It was both!
/football revolution

What are you guys on about, the pressing Barca employed was the single biggest reason behind their success. The apparent lack of it since Guardiola left is the reason they have struggled to maintain it.

VivaStPauli wrote:It was both!
/football revolution

This lol, the hard work was vital they get nowhere without it.

It's like saying a Car can perform without it's engine, sure it's nice to look at but it's going nowhere without its engine.

So you're telling me if Barca was full of scrubs but pressed just as well they'd be a good team? Of course not. And yet Gary Neville would have us believe hard work and pressing is the only thing missing from British teams

Who are Germany's best Tech player's. Gotze, Reus, & Ozil? Let's not kid ourselves here. Argentina have the better Tech players than Germany. The fact that the goal came from EX. Time adds more to the fact that it was Germany's Stamina and Metal prowess that ultimately ousted Argentina. Germany are better side overall, no doubt, but to say Germany have the more skillful players doesn't hold water to me and in the end it didn't matter.

Now back to England and Neville, England's problem is the lack the star power, simply put. Haven't seen a menacing England side since 2002 - 2010 England. That squad had a real shot at the  WC. The only thing they lack was a manager who could get the best out of them.

Disagree. Ozil, Gotze, Schweini, Kroos, Khedira. All miles better technically than Argentina's midfield. There's a reason Argentina parked the bus for the majority of the tournament - they weren't good enough. If anything, you could say they were the example of hard work, but they didn't win.

Lord Awesome wrote:Who are Germany's best Tech player's. Gotze, Reus, & Ozil? Let's not kid ourselves here. Argentina have the better Tech players than Germany. The fact that the goal came from EX. Time adds more to the fact that it was Germany's Stamina and Metal prowess that ultimately ousted Argentina. Germany are better side overall, no doubt, but to say Germany have the more skillful players doesn't hold water to me and in the end it didn't matter.

Nope.
Germanys players lack flair, not technique, you're confusing the two. One of the players with the best technique in the world is f*cking Bastian Schweinsteiger, mofo looks like a Diesel engine when he's running: uncomplicated, going in a straight line, yet can't be stopped, and almost never loses the ball. Despite it not looking like dribbling, he's often able to run past two to four players. Similarly Reus, Hummels, and Müller - they hardly look like they have any flair, yet the ball sticks to their feet. Only Götze, and to a larger extent Özil, look like they have flair, the technical ability the average Brazil fan (this is hyperbole, btw, I am aware of it) would recognize.

Do not confuse lack of flair with lack of technique, almost any player in the German NT is less likely to lose the ball in a 1on1 situation, or while stopping/receiving, than any Argentina player, bar Messi and Di Maria, and those two aren't really meaningfully ahead of players like Götze, Reus, Schweinsteiger, Özil, or f*cking Müller, who looks like a stork on PCP, yet never fumbles stopping a ball.

Now back to England and Neville, England's problem is the lack the star power, simply put. Haven't seen a menacing England side since 2002 - 2010 England. That squad had a real shot at the  WC. The only thing they lack was a manager who could get the best out of them.

Yes and no. They lack star power as long as you give it any meaning. TBH with how little Star Players England have, they'd probably be better off if they had zero star players and played like the US.

They keep thinking they can take other teams on technical ability alone, but they can't. They should recognize their own strengths and weaknesses better and they could play with the big boys.

Besides, they're not horrible. Their problem are the huge expectations, but realistically they're not any worse than teams like Portugal, which is respectable, imho.

I agree with everything Viva said. When italy won the 2006 world cup they didn't have that much flair and fancy but they had players with great technique. Del Piero, Totti and Pirlo are players that stick out to me. Those three have had some of the most beautiful techniques for their position in the last 15 years of world football, but they don't have the flair and fancy players like ronaldo, ronaldinhio and di maria have.

Del Piero was such a simple player in his hay day his turns and shots were beautiful it was like watching poetry in motion and that was mostly down to technique IMO.

Technique> Flair and Fancy. Also technique is more down to coaching and development flair and fancy is more talent. It just goes to show how good the footballing factories of Germany and Italy are.

Also, imho, you have better chances of winning tournaments if you have few weaknesses, than if you have many strengths.

Meaning, I'd rather have zero star players, but also zero scrubs, than a team with half scrubs, half star players.

2006 Italy had a few really good players, bot nothing as spectacular as Brazil or France, but they had a scrub-free squad. That's more important, imho.

What? So Buffon, Cannavaro and Zambrotta (the best players in the world in their position in 2006) weren't star players because they are defenders? To not mention how hilarious it is to not consider Pirlo, Totti and Del Piero in their prime star players.

VivaStPauli wrote:
Nope
Germanys players lack flair, not technique, you're confusing the two. One of the players with the best technique in the world is f*cking Bastian Schweinsteiger, mofo looks like a Diesel engine when he's running: uncomplicated, going in a straight line, yet can't be stopped, and almost never loses the ball. Despite it not looking like dribbling, he's often able to run past two to four players. Similarly Reus, Hummels, and Müller - they hardly look like they have any flair, yet the ball sticks to their feet. Only Götze, and to a larger extent Özil, look like they have flair, the technical ability the average Brazil fan (this is hyperbole, btw, I am aware of it) would recognize.

Do not confuse lack of flair with lack of technique, almost any player in the German NT is less likely to lose the ball in a 1on1 situation, or while stopping/receiving, than any Argentina player, bar Messi and Di Maria, and those two aren't really meaningfully ahead of players like Götze, Reus, Schweinsteiger, Özil, or f*cking Müller, who looks like a stork on PCP, yet never fumbles stopping a ball..

Now back to England and Neville, England's problem is the lack the star power, simply put. Haven't seen a menacing England side since 2002 - 2010 England. That squad had a real shot at the  WC. The only thing they lack was a manager who could get the best out of them.

Yes and no. They lack star power as long as you give it any meaning. TBH with how little Star Players England have, they'd probably be better off if they had zero star players and played like the US.

They keep thinking they can take other teams on technical ability alone, but they can't. They should recognize their own strengths and weaknesses better and they could play with the big boys.

Besides, they're not horrible. Their problem are the huge expectations, but realistically they're not any worse than teams like Portugal, which is respectable, imho.

I don't think I was broad enough with my post but here it goes.

What you guys call fancy or flair I just call style. I'm not saying the German players have 0 Tech either. Schwiensteiger definitely does have Technique but I feel his best attributes are his Physical attributes not his Technical ones. He's literally a Box to Box DM who can Pass and Dribble which is why he's up there amongst the best in the world. Now I'm aware that he started as a Side Midfielder and I'm sure that's how he picked up Dribbling. If one compares him to Masch I'd say Schweiny has the edge at everything minus the, on par Workrate, Marking, and Tackling. Now if we compare his Tech with Enzo Perez or Di Maria than it's a whole different story. Not saying that either of the 2 are better than Schwieny but they can most certainly do more with the ball on their feet than Schwieny can. Again I'm not judging this merely because they have flair. I'm aware that flair is only a style and it's not better or worse than a player having a different style. Reus & Muller don't seem all to Tech to me tho Rues is capable of a good pass at least but his Speed & Dribbling is what makes him good. Muller's just intelligent, simply put.
Don't rate his Tech play too much but he certainly makes up for it as he knows what to do most of the time. I rate Gomez above him, tho.

For England I agree. They actually tried keeping the ball this time around but they ended up losing to teams who are more used to doing just that.