Yeah but Overall surely means you're taking the past into account

It's all nice and well having a great history, but history doesn't help you on the pitch in the present

Ajax have a much better European history than Arsenal for example, but most people would back Arsenal every time against Ajax.

Not just history, but the resources the clubs have available, how powerful they are currently etc as well.

Yohan Modric wrote:Not just history, but the resources the clubs have available, how powerful they are currently etc as well.

Again why does that matter ? You still got owned by Dortmund despite having 10x more resources than them not once but twice and they even knocked you out.Can we have a clearer head to head comparison than this ? We're not even discussing a one off game ,you just got totally smoked.end off.

And its not like Dortmund havent strengthened this year.They have brought some really good players and have even increased their depth.

Exactly, all that matters is how good you do on the pitch, that's how you define strength


Money, resources etc are all just means of improving your team so you can do better on the pitch

I don't care if team B has a multi-billonaire owner who spends £300M every season, if team A beat them 3 times in a year, then team A are stronger. Period.

What do you mean by overall anyways if the team is better in that season? If they beat you last season, which is the most recent one of course, they're better that's it
Like its said before time and time again, they didn't beat you once but 3 times and one of them was a 4 nil drubbing after they played you twice already so it was hardly a surprise

Surag wrote:

Yohan Modric wrote:Not just history, but the resources the clubs have available, how powerful they are currently etc as well.

Again why does that matter ? You still got owned by Dortmund despite having 10x more resources than them not once but twice and they even knocked you out.Can we have a clearer head to head comparison than this ? We're not even discussing a one off game ,you just got totally smoked.end off.

And its not like Dortmund havent strengthened this year.They have brought some really good players and have even increased their depth.

I'm not saying Dortmund weren't better last season. They were better than us last season and were the better team for 3 of those games.

However I was just comparing that there could be two ways teams can be ranked.

im not understanding how some says barca are better than us, and we whoop them last season, but bvb are better for that same reason, or maybe its because barca they won the league they get the edge?

Anyway for last season without the transfers it's:

Tier 1: Bayern
Tier 2: Dortmund
Tier 2.5: Barca, Real Madrid, Man Utd, Juventus.



With the transfers/new managers it can be different because teams could no longer play the same way, there's different players etc etc.

German Supercup: Dortmund 4:2 Bayern

Well, well. So much for Dortmund are on the way down again...

Yohan Modric wrote:Anyway for last season without the transfers it's:

Tier 1: Bayern
Tier 2: Dortmund
Tier 2.5: Barca, Real Madrid, Man Utd, Juventus.



With the transfers/new managers it can be different because teams could no longer play the same way, there's different players etc etc.

That's why the aim of this thread is to make an intelligent pre-season prediction after the transfers for the sake of the unsure betting public. Dortmund's performance in the friendly against Bayern which just finished proves it has made it's purchases well

rwo power wrote:German Supercup: Dortmund 4:2 Bayern

Well, well. So much for Dortmund are on the way down again...

All that proves is that Madrid are the best.

redsnoopy wrote:Dortmund's performance in the friendly against Bayern which just finished proves it has made it's purchases well

This was the German Supercup and no friendly.

RWO


BvB 1 season wonders if some people are to be believed

Yea, I don't mind putting Dortmund in the top tier ahead of us. They are up there with Juventus for the best coached team in Europe, and I think they actually improved substantially in the transfer window despite the loss of Goetze. I don't think they were better last season, and we were somewhat victims of circumstance and Mourinhio, but it is what it is.

I disagre, with the notion that regardless of transfers and changes - each team must be ranked exactly where they left off last season. I'll use some extreme cases to illustrate that, Malaga will be nowhere near as good, Chelsea will likely be much better.

There's no harm in factoring in changes.

Well Le Sam you are correct i should word my posts better sometimes.

Mainly what i was saying that in the main as it stands we can't really say because of some signings someone is better than someone else.

We will only know that when the time comes during the season.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1. Bayern
2. Dortmund
3. Juventus
4. Madrid
5. Barca

Bayern were definitely the strongest team in the world last season and have only improved since then. Dortmind are a close second still. Juventus have improved what was our biggest weakness last season by buying two amazing forwards and still holding onto Vucinic. Madrid have improved on last season but I still think they're inferior to the other 3. And until Barca fix their defensively problems they wont go any higher than 5th.