Agreed. He's burnt out. These past few years he's been playing every single minute with us, then with Argentina, along with doing his usually charity matches when he should be resting. Even through injury he keeps playing this is just the side effect.

I feel sorry for him that picture BC posted, I really want to hug him.   

I am not trying to hide the fact that Argentinia never has been a favoured team for me.

I can clearly see where all the talk about the best soccer player in the world comes from. Messi has incredible talent and abilities - yet - I stand corrected if I am mistaken here - in this WC there where numerous players showing better quality soccer (James just for one example)...

I am not happy with Messi getting this award...

Should have gone to Neuer as well. I feel for Messi no doubt - all this pressure of having to proove that he is as good or better than Maradonna (which I think is riduculous in the first place since the soccer that was palyed back then has little to do with what is going on on the turf right now... just think of Paul Gascoine and Mario Basler ... they could not stand 15 minutes of a match today... and I do not want to see, not even a young and physically fit Maradonna in a todays game - he would persumably fail badly imo) that all being said: Messi had numerous chances to proove himself but could not use them...

too bad...

This really have been a sad day, I've watched Messi since the rise of that Pep Barca and even a bit on and off b4 that, so obviously like everyone who watch him, in love with watching him. He is one of a kind player u see rarely every generation, so to realize that he is over his best is truly something....

Perfect things dont last forever as real life sucks so often, its been 4-5 years of pure magic watching him, enjoyed every moment of it. But its ended.... oh well, and as real life goes, u just have to adjust urself to it Will continue to watch him and just have a different expectation and appreciation.

For his best I hope he does take some time out and have a rest and think things over and recover. He is still top class and hopefully we will get to watch his magic for a long time to come.

MESSI!

Zizou wrote:I am not trying to hide the fact that Argentinia never has been a favoured team for me.

I can clearly see where all the talk about the best soccer player in the world comes from. Messi has incredible talent and abilities - yet - I stand corrected if I am mistaken here - in this WC there where numerous players showing better quality soccer (James just for one example)...

I am not happy with Messi getting this award...

Should have gone to Neuer as well. I feel for Messi no doubt - all this pressure of having to proove that he is as good or better than Maradonna (which I think is riduculous in the first place since the soccer that was palyed back then has little to do with what is going on on the turf right now... just think of Paul Gascoine and Mario Basler ... they could not stand 15 minutes of a match today... and I do not want to see, not even a young and physically fit Maradonna in a todays game - he would persumably fail badly imo) that all being said: Messi had numerous chances to proove himself but could not use them...

too bad...

Well if they are going by stats and influence on the game, which they probably are, then Messi was a good choice for them. I don't think a player has ever got as far as the quarter finals and won the award, so James didn't have a chance. He did get the Golden Shoe though.

Also with his influence Messi lead his team to the final. I honestly don't really give a shit about that award but I don't get why everyone gets so upset with Messi getting it. You don't have to score to be the best player, and you don't have to run either (look at Robben, scored as many as Messi in the knock out games yet everyone wants him to get it? Double standard)

- Most man of the match award - 4
- Scored 71.4% of the goals for Argentina
- Created the most chances at the WC - 23
- Completed the most take ons at the WC - 46
- Only player to score all of his goals from outside the box
- Also finished top 3 in multiple other stats.

Husteling was the only stat he didn't excel in. And only a few players scored more (and the ones that scored mroe also mostly scored in the groups). besides, scoring shouldnt make you the best player, thats what the Golden Shoe is for.

Had Pipita, Kun and Palacia finished even half of the chances Messi created and they could of been champs and Messi would have a ton of assists. I don't think Messi flopped, as much as the rest of the Argies did. Messi did better than the rest but needed one of them to step up and put them away.  

Back on topic, I think we jan ran his legs dry. That Guardiola era had Messi play EVERY game, and we played ALLOT.

Will share a few more thoughts.
I think everyone expected a Maradona 86 performance.Instead what we got over the course of the tournament was Maradona 90.
Maradona in 90 was a few levels below his best and clearly not in the best form.But he was still hugely influential and key in getting Argentina to the final.That Argentina too played defensive and with spurts of magic from Maradona reached the final.
Messi I thought had a similar tournament.Clearly way below his best level but still Argentina's best player and hugely influential in them reaching the final.Without him dont think they beat the Swiss.Spurts of magic to get them to the final but in the end fail against a very good German team.However I must say that Messi performed far better yesterday than Maradona did against the Germans in the 90 final.Maradona was a complete flop that day.
Messi I thought looked extremely dangerous on the ball.Skinned Hummels a few times and had other good dribbles.Just that final ball was lacking or a slip at the wrong time(Aguero slipping when Messi slipped him through).Another day with better luck,his final balls dont get intercepted and he gets a couple of assists.
When I say Messi flopped,I mean by his own GOD like standards that he had set.By a normal player's standard,I thought he played very well.

But Messi is not a normal player and he must be judged by his own very high standards.And he flopped when compared to his own standards.When I saw the German line up yesterday,I was sure that Messi would dominate.No Khedira in the lineup to hustle him.He was up against Kroos,Schweinsteiger and Howedes.Prime Messi would have destroyed them and owned the final.Unfortunately barring moments of magic,he couldnt quite do it.There is no way in hell that that midfield stops a prime Messi.

Prime Messi was a different animal altogether and still remains to this day the best player I have ever seen.Guy was a 3 in 1 player as dani said.Guy would participate in the build up play in midfield, playmake,deliver the final pass and then be there to finish off moves too.He was lethal and cutthroat and was a killer.A phenom.
This Messi is a shadow of prime Messi.

Yeah, Maradona 90 spurted some magic into Goycochea by missing a penalty.  

Maybe Messi is the best player of all time, maybe he is, maybe he isnt. Different people will say different things.

Winning this WC, I think even more people would say he is.

But for me, winning it or losing it, it made no difference to me. As I said, he might be the best of all time...but in this tournament, today in 2014...his level isnt the best of all time. I am not even convinced he is the best in the game right now.

The Franchise wrote:Maybe Messi is the best player of all time, maybe he is, maybe he isnt. Different people will say different things.

Winning this WC, I think even more people would say he is.

But for me, winning it or losing it, it made no difference to me. As I said, he might be the best of all time...but in this tournament, today in 2014...his level isnt the best of all time. I am not even convinced he is the best in the game right now.

I completely agree.
However he was at a crazy high level for many years, I guess we can all agree he isn't quite anymore at the moment, but what I cannot understand is why that makes him a worse player, in the logic of some.
He cannot keep his highest levels for eternity. He might improve again, or not.
Doesn't take anything away from what a player he is, what do people expect.
Messi was at top level very young, and reached his peak very early, after all. He has, at 27, probably been playing at absolute top level for as many years as other top players in their early 30s.

I understand, but I think now the question starts to become is he the man you want leading your team?

Now you might say he can just be part of a great team, still a crucial part. However, we seen already his ego doesnt take well to that. We saw his blackmail like demands ranging from playing position to minutes on the field. We get closer and closer to the point where his individual needs do not match with what the team needs..in fact, we are already there because this team needs to discover tactical variation and a high pressure defence. His game is a contradiction to those very things.

People can say what they want about Neymar, but "we" might be starting the countdown untill he (should) takes over this team on some level.

He wont be 22 forever and we already seen in this WC what the boy is capable of when let free.

Oh I understand. It's a dilemma.

That's what said somewhere else, if his levels drop beneath 'indispensable' status, as they maybe have to an extent last season, your management needs to start treating him like any other player: if his form isn't good enough, another player will start ahead of him. That rarely happened in last years, right?

Now I cannot judge that, I haven't seen that many of your games, and the ones Ive seen I thought your team performed better than most of Barca posters on here thought lol.
And obviously Messi is still delivering fantastic performance by certain standards, if not by the standards that one has become used to from him
But then again it's undeniable your team did very well when he was out injured.

So the simple thing is, your coach will have to decide what's best for the team. If he thinks Messi has to sit out now and then, or that the focus of the team has to shift a little away from him, then he needs to implement it. Maybe that will help Messi too.
Or do you think Messi's ego will be hurt so much he makes trouble?

Of course it's not so simple, because Messi has aquired a status different from other players, not the least in wages lol.
That's the inevitable downside of having an absolute standout star.
And he didn't come there by accident, he justified and 'earned' that over years.
Not only 'hurts' benching too much him if you pay him 20m € a year, also the money might complicate addressing the issues he might have.

Because Messi's body and what it performs is a multi-million € enterprise.
For example, IF he has medicinal issues (no idea, speculating, but the vomiting seems odd), with him it might be harder to just say "he has so and so and will have to rest for a while..".

Like with Ronaldo, the guy should not have played int the final CL stages and/or the WC, but he's become too big, and valuable, to just listen to doctors as obediently as other players might listen.

But I'm disgressing, and I dont know if that's even the case with Messi.

Guess my point is, if Enrique finds a way to bridge the discrepancy between Messi's indispensable status and the loss in performance he delivers for the team, by treating him more equal for example, by taking the pressure away etc., that could be good.

Suarez might actually help in that regard, maybe?

Did Tata actually rest and rotate Messi sometimes? I know I read Pep said everytime he left Messi out all hell broke loose in the Barcelona public.
But I wouldn't actually take Messi as the egotistical guy who wouldn't accept something like that?

I think what Pep meant about that was the board members, president, media outlets, local fans, etc all went crazy, as they always wanted to see Messi playing.

Yes I get that, but did that have actual an effect on selection policy? Is Messi sometimes rested, or does he always play when available?

he is played when available lately because the team depends on him far too much the last time i seen him rest was second match against bayern in the 12-13 champions league match shortly after being injured.
think he got subbed out once or twice last season early on but idk if you consider that rest.

Messi is never dropped and never subbed in a football decision, no. Tata did to some degree and while it didnt help Messi on a playing level you could argue it helped the team. I understand not subbing him off because he can impact the game at any moment, but we been saying on here for years how unneeded it is he plays in Copa games, plays in games we already 4, 5 nil up and so on.

I am not even sure him missing games will help him, he says he is tired and he seems tired..but to me, it doesnt look like residual tiredness, rather someone who became lazy and having a physical drop.

If you make less sprints per game and do so for a period of 2 years, its no wonder when it comes a time he needs to start giving more effort (WC knockout stages) he is gassed because his body isnt used to it any more.

Perhaps he has further problems, which are linked to the vomiting, who knows really. Either way it makes for a difficult situation.

Messi would not make trouble, no. But he would find his way to make it known it isnt happy. Some have suggested his performances last season in the final games was that off someone who was sulking because he was played on the right side rather than his preferred false 9 position.

Trying to figure out Messi's psyche is a difficult one we probably would purely be speculating about at this point. So I wont try to.

The Franchise wrote:Maybe Messi is the best player of all time, maybe he is, maybe he isnt. Different people will say different things.

Winning this WC, I think even more people would say he is.

But for me, winning it or losing it, it made no difference to me. As I said, he might be the best of all time...but in this tournament, today in 2014...his level isnt the best of all time. I am not even convinced he is the best in the game right now.

I think thats important. Too many ppl would be so definitive about eg. winning a WC or not in order to assess just how good they consider a player to be. Thats just being too simplistic and superficial, since there are too many factors in goes into 'winning a WC' Lol! The margins can be so small in such a game as we see. So just imagine if that Palacio shot went in or Gotze missed and then Argentina wins it on the PKs, then Messi is a better player than he has been?

Oh well, unfortunately thats just how a lot of ppl think and the world perceive things

As for being the best right now, probably right to say. He was the best for about 5 years straight, which was amazing and pure joy to watch, and an incredible achievement it itself in such a competitive sport. Its probably clear now other players will turn over that crown very soon.

http://d1p3t35jiqtse7.cloudfront.net/content/uploads/2014/07/Messi-muscle.jpg

Has to be the biggest load of shit I've ever read, concludes Brau

Had a pretty good game against us tbh. The criticism seems over the top. Unless you want to criticize that he didn't do a Maradona 86, pick up the ball and dribble the entire pitch. http://vimeo.com/100802306

Skinned Hummels on more than 1 occasion. Could've converted his 1 chance but that's about it. I think people undererstimate how much of a difference it makes to be playing in a defensive Argentina side that cedes possession with Higuain and Lavezzi to link up with and an all-out attacking 70 % possession Barcelona side with Xavi, Iniesta, Alves, Villa, Henry, Eto'o, Nerman etc. to link up with where he receives the ball around the edge of the box non-stop. He got twice as many touches in Barca's last CL final in 90 minutes than he did in 120 minutes in the WC final. And he got them higher up the pitch for Barca whereas he was picking up the ball around the halfway line for Argentina. Would've probably won the WC with a fit Di Maria and equal amount of rest as Germany instead of 1 day less after playing ET seeing how close the game went. I'm not that worried about him anymore. Can improve his fitness though. Lucho got this.

here you see the best Goalkeeper and the best player of this WC.
To his right: Messi.

Zizou wrote:

here you see the best Goalkeeper and the best player of this WC.
To his right: Messi.

Neuer should have been sent off...

windkick wrote:Has to be the biggest load of shit I've ever read, concludes Brau

Biggest load of shit or not Brau is Messi's personal physio so that's the advice he is getting

We might have evidence from Messi's personal physician himself, but the ridiculous witch hunt against Messi will never stop on this forum.

windkick wrote:Has to be the biggest load of shit I've ever read, concludes Brau

This

You either have fast twitch I or II (medical term is IIx or IIa respectively), or slow twitch fibers. and theres no way a footballer has fast twitch Is, after years of training. only olympic lifters have those and sometimes 100m sprinters.

messi doesnt have a magical fast twitch fiber no one has.

This Messi was best player ever for me. Such a tireless crazy player he was

When is this documentary of his coming out?

Reading through this thread, you'd think Barca fans would defend Messi at every opportunity, but instead it seems you constantly find reasons to criticize him. He's not as good as he was in 2012, sure, but saying he should be dropped or sold is comical