Re: Champions and Europa League Groups Stage Draw 2013/14

by M99 Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:58 am

El Shaarawy wrote:I kind of wanna see how we fare against Dortmund (I know we'll get wrecked)

Porto
~~Fiorentina~~ PSV
Dortmund
Kazakhstan

Otherwise

Porto
~~Fiorentina~~ PSV
Olympiacos
Kazakhstan

by Kick Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:59 am

rwo power wrote:
Kick wrote:Chelsea still in pot 1
Chelsea made coefficient points en masse in the EL.

And winning the CL the year before that Proud

Dem trophies.

I wouldn't mind a group of:
Chelsea
OM
Gala
Anderlecht

by halamadrid2 Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:02 am

Dortmund is the kind of team that capitalizes on counters with their crisp passing. Milan dont usually dominate posession so it will probably be another Malaga vs Dortmund game

by Firenze Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:06 am

fatman123 wrote:BVB and City will be last seaons Juve, they'll give the top two seeds a hard time

They would be favourites against 70% of them

by sportsczy Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:07 am

I don't understand how in the world Europa play gives you points for CL seeding. It shouldn't. You should get nothing for Europa play in regards to CL seedings.

The seedings are a joke.

by Forza Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:08 am

The Kazakhstan team is Shakhter Karagandy btw.

by Firenze Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:10 am

sportsczy wrote:I don't understand how in the world Europa play gives you points for CL seeding. It shouldn't. You should get nothing for Europa play in regards to CL seedings.

The seedings are a joke.

I guess it gives the bigger teams incentive field stronger sides? the actual coefficients are more valuable than the EL trophy itself

by AltoZ Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:12 am

ManU
CSKA
Basel
Shakhter Karagandy

Book it.

by Firenze Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:16 am

a cold night in Karagandy is a tough game for anyone :coffee:

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:51 am

sportsczy wrote:I don't understand how in the world Europa play gives you points for CL seeding. It shouldn't. You should get nothing for Europa play in regards to CL seedings.

Because otherwise the CL would be a closed shop as countries with leagues that don't necessarily get a CL starting place would never get a chance to collect coefficient points.

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:52 am

AltoZ wrote:ManU
CSKA
Basel
Shakhter Karagandy

Book it.

Never underestimate the power of Baselona :coffee:

by 7amood11 Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:19 pm

rwo power wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I don't understand how in the world Europa play gives you points for CL seeding. It shouldn't. You should get nothing for Europa play in regards to CL seedings.
Because otherwise the CL would be a closed shop as countries with leagues that don't necessarily get a CL starting place would never get a chance to collect coefficient points.

But the CL is still far ahead of the EL in terms of quality, so a team that wins the Europa League shouldn't receive as many coefficient points as a CL-winning team, as the case is now. EL coefficient points shouldn't have as much weight as CL coefficient points.

by Art Morte Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:21 pm

It is well funny that Schalke are seeded in pot-2 while Dortmund are in pot-3 x)

ManU and Leverkusen in the same group, pls make it happen, so that Hyypiä can kick United's arse one more time Proud

by Bellabong Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:26 pm

EL may be less prestigious but it's still teams of supposedly equal skill fighting it out. Why should Champions vs. Champions matter more in determining relative seedings of the leagues than upper table teams facing each other?

by 7amood11 Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:05 pm

Phritz wrote:EL may be less prestigious but it's still teams of supposedly equal skill fighting it out. Why should Champions vs. Champions matter more in determining relative seedings of the leagues than upper table teams facing each other?

To be honest, that's a fair point.

by S Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:11 pm

Arsenal
PSG
Dortmund
Napoli

by TenMenWonTheLeague Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:25 pm

Stop writing us off, we aren't out yet tongue

We are capable of beating this team from Kazakhstan by more than 2 goals, of we actually play our own style of play instead of adjusting depending on who we play.

by stevieg8 Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:36 pm

Phritz wrote:EL may be less prestigious but it's still teams of supposedly equal skill fighting it out. Why should Champions vs. Champions matter more in determining relative seedings of the leagues than upper table teams facing each other?

Well I'd say that because the coefficients are supposed to be a measure of team strength, the quality of competition matters greatly... You don't rank the Championship winners alongside ManU, do you? It doesn't mean winning the Championship is easier, because it's competition at an equal level, but ManU would (and will) win that game 9 times out of 10.

by AltoZ Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:58 pm

The worst teams from Pot 1 are Portugese + ManU,

Arsenal never gets KO'ed in the Group Stage. And they will buy some new players.

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:03 pm

stevieg8 wrote:Well I'd say that because the coefficients are supposed to be a measure of team strength, the quality of competition matters greatly... You don't rank the Championship winners alongside ManU, do you? It doesn't mean winning the Championship is easier, because it's competition at an equal level, but ManU would (and will) win that game 9 times out of 10.

Well, but that's why the CL has the first 1-4th or 1-3rd teams of a league, while the EL has the 4-6th or 5-7th plus the Cup winners. So each of the competitions measures the strength of a slightly different segment of a league. So you can see by the additon of points of CL and EL actually the relative strength of the leagues and not just of their top teams.

by Bellabong Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:22 pm

Since when are they a standard of a teams strength? If they were it'd be an ELO based coefficient (like just about every competition related ranking system) and not a flat points bonus determining aptitude in European competition. Heck, sometimes it doesn't matter who wins because penalty shootouts = 1 point per team, no matter who wins the shootout.

There's a difference in ranking how well a team does well in European competition and ranking them based on betting odds.

by BarcaLearning Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:16 pm

That group of death, I hope Man C get an easier group this time surely. Same goes with Napoli who deserve more luck.

How the hell did Dortmund end up in pot 3?

by Tomwin Lannister Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:20 pm

Considering Juves schedule is disgusting in Serie A this year, i'd like a nice easy group. Maybe with 1 top pot 1 team to let us prepare for the knockouts.

by sportsczy Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:22 pm

rwo power wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I don't understand how in the world Europa play gives you points for CL seeding. It shouldn't. You should get nothing for Europa play in regards to CL seedings.
Because otherwise the CL would be a closed shop as countries with leagues that don't necessarily get a CL starting place would never get a chance to collect coefficient points.

But you face 1000x tougher competition in CL and you can easily get less points than a team that gets into the final 4 of Europa. It makes no sense. It's punishment enough for teams who play poor sides in Europa and get kicked out... they get no points.

It's about the best teams getting seeds. Nobody gives a frak about what country they come from. It's not a communist event lol.

by Tomwin Lannister Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:24 pm

Yeah it pisses me off how influential the Europa games are.

The whole tournament is a joke, and it punishes clubs who do Ok by consistently getting in the CL as opposed to mopping up points in the Europa.

by rwo power Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:29 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:The whole tournament is a joke, and it punishes clubs who do Ok by consistently getting in the CL as opposed to mopping up points in the Europa.

Where does it punish clubs who just do okay? Arsenal and Real are still in Pot 1 last I looked.

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