Kick wrote:Just be patient, people will post, no need to keep asking questions.

sorry for that

i'm too excited

sorry again

  

Winter is Coming wrote:

guest_07 wrote:

Winter is Coming wrote:

1. Cruyff
2. Dinho
3. Pep
4. Messi
5. Xavi (May jump up the list once he retires and becomes our coaches and wins a couple CL titles, also coaching Spain to another World Cup)

dinho in front of pep & messi?

Dinho bought us a lot of global recognition and after many years bough smile/joy to the Camp Nou. Also won many titles including a CL. If it wasn't for him, who knows there may have never been Pep or Messi.

its all hypothetical but regardless Messi and Pep were in Barca before Ronaldinho even joined.
Messi no matter what was going to be a star, though that's not to take away from Ronaldinho as he got so many fans from across the world just with his talent, but his short spell and less then interesting departure kinda doesn't hold up to Messi..
if you look up Fc Barcelona records you see Messi in almost more then half of them, and he'd be in more if some competitions were still played till this day.
Pep also holds his own records, as a player and coach, three champions leagues leading one of arguably the strongest teams in history

Donuts wrote:

Winter is Coming wrote:

guest_07 wrote:

dinho in front of pep & messi?

Dinho bought us a lot of global recognition and after many years bough smile/joy to the Camp Nou. Also won many titles including a CL. If it wasn't for him, who knows there may have never been Pep or Messi.

its all hypothetical but regardless Messi and Pep were in Barca before Ronaldinho even joined.
Messi no matter what was going to be a star, though that's not to take away from Ronaldinho as he got so many fans from across the world just with his talent, but his short spell and less then interesting departure kinda doesn't hold up to Messi..
if you look up Fc Barcelona records you see Messi in almost more then half of them, and he'd be in more if some competitions were still played till this day.
Pep also holds his own records, as a player and coach, three champions leagues :wub:leading one of arguably the strongest teams in history

i kinda agree with your argument

its almost same case with boca, people that are not boca fan question why riquelme was voted best player above maradona, yet they don't know the big difference of contribution between them

For Milan I am going with a top 5:

1- Berlusconi and Galliani:

Despite all the hate these guys get now, with the first's money and influence and with the second's transfer intelligence, Milan had their most successful period in history.

Also, since the period coincided with the rise of TV viewership, Milan are now set as a powerhouse traditionally without actually being one at the moment.

2- The Maldini family:

The Maldini's can actually get first place if any of Paolo's sons become club legends. As it stand now, Cesare Maldini won 4 Serie As and one CL.

Paolo in the other hand won 7 Serie As and 5 CL among other trophies. Here is hoping his son follow in their footsteps.

3- Nils Liedholm:

As one of the famous Swedish trio Gre-No-Li, Nils was the mastermind behind Milan's first Serie Title in 50 years, and also their first period of dominance. Not stopping with his sport career, Nils went on as a coach for Milan in a semi-successful stint with a CL final to his name both as a player (losing against Di Stefano's Madrid) and as a Coach (losing to the famous 80's Liverpool on penalties).

4- Arrigo Sacchi:

Sacchi did not only evolve Milan, but also football as a whole. His style resonated with Milan throughout their Berlu era, and it is the reason Milan were more successful commercially than other teams in that era. If his era was just five years ahead, Milan might have become a powerhouse to rival United.

5- Carlo Ancelotti:

Carlo first made his print as a player in the Sacchi era, and then came back as a manager.

IMO, Carlo could have been much more successful with the team he had. Milan from 2003-2007 had the strongest spine in the world, and it were Carlo's mistakes that not cost us 2004's match against Deportivo, 2005 Final againt Liverpool, and 2006 Semi against Barca.

While it can be said that Ancelotti lost the plot too many times to be in this list, he still assembled a Milan team that managed to dominate Europe for five years.

Arguably, Carlo's greatest achievement is turning Pirlo into a DLP, which payed dividends for Milan, Italy, and now to Juventus.

In No Order

1) Herbert Chapman. Kick started the Arsenal domination in the 1920s and kick started a legacy that made us into England's best around the time when Football was developing as a whole

2) Arsene Wenger. Best thing to happen to ever happen to Arsenal. What he has done is nothing short of exceptional. There are not enough words to describe his influence and the work he has done over the last 17 years to make Arsenal successful in every way possible.

3) Bergkamp.

4) Henry

5) David Dein.

Barcelona - Messi, 0 trophies in 5 season before Messi, 21 in 9 with Messi

Some others:

Manchester United - Ferguson
Ajax - Cruyff
Bayern München - Beckenbauer
Chelsea - Abramovich
Manchester City - Sheikh Mansour
Real Madrid - RFEF

Lord Spencer wrote:For Milan I am going with a top 5:

1- Berlusconi and Galliani:

Despite all the hate these guys get now, with the first's money and influence and with the second's transfer intelligence, Milan had their most successful period in history.

Also, since the period coincided with the rise of TV viewership, Milan are now set as a powerhouse traditionally without actually being one at the moment.

2- The Maldini family:

The Maldini's can actually get first place if any of Paolo's sons become club legends. As it stand now, Cesare Maldini won 4 Serie As and one CL.

Paolo in the other hand won 7 Serie As and 5 CL among other trophies. Here is hoping his son follow in their footsteps.

3- Nils Liedholm:

As one of the famous Swedish trio Gre-No-Li, Nils was the mastermind behind Milan's first Serie Title in 50 years, and also their first period of dominance. Not stopping with his sport career, Nils went on as a coach for Milan in a semi-successful stint with a CL final to his name both as a player (losing against Di Stefano's Madrid) and as a Coach (losing to the famous 80's Liverpool on penalties).

4- Arrigo Sacchi:

Sacchi did not only evolve Milan, but also football as a whole. His style resonated with Milan throughout their Berlu era, and it is the reason Milan were more successful commercially than other teams in that era. If his era was just five years ahead, Milan might have become a powerhouse to rival United.

5- Carlo Ancelotti:

Carlo first made his print as a player in the Sacchi era, and then came back as a manager.

IMO, Carlo could have been much more successful with the team he had. Milan from 2003-2007 had the strongest spine in the world, and it were Carlo's mistakes that not cost us 2004's match against Deportivo, 2005 Final againt Liverpool, and 2006 Semi against Barca.

While it can be said that Ancelotti lost the plot too many times to be in this list, he still assembled a Milan team that managed to dominate Europe for five years.

Arguably, Carlo's greatest achievement is turning Pirlo into a DLP, which payed dividends for Milan, Italy, and now to Juventus.

Great list. I would add all the three on Gre-No-Li for asserting our first period of dominance, not just Liedholm. And Nereo Rocco and Gianni Rivera, has to, has to, has to be there. The cantenaccio mastermind and perhaps the greatest Italian player of all time gave us 2 CLs and made us true European powerhouses. Without them Milan would not be Milan.

Santiago Bernabeu. If it weren't for him, I highly doubt Real Madrid would have been how they are today.

What Success ?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:What Success ?

Success is quite relative. I honestly, genuinely believe if the club continued the legacy of what Sir Bobby Robson left, it would have been completely different. Newcastle would probably not win a damn thing but the club would have certainly not be in a state it currently is.

Me own humble, not so knowledgeable opinion on that one.

Talking about history? Let's take a look at Bayern München first ^^

For Bayern München you have Kurt Landauer for the early years, and then from the late 1970es, it was Uli Hoeneß who was one of the first managers who actually began to set the foundations of the economic success when he had to quit playing due to injuries and took over as manager. In the sporting department, Udo Lattek was probably the founder of the first absolute top team of Bayern.

Bruce Arena. Two MLS League Cups these past 3 years.

Beckham as well. Same as Bruce thus far.

1- The Moratti Family
2- Helenio Herrera
3- Mourinho
4- Ibra/Mancini/Zanetti

For barcelona
1.Phylosophy (Training way of youth system)
2.Messi and Pep

I wasn't alive for the success Bayern had in the 70s, I'm not qualified to talk about who built the team up then. Now you can have your pick as to who is most influencial.

You can take your pick from Hoeness, Beckenbauer, Sammer, van Gaal, Heynckes, Rummenigge, Pep, etc. Then you have instrumental players such as Lahm, Schweinsteiger plus the success in the transfer market a long with the youth academy with German players such as Kroos, Mueller, Goetze, Boateng, etc. Then you have the philosophy of attracting the best German talent money and the youth team can provide. Plus you then get into commercial partners such as Audi, Adidas, etc.

To sum up, I can't put a finger on who drives Bayern.

Donuts wrote:

Winter is Coming wrote:

guest_07 wrote:

dinho in front of pep & messi?

Dinho bought us a lot of global recognition and after many years bough smile/joy to the Camp Nou. Also won many titles including a CL. If it wasn't for him, who knows there may have never been Pep or Messi.

its all hypothetical but regardless Messi and Pep were in Barca before Ronaldinho even joined.
Messi no matter what was going to be a star, though that's not to take away from Ronaldinho as he got so many fans from across the world just with his talent, but his short spell and less then interesting departure kinda doesn't hold up to Messi..
if you look up Fc Barcelona records you see Messi in almost more then half of them, and he'd be in more if some competitions were still played till this day.
Pep also holds his own records, as a player and coach, three champions leagues :wub:leading one of arguably the strongest teams in history

Yes, but I believe it was Dinho that lead to this chain of events. If he wasn't here sure Pep/Messi were still in Barcelona, but Messi himself said it many times he's thankful to Dinho for his development and I believe he also got a lot of minutes thanks to him as well. If it wasn't for him we wouldn't have won the CL in 2006 and Rijkaard would've gotten fired earlier, before Pep got his coaching license, which would've lead to signing another coach and losing some of the key players right now before Pep entrance, or perhaps even then we may have not even seen him get his coaching gig here and etc. Just from that many things could've happened.

RealGunner wrote:In No Order

1) Herbert Chapman. Kick started the Arsenal domination in the 1920s and kick started a legacy that made us into England's best around the time when Football was developing as a whole

2) Arsene Wenger. Best thing to happen to ever happen to Arsenal. What he has done is nothing short of exceptional. There are not enough words to describe his influence and the work he has done over the last 17 years to make Arsenal successful in every way possible.

3) Bergkamp.

4) Henry

5) David Dein.

I did?   

Kick wrote:

2. Mourinho
3. Zola
4. JT, Lampard, Drogba

Honorable mention to Gronkjaer?

For his '£1 billion pound goal', even if he isn't the same quality as the others

Busby Babe wrote:

Kick wrote:

2. Mourinho
3. Zola
4. JT, Lampard, Drogba

Honorable mention to Gronkjaer?

For his '£1 billion pound goal', even if he isn't the same quality as the others

I guess. He wasn't as influential long term though.

Doc wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:What Success ?

Success is quite relative. I honestly, genuinely believe if the club continued the legacy of what Sir Bobby Robson left, it would have been completely different. Newcastle would probably not win a damn thing but the club would have certainly not be in a state it currently is.

Me own humble, not so knowledgeable opinion on that one.

Well naturally, we have been paying for the ridiculous decision to sack him 5 games into the season and replace him with Graeme f*cking Souness ever since

As influential Sir Bobby was though he's still 2nd to Keegan in recent memory.

Who when he took over in 1992 where we on pace to being relegated to the old 3rd division.... four years later we are coming within a whisker of winning the PL not once but twice and beat Barcelona in the CL.

Replacing him with Dalglish was another moronic decision, luckily it only took us 3 years to rectify that by getting Sir Bobby in to turn us into title challengers and CL qualifiers once more.

Unfortunately unlike with Keegan it has took us 10 years to replace Sir Bobby and we still haven't done it.

1.Bernabeu
2.Di Stefano
3.Raul

Cruyff-Michels-VanGaal

Lord Spencer wrote:For Milan I am going with a top 5:

1- Berlusconi and Galliani:

Despite all the hate these guys get now, with the first's money and influence and with the second's transfer intelligence, Milan had their most successful period in history.

Also, since the period coincided with the rise of TV viewership, Milan are now set as a powerhouse traditionally without actually being one at the moment.

2- The Maldini family:

The Maldini's can actually get first place if any of Paolo's sons become club legends. As it stand now, Cesare Maldini won 4 Serie As and one CL.

Paolo in the other hand won 7 Serie As and 5 CL among other trophies. Here is hoping his son follow in their footsteps.

3- Nils Liedholm:

As one of the famous Swedish trio Gre-No-Li, Nils was the mastermind behind Milan's first Serie Title in 50 years, and also their first period of dominance. Not stopping with his sport career, Nils went on as a coach for Milan in a semi-successful stint with a CL final to his name both as a player (losing against Di Stefano's Madrid) and as a Coach (losing to the famous 80's Liverpool on penalties).

4- Arrigo Sacchi:

Sacchi did not only evolve Milan, but also football as a whole. His style resonated with Milan throughout their Berlu era, and it is the reason Milan were more successful commercially than other teams in that era. If his era was just five years ahead, Milan might have become a powerhouse to rival United.

5- Carlo Ancelotti:

Carlo first made his print as a player in the Sacchi era, and then came back as a manager.

IMO, Carlo could have been much more successful with the team he had. Milan from 2003-2007 had the strongest spine in the world, and it were Carlo's mistakes that not cost us 2004's match against Deportivo, 2005 Final againt Liverpool, and 2006 Semi against Barca.

While it can be said that Ancelotti lost the plot too many times to be in this list, he still assembled a Milan team that managed to dominate Europe for five years.

Arguably, Carlo's greatest achievement is turning Pirlo into a DLP, which payed dividends for Milan, Italy, and now to Juventus.

i'm curious, no trio of van basten, gullit & rijkaard?

1- Gamper
2- Cruyff
3- Laporta/Rosell/Rijkaard/Ronaldinho
4- Pep/Xavi/Messi/Iniesta

guest_07 wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Bill Shankly.

how about bob paisley or steven gerrard or gerrard houllier?

We were in a mess before Shankly took over. He is the one who has made us one of the successful teams of the English football that we are. He laid the foundation and Paisley carried forward his legacy.

Gerrard has been an important part of our club but he has just won us a CL so far, albeit a memorable one. We're still lacking a PL trophy under his influence.

Houllier: U WOT M8?

If I had to name the top 5, it'd probably be this:
1. Shankly
2. Dalglish
3. Paisley
4. Gerrard
5. Rush

guest_07 wrote:

Lord Spencer wrote:For Milan I am going with a top 5:

1- Berlusconi and Galliani:

Despite all the hate these guys get now, with the first's money and influence and with the second's transfer intelligence, Milan had their most successful period in history.

Also, since the period coincided with the rise of TV viewership, Milan are now set as a powerhouse traditionally without actually being one at the moment.

2- The Maldini family:

The Maldini's can actually get first place if any of Paolo's sons become club legends. As it stand now, Cesare Maldini won 4 Serie As and one CL.

Paolo in the other hand won 7 Serie As and 5 CL among other trophies. Here is hoping his son follow in their footsteps.

3- Nils Liedholm:

As one of the famous Swedish trio Gre-No-Li, Nils was the mastermind behind Milan's first Serie Title in 50 years, and also their first period of dominance. Not stopping with his sport career, Nils went on as a coach for Milan in a semi-successful stint with a CL final to his name both as a player (losing against Di Stefano's Madrid) and as a Coach (losing to the famous 80's Liverpool on penalties).

4- Arrigo Sacchi:

Sacchi did not only evolve Milan, but also football as a whole. His style resonated with Milan throughout their Berlu era, and it is the reason Milan were more successful commercially than other teams in that era. If his era was just five years ahead, Milan might have become a powerhouse to rival United.

5- Carlo Ancelotti:

Carlo first made his print as a player in the Sacchi era, and then came back as a manager.

IMO, Carlo could have been much more successful with the team he had. Milan from 2003-2007 had the strongest spine in the world, and it were Carlo's mistakes that not cost us 2004's match against Deportivo, 2005 Final againt Liverpool, and 2006 Semi against Barca.

While it can be said that Ancelotti lost the plot too many times to be in this list, he still assembled a Milan team that managed to dominate Europe for five years.

Arguably, Carlo's greatest achievement is turning Pirlo into a DLP, which payed dividends for Milan, Italy, and now to Juventus.

i'm curious, no trio of van basten, gullit & rijkaard?

Yeah and the too. My list would be in chronological order.

1) Herbert Kiplin: Founder of Milan and our best player in the infant years of the Italian league. Won us a set of trophies which we would not win for nearly 50 years, designed our iconic red and black jersey too and also gave us the nickname of Il Diavolo.

2) Cesare Maldini and Gre-No-Li: The faces of Milan for our period of dominance in the 50s. Made us a powerhouse in Italy.

3) Nereo Rocco and Gianni Rivera: The coach and player  made Milan the European powerhouse and household name we know today. Rocco, the mastermind of cantenaccio won us 2 CLs and made us the strongest team in Italy. Rivera meanwhile was our best player and best player in all of Europe. He was the face of Italian football and one of Europe's biggest superstars whose name was synonymous with Milan. 2 CLs and Ballon D Or to his name, it's not a coinicidence Milan fell in decline after he retired.

4)B & G: Berlusconi's money and influence and Galliani's management and transfer dealings made Milan the most successful club in the world. They made Milan one the very best and successful clubs in the history of football.

5) Sacchi, Capello, Baresi, Maldini and the Dutch trio: The coach who revolutionised football and the mastermind behind one of the greatest teams in football history. Two of the very best defenders in history and servants who player for Milan for almost a combined 50 years. Three of the very finest players of their generation. Then you have the person who inherited the team and bought even more success.

6) Carlo Anceolotti: Made the Milan side that dominated in Europe and raised our stellar reputation and prestige even higher in the modern era.