Re: Qatar World Cup Scandals Thread

[farfan]

"in 2010, a total of 18 of their colleagues in the Shenzhen campus of the Taiwan-owned company did attempt suicide 14 died

that's where apple and microsoft products are made .

did any of you care? did any of you throw out their apple gadgets after hearing this ?


hypocrites...

[farfan]

giving the euro to a country where monkey chants and bananas are thrown in football matches was even more disgraceful.

well i'd personally rather have a banana thrown at me than die of heatstroke working in 50 degree weather, but that's just me

huh , red herring much ? he was talking about the atmosphere in football stadiums in qatar.

i'd rather play in an empty stadium than one where monkey chants are sung.

[che]

i personally don't own a single apple product, so there lol

in any case as i said, football forum, not human rights forum... sure, there is bad shit happening elsewhere, but what's going on in qatar is closely pertinent to the world cup, which is a football issue... nobody's saying that qatar are literally hitler and should stop whatever they're doing right now, but we don't want a country like that to host the biggest sporting event in the world... and for the record, there was massive outrage about china hosting the 2008 olympics

huh , red herring much ? he was talking about the atmosphere in football stadiums in qatar.

i'd rather play in an empty stadium than one where monkey chants are sung.

you called it "even more disgraceful", which clearly implies a comparison with qatar

[Doc]

Getting racial slurs and banana skins thrown at you really isn't the best thing in the world when you are of a certain complexion. Not as bad as dying but I reckon it is up there...

[farfan]

What a lovely picture...sigh

do you know the biggest mystery that eludes me ?

it's how hitler and nazi ideology is followed among some of these radical , eastern european groups , when hitler explicitly branded all slavic speakers as " Untermenschen ".

[sportsczy]

OK. Maybe i'm missing something

METHODOLOGY

The Global Slavery Index provides a ranking, reflecting a combined weighted measure of three variables:

1- Estimated prevalence of modern slavery in each country (accounting for 95% of the total)
2- A measure of the level of human trafficking to and from each country (accounts for 2.5%)
3- A measure of the level of child and early marriage in each country (accounts for 2.5%)

The data for the first variable ‘estimated prevalence’ (which accounts for the majority of the findings) were taken from 2 types of research:

1-  Secondary collection – a review of the public record, also referred to as secondary source information – published reports from governments, the investigations of non-governmental and international organizations, and journalistic reports across all media.
2-  Data from representative random sample surveys (meaning they are collected randomly and thus can reliably represent the larger population) – they yield a statistical estimate of the prevalence of modern slavery based on first-hand reports by individuals. Information gained in this way is superior to secondary sources, but is available for a limited number of countries. Because sample surveys do not exist for many countries, the Index uses representative sample data to statistically extrapolate the prevalence of slavery for select countries that have not yet had random sample surveys.

The data on the level of human trafficking in and out of a country were taken from the US Trafficking in Persons report whilst the child marriage numbers are from UNICEF.

That "secondary research" component doesn't mean that they get the data from the Qatar government at all.  They gather all the research reports available for that country (UN, Unicef, etc.), find commonality and then verify the findings to journalistic reports.  Once they get a good feel... they also go directly to first-hand reports by individuals (by surveying them) to see if it corroborates the findings of the available reports or if there are questions that need further investigation.  What the f is wrong with that?  That's how ALL census studies are done:  combine available research with in-house surveys.

[BarrileteCosmico]

You guys are comparing the suicides at Foxconn to  the death of over 900 people at Qatar? Do I seriously have to explain how depression and death from exhaustion caused by forced labor under desert heat without access to water are entirely different? Not to mention people at Foxconn can leave whenever they want, and the company has taken the suicides seriously and is trying to prevent it from happening any more. Meanwhile not a single Qatari official seems to even care about this.

I realize that the Qatar WC is not going anywhere so here is my proposed solution: The governments of the UK, Spain, Germany, Italy, France, Argentina, Uruguay & Brazil threaten to boycott the WC (similar to how some countries boycott the olympics through congressional laws) unless:
* Qatar drastically improves the working conditions for their workers and awards them basic rights.
* Qatar allows an international watchdog to oversee and report on the living and working conditions of these workers throughout the duration of the construction process.

The way I see it Qatar would be forced to either take this seriously or host the worst WC in history.

[che]

That "secondary research" component doesn't mean that they get the data from the Qatar government at all.

it literally says "published reports from governments" as a secondary source... i'm not saying that's the only source, but the governments obviously have an incentive to keep these practices covered up by a) not including them in their own reports and b) restricting access to journalists/other organisations... iirc vice had to go undercover when they were making the documentary on dubai, i can't imagine qatar is any less secretive about this

Once they get a good feel... they also go directly to first-hand reports by individuals (by surveying them) to see if it corroborates the findings of the available reports or if there are questions that need further investigation.  What the f is wrong with that?  That's how ALL census studies are done:  combine available research with in-house surveys.

censuses doesn't rely on subjective information and personal biases, you're just asking people if they exist... first hand reports on slavery, especially from randomly distributed surveys, just screams errors... for starters, you have no idea how educated the respondents are about the things you're asking them, you have no idea what their agenda is (are they inclined to show their country in a positive light?), how secretive the people themselves are (e.g. there's a ton of research how people from eastern cultures tend to be more agreeable and collectivist in research surveys)

point is that the methodology on something like this is never going to be rock solid so this kind of research should never serve as anything conclusive... sure it does have some informational value, but that's about it

[The_Badger]

You haven't seen Chinese construction projects...  they just leave them.  Pour concrete over the bodies and it becomes part of the building foundation.  I'll never forget checking out a potential building site along the river in Macau and seeing a body washed up ashore...  it was unbelievable.  This was in 2006.

When the US was modernizing itself in the 20s and 30s, i hope i don't have to tell you 1000s of people that died in the coal mines and the building projects in large cities.  Even when slavery was abolished in the US...  it never went away until the civil rights movement of the 60s brought the issue to light.

The UK... should i bring up the plight of the Irish?

How about the white terror in Spain?

The colonial impact on Africa how it has led to the current atrocities is well documented as well.

Are the living conditions and mortality rates better in the favelas all across South America?

So before you point the finger at someone else, point it at yourself first.  None of it is excusable.  But the hypocrisy is unreal here...  Qatar is going through its industrial revolution and there have always been issues with a hyper rate of growth.  

Where's the hypocrisy? I keep seeing people throw this word around, but never in a valid context.

Attempting to draw comparisons to things that happened decades or centuries ago to what is happening now in Qatar is embarrassing and shameful.

You and Zealous have attempted to excuses what has happened and smear the people on here that have raised issues by continually dragging up off-topic incidents that have no relevance to this thread.

[poolsupporter]

That "secondary research" component doesn't mean that they get the data from the Qatar government at all.

it literally says "published reports from governments" as a secondary source... i'm not saying that's the only source, but the governments obviously have an incentive to keep these practices covered up by a) not including them in their own reports and b) restricting access to journalists/other organisations... iirc vice had to go undercover when they were making the documentary on dubai, i can't imagine qatar is any less secretive about this

Once they get a good feel... they also go directly to first-hand reports by individuals (by surveying them) to see if it corroborates the findings of the available reports or if there are questions that need further investigation.  What the f is wrong with that?  That's how ALL census studies are done:  combine available research with in-house surveys.

censuses doesn't rely on subjective information and personal biases, you're just asking people if they exist... first hand reports on slavery, especially from randomly distributed surveys, just screams errors... for starters, you have no idea how educated the respondents are about the things you're asking them, you have no idea what their agenda is (are they inclined to show their country in a positive light?), how secretive the people themselves are (e.g. there's a ton of research how people from eastern cultures tend to be more agreeable and collectivist in research surveys)

point is that the methodology on something like this is never going to be rock solid so this kind of research should never serve as anything conclusive... sure it does have some informational value, but that's about it

Having lived in that part of the world for a very very long time and knowing a lot of influential people in the know, it's ridiculous how much shit the governments cover up.

Here's what I will say about this whole fiasco. I'm not trying to justify Qatar's handling of this, however a lot of people in the Middle East are so desensitized to these situations. Almost everyone there sees this kind of thing every day. (People working in shitty conditions, etc.) No one I know over there (locals) takes a second look at these situations. And I'll admit for the most part I am like that too because it is so commonplace. But I've also lent money to quite a few of these people who I have encountered in some way or another to help them out. (Guys working at sheesha joints, pool halls, house boys, etc.)

It sucks and frankly speaking, nothing is going to change in my opinion.

[arabprince]

You haven't seen Chinese construction projects...  they just leave them.  Pour concrete over the bodies and it becomes part of the building foundation.  I'll never forget checking out a potential building site along the river in Macau and seeing a body washed up ashore...  it was unbelievable.  This was in 2006.

When the US was modernizing itself in the 20s and 30s, i hope i don't have to tell you 1000s of people that died in the coal mines and the building projects in large cities.  Even when slavery was abolished in the US...  it never went away until the civil rights movement of the 60s brought the issue to light.

The UK... should i bring up the plight of the Irish?

How about the white terror in Spain?

The colonial impact on Africa how it has led to the current atrocities is well documented as well.

Are the living conditions and mortality rates better in the favelas all across South America?

So before you point the finger at someone else, point it at yourself first.  None of it is excusable.  But the hypocrisy is unreal here...  Qatar is going through its industrial revolution and there have always been issues with a hyper rate of growth.  

This. A million times this.

[Art Morte]

The thing here is, though, that why would the international community, FIFA in this case, contribute to those horrible construction industry conditions by granting a country with these issues a multi-billion dollar project that could just as well be organized in a country where it won't result in further misery of the poorest and loss of lives.

[chinomaster182]

The thing here is, though, that why would the international community, FIFA in this case, contribute to those horrible construction industry conditions by granting a country with these issues a multi-billion dollar project that could just as well be organized in a country where it won't result in further misery of the poorest and loss of lives.

Plus the fact that a country like say... Holland already has all the damn stadiums needed AND the infrastructure AND some money to burn on party stuff, not a single person would have to die there.

But like my favorite System of a Down song says "the bottom line is money, nobody gives a *bleep*".

[1991]

Watching sportsczy pulling mental gymnastics trying to defend this terrible WC host is entertaining.

[Mr_Puyol]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-04-20/qatar-cuts-number-of-world-cup-soccer-stadiums-amid-rising-costs.html

[B-Mac]

to much of the budget was for bribes and not stadiums i guess

[Mr_Puyol]

http://bluefoottv.com/projects/e60-qatars-world-cup/

[BarrileteCosmico]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/01/fifa-call-vote-qatar-world-cup-emails-mohamed-bin-hammam

Journalists reveal what everyone already knew

[BarrileteCosmico]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40155829

6 ME countries cut ties with Qatar over promoting instability in the region

[Bellabong]

Death toll rises in the lead up to the 2022 World Cup

"According to a report published by the International Trades Union Confederation (ITUC) approximately 1200 workers have already died since the World Cup was awarded to Qatar in 2010."

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/death-toll-rises-in-the-lead-up-to-the-2022-world-cup/news-story/43896b31023dd6ab6ed213637fe4d3e7

Absolutely despicable, it's an atrocity Qatar got this World Cup















































or wait



And for reference



Keep your wits about you folks

[McLewis]

I can't and won't watch this WC. Period.

I really really hope others don't as well.

[iftikhar]

The human rights/working condition is same across the Arabian Peninsula.

The funny part is we don't get to know the death (or rape) of some Bangladeshi worker in local news channel or official sources; it's usually some third party source that provides the news.

[Unique]

The human rights/working condition is same across the Arabian Peninsula.

The funny part is we don't get to know the death (or rape) of some Bangladeshi worker in local news channel or official sources; it's usually some third party source that provides the news.

tbh its shit like this that pisses me off. we had the world going crazy about a dumb flag in america that represents slavery yet slavery if rife in some parts of the world and nothing gets done about it.

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