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Winter Window || Jan 2014

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M99
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Post by Art Morte Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:52 pm

donttreadonred wrote:If Gerrard and Rodgers dedicate themselves to playing him in a regista role, then I think Gerrard has a lot of the qualities necessary to be a top-class regista. The only problem is that I’m not sure we have the set-up to play with a regista. Moreover, the system Brendan describes as his preferred system in his interview is similar to Barcelona’s (Guardiola’s) magic 4-3-3. That system doesn’t really use a regista.

Look at Barcelona’s set-up for a minute. The role Gerrard would be occupying is manned by Busquets. Busquets is far from a regista. In truth, he is closer to a very technical CB that begins higher up the pitch, dropping into the backline when in possession and stepping forward between the lines when out of possession. He’s a pressure release valve and shield, not the controller that Gerrard is being asked to be. Busquets’ role is more suited to a hybrid CB/DM such as Javi Martinez, Capoue, M’Vila, De Rossi, etc. The closest we have to that type of player is Lucas. However, as we’ve seen in recent seasons, his combination of pace and positional discipline have let him down.

A far more apt comparison to what Gerrard is being asked to do is Andrea Pirlo. (Under Ancelotti, Pirlo actually made the very same move from AM to regista, but he did it far earlier in his career.) Pirlo is no defensive midfielder, and you can see this by the way the midfields have been structured around him. At Milan, he was often employed at the base of a midfield diamond or a midfield 5 (Christmas tree), with 2 shuttlers on either side of him. At least one of these players was usually a combative midfielder/destroyer-type, ala Gattuso.

More recently, Pirlo has been employed at the base of a 1-2 triangle in Juventus’ midfield. However, this midfield is very different in composition and quality to ours. When they first employed this tactic, Juve used Marchisio and Vidal in front of him. Marchisio is more of an all-around CM, but Vidal certainly was an out-and-out DM. Both players are competent at pressing and tackling, and are also very willing runners, often doing Pirlo’s running for him. Now, Juve often use Pogba and Vidal in front of him. Pogba is far more Viera than Makalele, but he’s no slouch in the tackle, and at 19 he has the legs to cover the entire field of play. Moreover, their midfield three is supported by an extra central defender playing directly behind Pirlo. Therefore, Pirlo is never asked to drop between the CB and act as the 3rd CB while in possession. He’s allowed to sit closer to the midfield and continue to direct play.

Gerrard does have one advantage in that he has always been a more physical player than Pirlo. However, he’s beginning to lose his legs, and he’s certainly not accustomed to the positioning of a shielding player, nor the discipline to hold that position in order to uphold his defensive responsibilities. That sounds far more pessimistic than intended, but it’s not wholly untrue. I do think this set-up can work against certain opposition. My concern is if this is our long-term strategy for all matches. If we’re going to use Gerrard in this role, we will require either a change in formation, more combative/mobile CMs, or possibly both.

In short, while I applaud the innovation of the tactics, I’m concerned about their viability in the long-term and their effect on our transfer policy.

I think this deserves a reply, especially after the Aston Villa game.

What I find particularly interesting is the comparison of Busquets to a technical CB. In a way I feel that's exactly what we would need in our current system. In a nutshell: Lucas isn't technical enough and Gerrard is still learning that DM role. I think he can defend all right, but doesn't have the mind-set of anticipating situations from a defensive point of view. In fact, our pressing system seems to be very much still taking its baby steps.

So - and this is a bit of a wrong thread for this, but I'll ask it anyway - what should be our XI and formation in our next games? Was the poor home performance against Aston Villa only a tactical blip since they are a very different side compared to pretty much any other PL team? Or should we start considering dropping one of our shining attacking players for a midfielder:

a) Drop Coutinho. Creative passes from AM positions would be reduced quite a bit.

b) Drop Sterling. Lose width and one-on-one ability in favour of midfield steel.

c) Drop Sturridge. Play with a lone striker Suarez and gain better control in midfield and out wide.

d) Keep them all, Coutinho, Sterling and Sturridge on the pitch with Suarez and hope that we are still able to dominate games.

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Post by ExtremistEnigma Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:32 pm

Play our normal midfield 3.. Gerrard-Lucas-Hendo or Allen-Lucas-Hendo, preferably the latter as simple as that. Get atleast two decent versatile midfielders who can do it all (in the mould of Nainggolan) in these next two windows.

BR is basically trying to use Gerrard as a Pirlo or Xabi and made to support the defense all by himself which will never work.. he (they) need defensively sound players playing alongside them in the midfield to function properly.

If we want to play some weird ass 4-2-4 then some physical presence in the midfield is undoubtedly required. As it stands, Hendo is our most physical midfielder lol.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:49 am

A regista very rarely works in the PL, and if you do play with a regista, you NEED a defensive midfielder next to him; not 2 attacking players.

The PL tempo is A LOT more quicker than the Serie A and La Liga, so the likes of Pirlo and Xabi have more time on the ball. Gerrard just gets closed down as soon as he see's the ball.

Gerrard doesn't even know how to play the role. He's 33. Alonso learnt the role since he was a kid, Pirlo made the transition early on in his career, it's a hard role to adapt too.

Stop f*cking around with these experimentations, we've lost atleast 10+ points because we've f*cked up tactically. Stop making shit difficult for us, and go back to how we played last season.

If Lucas is injured for a while, we're in trouble. Allen can play his part for a couple of games or so, but anything longer than that and we're in trouble. Maybe now Lucas will get the recognition he deserves when he's not playing, maybe you guys can see what he brings to the squad when he comes back from injury. Just hoping it's not his damn knee.
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Post by Red Alert Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:21 am


Liverpool will step up their pursuit of FC Basel winger Mohamed Salah this week.

The Reds held initial talks with the Swiss outfit before Christmas but were put off by the £12million asking price for the Egypt international.

However, following discussions between manager Brendan Rodgers and principal owner John W Henry who attended Saturday's 2-2 draw with Aston Villa, Liverpool are expected to table a formal offer for the 21-year-old.

Basel are reluctant to sell Salah as they want him to stay until the end of the season and help them clinch the title.

However, the Reds, who value Salah at around £7m, will test that resolve as Rodgers eyes reinforcements to help in the club's pursuit of Champions League qualification.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/liverpool-fc-test-basel-resolve-6527808

Finally a reliable source...
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Post by Red Alert Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:26 am

If Lucas has another serious injury, I'd personally buy Schneiderlin from Southampton in the summer. Can't see them selling now.

With that said, we need a stop gap / 6 month loan option until the summer... or we're not getting CL.
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Post by Fahim89 Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:06 am

Well Pearce did report this before but wasn't sure of the time frame or the intensity of LFC's interest  hmm 
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Post by McAgger Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:16 am

I think the owners being there and Rodgers speaking to them has finally given us some sort of a green light to go on our transfer.

I think we'll sign Salah in the next 10 days. I don't think it's a coincidence that echo, guardian, express are all reporting it now in the same day.
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Post by Nishankly Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:20 pm

Mohamed Salah's chase heats up as LFC set to agree a deal with Basel. The Egyptian winger also admitted he only wants to join LFC. (Sky Sports)

LFC will not renew Glen Johnson's £100k a week contract. (Times)

LFC will look for a CM to replace Lucas as Allen and Gerrard seem a bit injury prone this season (Liverpool Echo)
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Post by Art Morte Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:01 pm

I feel I'm repeating myself, but an LW and a CM would complement our squad very nicely.

If Salah is coming, it only leaves the question about that CM. Who should it be? Or wait until the summer for that Derby youngster? Id really like Holtby as a January signing, since he isn't playing at Tottenham, but don't fancy paying what they'll ask for him. N'Zonzi or Mulumbu, then :coffee:
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Post by Fahim89 Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:36 pm

M'Villa??
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Post by iftikhar Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:09 pm

What happened to Fernando or that guy from Italian League!!!
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Post by RedOranje Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:48 pm

We've no interest in M'Vila at all, according to Tony Barrett of The Times.
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Post by Red Alert Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:17 am

We need cover for Lucas... let's hope we get one in because if it's a bad injury for Leiva, we won't make top 4. Gerrard can't play that role, Allen is half the player he is in that role, just bring in cover ffs. Mad

Tony Barrett states we're going to bid for Salah... but aren't willing to meet the 12m valuation of him.
Skysports are convinced Newcastle have joined the race for Salah.
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Post by Fahim89 Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:03 am

RedOranje wrote:We've no interest in M'Vila at all, according to Tony Barrett of The Times.

Hmmm . . well i guess for now the only name we would know is Salah  scratch 
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Post by Red Alert Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:12 am

Independent stating Nigel De Jong from AC Milan (former City player) may be a target.
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Post by iftikhar Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:11 am

Red Alert wrote:Independent stating Nigel De Jong from AC Milan (former City player) may be a target.

He is what 29!!! Clearly a stop-gap cover for Lucas. Didn't he had some discipline issues!!!
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Post by M99 Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:22 am

No chance in hell we will sell De Jong.
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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:56 am

M99 wrote:No chance in hell we will sell De Jong.
does he still play regularly play for you? How has been his performances in this season?

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Post by Red Alert Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:11 am

NDJ is class.

Only concern would be AC probably don't want to sell him. Seedorf has just become in charge, so probably doesnt want to do any deals as he gets a better understanding of his team until the summer.
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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:13 am

but he always looked clumsy when I saw him playing for ManCity

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Post by Red Alert Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:19 am

He'd be a good signing if we can pull it off.

He can pass, has good positional sense, can act as a destroyer as everyone on this forum wanks about them, and will get us top 4 if we can sign him.
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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:22 am

Red Alert wrote:He'd be a good signing if we can pull it off.

He can pass, has good positional sense, can act as a destroyer as everyone on this forum wanks about them, and will get us top 4 if we can sign him.
yeah sure if BR plays him

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Post by Red Alert Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:33 am

If we sign NDJ, and Lucas is injured, and NDJ is fit to play, he'll play.

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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:39 am

Its clear that we wont get him because it seems you appreciate the guy :coffee:

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Post by Red Alert Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:52 am

Sad
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Post by Helmer Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:54 pm

http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20140122/fichajes/el-mercado-de-fichajes-de-invierno-al-detalle_54399326421.html

i think we are linked with Hernanes there, how reliable it is hmm

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