Kick wrote:
While I don't think Courtois is top 5, he's certainly top 15 and one of the youngest top class GK's in the world. He

*applause*

Finally a Chelsea fan not blinded by bias.

De gea is irreplacble atm. Only thing he hasnt got is a body of work because hes so young

free_cat wrote:

Blue Barrett wrote:

The Franchise wrote:The 6 Free said were undisputed better than him, those 6 plus Julio and Lloris for sure. Weidenfeller is also a safer goalkeeper to me, even if less talented and I prefer his safety.

Those guys are for me better, some of the other names I am not sure about.

So you're referring to the first 6 he named, then? Of which Valdes is really nothing special(don't act like he is)

Dude, if you are trying to argue that Courtois is better than Valdes you should stop watching football. It's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read. Valdes is currently the most on form GK in the world, and he has been for the last 5 years except the past season.

So you reply a supposedly ridiculous statement with an insanely ridiculous one. Touché.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Was bored, so came up with this. Couldn't find a detailed list anywhere else.



Shot-stopping definitely isn't the only thing that defines a great goalkeeper, but when you're supposedly one of the top goalkeepers in the world, you surely need to be in the list of the top 10 shot-stoppers in domestic competition, no?

You pull up a list of GKs in the premier league because.....????

^ Me thinks it's related to the Lloris hype.

On topic - he's not top 5, he's a top 5 prospect for sure but keepers like Cech, Handanovic, Neuer, de Gea or Weidenfeller are better atm.

Lloris's best attribute isn't even shot stopping, his job for Tottenham that is so fantastic is his sweeping up between the high line. Lloris does an amazing job reading the game and coming out of his box and getting rid of the danger before it even develops.

See: his tackle on (Giroud?) in the NLD. Which is a game that would have been an embarrassment if not for Lloris.

That list is a joke anyhow. Tremmel and Marshall >> Cech, and whoever Gazzanigga is is surely better than Lloris. We can also see how Hart, Vorm, and Krul should be playing for bottom half teams.

Anybody I've ever talked to who has watched Lloris play for Tottenham even semi-regularly says he's a top goalkeeper, and it's obvious. He's been doing it consistently enough even before Tottenam (3 time Ligue 1 GK of the year, French NT captain) to say that he's up there with the very best.

Not that I take your opinion seriously anyway though as you hate everything Tottenham. Not surprised given you support Liverpool.

Blue Barrett wrote:

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Was bored, so came up with this. Couldn't find a detailed list anywhere else.



Shot-stopping definitely isn't the only thing that defines a great goalkeeper, but when you're supposedly one of the top goalkeepers in the world, you surely need to be in the list of the top 10 shot-stoppers in domestic competition, no?

You pull up a list of GKs in the premier league because.....????

To show how overrated Lloris is, statistically?

How is the the list a joke? Shot-stopping isn't the only attribute that defines a great keeper as I said but nonetheless it is an important one. That's like saying xyz is a great poacher but goal scoring isn't his forte. Preventing opponent from scoring a goal is the keeper's main job. If you're talking about sweeper keepers, then look no further than Valdes, he protects the back line and undoubtedly reads the game better than Lloris. But he's also great in one-on-ones and a brilliant shot stopper. That's what makes him a world-class keeper.

Tremmel is a great shot-stopper, scrubs like Marshall and McGregor will eventually fall down the list after playing more games. Krul actually plays for a team that finished bottom half last season. Vorm doesn't really play for a legitimate hotshot team, does he? Hart has been making too many errors recently and has been bombarbed by the manager, the media.. so I'm not surprised with his low ranking on the list. Cech, who I consider the best keeper in the world atm, has not proven me wrong statistically with his high save percentage.

Anyways, up until two years back I used to like Tottenham.. until they started becoming massively overrated after AVB took over.

CBarca wrote:You can nitpick what I can say or respond to it as a whole. Either way, even with the nitpicking, from someone who watches the France NT consistently ...

Don't bother trying to use words you don't understand the meaning of. I did not "nitpick" at your post at all -- look at how many independent clauses you had in your single post. For example: (1) One of the best goalkeepers in the Premier League, and saves Tottenham's average defense, (2) You would love to see him play for Barcelona, and (3) Lloris is fantastic for France. I could not care less about Lloris' exploits for Tottenham.

sportsczy wrote:Just from a France NT standpoint... Lloris has been saving our arse a lot since 2010.

Of course, Lloris has been "saving France's arse" in meaningless friendlies and weak competitive qualifiers. He was an embarrassment at the 2010 World Cup, where Chicharito made a mockery of Lloris when he came off his line. Against South Africa, he flapped at the corner that resulted in a goal. At EURO 2012, he flapped at Lescott's header against England. These are all mistakes that resulted in a goal obviously, but there are probably a dozen more from these two tournaments where something stupid he has done went unpunished. For example, Sweden at EURO 2012 and South Africa at WC 2010.

sportsczy wrote:As an example, the 2 Spain games in WCQ:  In the first one, he was nothing short of incredible.  Saved a PK and made incredible saves...  even in the 1-0 loss in Paris, he got a hand on that tap in by Pedro.  He was an inch away from saving it from point blank.

No, that is not the case. In the first match, Ramos' goal was basically his fault. So far away off his line from the initial header, lucky that it hit the post, then he goes out of his way to make an acrobatic dive that he parries right to Ramos. Watch a replay of it, Sakho literally was in the midst of his foot-swinging motion to clear the ball, and he was in an unfavourable position and unable to react quick enough due to Lloris. In the second match, he should have been sent off for denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity to Pedro. How the referee did not at least call Lloris' obvious foul on Pedro in the box is mind-boggling.

sportsczy wrote:He's made mistakes as all keepers do but I have the good fortune of watching him week in week out and he's a top 5 goalkeeper and, relating this back to the thread, much better than Courtois, who...I also watch fairly regularly.

He makes more mistakes than he should. Lloris is likely the most error-prone "top 5" goalkeeper out there.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:If you're talking about sweeper keepers, then look no further than Valdes, he protects the back line and undoubtedly reads the game better than Lloris. But he's also great in one-on-ones and a brilliant shot stopper. That's what makes him a world-class keeper.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Shot-stopping definitely isn't the only thing that defines a great goalkeeper, but when you're supposedly one of the top goalkeepers in the world, you surely need to be in the list of the top 10 shot-stoppers in domestic competition, no?

You can't possibly say that. Victor Valdés is a "brilliant shot stopper" and then call Lloris "overrated statistically". Because using the same logic that you have used, as well as the same parameters, you would see that Valdés has a lower saves-shots percentage than Lloris.
2012/2013: 60 saves, 93 shots faced (64.51%)
2013/2014: 21 saves, 28 shots faced (75%)
Total: 81 saves, 121 shots faced (66.94%)

These statistics are readily available at the FC Barcelona website. I will not attempt to make a graphic depicting the saving percentage of La Liga goalkeepers, but if put in your initial chart, Valdés would be ranked as the 25th best shot stopper in the Premier League, five places behind Lloris.

That list really means very little, some goalkeepers will have less conceded shots because the defence in front sits deep and defends well - more shots from distance = better saving percentage. The same way some goalkeepers concede more shots closer to the goal that are harder to save because the team is attacking minded and naturally concede more shots = worse saving percentage.

For me Lloris is a world class goalkeeper, all around fantastic - on and off the line, he's commanding in the box, a fantastic shot stopper and doesn't commit too many errors as someone like Neuer for example does.

Atl lost beacuse of the own goal

Oh come on - that's 1 mistake! If you would consider each squandered chance by a strike a mistake, you should realise how close to perfection a GK has to be in each match - and if a GK does one mistake, he is more often than not ridiculed.

http://t.co/ueA6tpF0ym

Valdes showing why he is the best GK in the world right now.
And this considering most of his saves are one on ones...

Coutois with a good %, but very few saves because Atletico concedes very few opportunities, and most of them are probably long shots.

not top 5 but top 3


for me
Neur
Courtois
Sirigu

Cech > Sirigu.

I'd take De Gea over him as well.

Blue Barrett wrote:Cech > Sirigu.

I'd take De Gea over him as well.

as mourinho said the third goal was laughable.  

make it hard to see cech in the first 10

Killer wrote:

Blue Barrett wrote:Cech > Sirigu.

I'd take De Gea over him as well.

as mourinho said the third goal was laughable.  

make it hard to see cech in the first 10

Sirigu doesn't even have to deal with decent opposition for 90% of the season

Every GK has made an error at one point or the other. No GK actually goes an entire season without letting in one they could have saved. They aren't robots.

Blue Barrett wrote:Every GK has made an error at one point or the other. No GK actually goes an entire season without letting in one they could have saved. They aren't robots.

That. If you would hold strikers to the same measure you use for GKs, there would be not a single striker even near a Top100 anywhere.

No Courtois is not top 5 since TOP 5 looks like this:

1.BUFFON
2.BUFFON
3.BUFFON
4.BUFFON
5.BUFFON

Courtois is best GK in the world right now not even close

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:Courtois is best GK in the world right now not even close

Yea let's not delve into the realm of unnecessary hyperbole and sensationalism as few will take you seriously with a post like that.

Arquitescu wrote:

El Chelsea Fuerte wrote:Courtois is best GK in the world right now not even close

Yea let's not delve into the realm of unnecessary hyperbole and sensationalism as few will take you seriously with a post like that.

ok remove the not even close part sorry

not everything which is best is good. Medicine tastes bad but its good for you.

huntsman wrote:not everything which is best is good. Medicine tastes bad but its good for you.

how can mirrors be real if our eyes arent real?

I decided to put the language question here: http://www.goallegacy.net/t35381-linguistics-what-language-do-deaf-people-think-in

And now back to topic, please.