding player of this tournament, why does anything else have to matter?

And he only scored 1 from the penalty spot you dweeb.

by Casciavit Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Only four times has a player from the winning team actually won the golden ball. Last time a player from the winning team won it was back in 1994 (Romario).

It's a consolation prize.

by VivaStPauli Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:23 pm

I don't even think it should've necessarily gone to a German.

Mascherano, James, maybe Robben would all have been fine to me.

Though I would've given it to Neuer, Hummels, or Kroos. Maybe even Müller. Well, that's because I'm biased.

If I were to genuinely point out the player of this tournament?
Mascherano. F*cker was brilliant.

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:39 pm

Even Mourinho is defending Messi Laughing

"Messi sacrifized himeslf for the team, he wanted to win more than he wanted to be the best player of the tournament and played in zones that are not his favorite. You have to respect that. Not every player in this World Cup can say the same.

"It's not the same thing to play for a national team than it is for a club, if he had wanted to show how good he is he would have played behind Higuain waiting for a chance to change the game.

"I would like to know why Lavezzi was benched for the second half. In the first half Argentina played with four lines of four, with Enzo Perez closing in on Lahm and Lavezzi on the other side and going forward. Argentina was comfortable and Messi could just walk while the rest of the team was in a defensive phase, so that when they recovered the ball he could have the legs fresh to make a difference.

"The goal was clearly scored against a very tired team, they could not phase Schurlle nor the change of tempo on the wings, and after that they couldn't close in on the spaces. Clearly Garay, who in my opinion has been fantastic all competition, didn't have the energy to close in that space. And after that Gotze's finishing was fantastic."

http://www.marca.com/2014/07/14/futbol/mundial/argentina/1405362278.html

by VivaStPauli Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:46 pm

After some thought, Schweinsteiger should've won the thing.
Should also be our captain.
And Bayern's captain.

by Zealous Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:51 pm

Mou clearly trolling tbh

by Hapless_Hans Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:52 pm

VivaStPauli wrote:After some thought, Schweinsteiger should've won the thing.
Should also be our captain.
And Bayern's captain.

I agree with all of that.
Although I have to say Lahm's consistency and top performances have made me long since forgive and forget his being the teachers pet and the stunt he pulled on Ballack, which kind of made me dislike him for a while.
Still, he's more a captain for the media and inner club relations, than for the pitch.
I think for the teammates Schweini is as much captain as Lahm anyway, and the two seem to have grown together a lot since the final loss 2012.

by DuringTheWar Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:01 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Even Mourinho is defending Messi

"Messi sacrifized himeslf for the team, he wanted to win more than he wanted to be the best player of the tournament and played in zones that are not his favorite. You have to respect that. Not every player in this World Cup can say the same.

"It's not the same thing to play for a national team than it is for a club, if he had wanted to show how good he is he would have played behind Higuain waiting for a chance to change the game.

"I would like to know why Lavezzi was benched for the second half. In the first half Argentina played with four lines of four, with Enzo Perez closing in on Lahm and Lavezzi on the other side and going forward. Argentina was comfortable and Messi could just walk while the rest of the team was in a defensive phase, so that when they recovered the ball he could have the legs fresh to make a difference.

"The goal was clearly scored against a very tired team, they could not phase Schurlle nor the change of tempo on the wings, and after that they couldn't close in on the spaces. Clearly Garay, who in my opinion has been fantastic all competition, didn't have the energy to close in that space. And after that Gotze's finishing was fantastic."

http://www.marca.com/2014/07/14/futbol/mundial/argentina/1405362278.html

What are his favourite zones? The common complaint is that he actually WANTS to always run back to get the ball and not the other way enough without it.

Btw BC you seem to be defending messi now but don't think your comments before about messi never playing well at any point have been forgotten Laughing

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:07 pm

When it comes to Argentina I am bipolar Laughing

I just think the criticism is unfair, I don't think in balance Messi has had a worst tournament than Robben or James because he has been able to make key contributions at key moments. But that doesn't mean he has played well. In 2010 he played exceedingly well and didn't score once though, so I know which Messi I would rather have.

Like I said many times tho, Neuer deserves the Golden Ball over anyone else.

by Bankz Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:20 am

Don't call me James wrote:Dude you say that Hames did zilch against Brazil and yet he created and scored their only goal and looked very lively and threatening in the second half.

What about how Messi ghosted against Switzerland ALL game and then provided an assist but was apparently the hero of that match. The rest of the knockouts Messi was nonexistent.

Hames was the best player in the group stages in the tourney. Hames was once against the stand out player of the round of 16 by demolishing Uruguay.

WTF does pressure have to do with this award? Hames was the outstanding player of this tournament, why does anything else have to matter?

And he only scored 1 from the penalty spot you dweeb.

Lol, what's more funny is that u seem to believe yourself.

by rwo power Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:48 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:don't blame harmonica, it's whoscored lol.
gave Neuer a 6.74 'meh' rating for his game against Algeria lol, what utter tools.

Whoscored don't take into account when a GK prevents goal chances by doing sweeper stuff. They only take into account save percentages and the like and not preventing the creating of goal chances. They severely need to review their formulas for goal-keeping as they are severely lacking.

by Arquitecto Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:57 am

rwo power wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:don't blame harmonica, it's whoscored lol.
gave Neuer a 6.74 'meh' rating for his game against Algeria lol, what utter tools.
Whoscored don't take into account when a GK prevents goal chances by doing sweeper stuff. They only take into account save percentages and the like and not preventing the creating of goal chances. They severely need to review their formulas for goal-keeping as they are severely lacking.

Even if they do review their formula they cannot put such contribution onto paper given the insane amount of outliers, deviations and variable that a goalkeeper or one in defence produces as statistically measuring those numbers can only be used as a reference point and that is where is should end.

Ice Hockey is similar to football though they put more heavy emphasis in analytics, producing models to crunch the numbers as Fenwick is one apt example. Maybe football sabermetrics should take notes on how the NHL does it, forming better and more in-depth results than the commoner statistics that whoscored, transfermarkt etc put up.

by Eivindo Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:01 am

Who cares about these awards nowadays, hasnt people understood that its just a popularity award/politics

by BarcaLearning Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:08 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:
VivaStPauli wrote:After some thought, Schweinsteiger should've won the thing.
Should also be our captain.
And Bayern's captain.

I agree with all of that.
Although I have to say Lahm's consistency and top performances have made me long since forgive and forget his being the teachers pet and the stunt he pulled on Ballack, which kind of made me dislike him for a while.
Still, he's more a captain for the media and inner club relations, than for the pitch.
I think for the teammates Schweini is as much captain as Lahm anyway, and the two seem to have grown together a lot since the final loss 2012.

What stunt was that?

And Lahm appears always so cool, collected and determined. Whereas Schweini I've seen him lose his cool and even cry... anyway, both worthy leaders.

by Zizou Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:04 am

Ballack was captain of the german team - yet obv. Löw wanted to see Lahm in that role but could not simply kick out Ballack. So lahm became Reserve captain as ballack was not 100% fit to lpay... yet this whole thing left a really bad taste on the ending of ballacks Career...
must have been around 2011 - but I might be mistaken there with the year...
I felt like ballack could not leave the NT on the high note he would have deserved for his over all life time archievment

by Hapless_Hans Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:47 pm

Ballack was captain of the NT, but got injured shortly before the 2010 WC (KP Boateng in the FA cup final) and had to miss the WC.

Lahm didn't just become 'interim' captain, but just assumed the captaincy as if Ballack didn't matter anymore, which he indeed didn't as he never played a NT game again.
When Lahm was asked during the WC whether he'd like to remain captain, he said "of course" - while Ballack got injured just a few weeks earlier. That was some disgusting behaviour imo.

by Harmonica Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:39 pm

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