Re: The Official Summer Transfer Rumours Thread

[Jay29]

He can be a good player, but if we sign him for all we know he could flop in his second season. For example, remember when Roque Santa Cruz was looking so great for Blackburn a few seasons back, then he moved to Man City and flopped? Demba Ba has also found it more difficult at Chelsea, for example, and he was not a 1 season wonder. It's a totally different scenario playing for a top team with a different style, more expectations to deal with, and more attention paid to you by other players. Some players can thrive when they move to top teams, but we don't know which type of player Benteke will be.

You could argue the same with any potential signing. For all we know, Jovetic could prove to be a massive flop in the Premier League, or David Villa could struggle with the physicality, or Adler could make Fabianski proud with some epic flaps at corners... you can go on and on. Fact is, how well a player will do for a new team and in a new environment is a difficult thing to judge and if you start using it as a reason not to sign someone, you won't buy anyone.

Even a player's track record can be deceptive. Players with good goal returns can go on to get excellent goal returns (van Persie, Suarez), while players who did well last year have struggled this year (Aguero). Some can come out of completely no where (Michu). Track record, how they adapt to certain systems, how they cope with pressure, etc. are things that can only be truly judged when a player actually plays for your team.

In the end, you buy players that best suit your team and your ambition. In this sense, Villa and Jovetic would, indeed, be better than Benteke. But at the same time, you can't dismiss Benteke as a potential choice.

What we all want is someone we are all very confident in so that we can be sure we'll have a strong squad next year and possibly fight for a title. If we want to get Benteke then alright but the truth is we're only going to be signing 1 striker tops and Aston Villa will want a lot of money for him, and for this money we might be able to afford a more reknowned striker - not a Cavani, but perhaps a David Villa or a Jovetic, who while perhaps overrated on here, has been known to be a good player for more than 1 season. I like Benteke but he seems like a bit more of a gamble than some of the others we have been linked to and right now most of us are fed up with gamble signings.

Every signing is a gamble for the reasons I've already pointed out. In any case, we're not really considering price when discussing Benteke as a potential transfer target since we've no idea what Villa would want for him.

[AnJl]

I dont Villa at Arsenal. Not because he isnt an amazing striker, but because we are talking about a guy who is 31 years old and has come back from 2 (?) serious injuries.

I would rather take my chance with Jovetic.

[Chumlum]

The Wenger/PSG story are gathering momentum. I don't believe he'll leave this summer, but at the same time it's hard not to feel like there's at least some substance.

Wenger-skeptics may want to pause for a second to consider why a club with enormous resources is so actively pursuing AW, if AW is such crap and lacks ambition.

[Raptorgunner]

Sao Paulo still keen to make Denilson's loan move from Arsenal permanent

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8682175/

[Chumlum]

Sao Paulo still keen to make Denilson's loan move from Arsenal permanent

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11670/8682175/

That would be glorious. I thought only a month or two ago there was a story where they said exactly the opposite though?

Imagine offloading a bunch of the on-loan deadwood finally this summer.

[RealGunner]

Wenger has no plans to leave Arsenal as club line up formal contract talks

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2013/04/30/3943710/wenger-has-no-plans-to-leave-arsenal-as-club-line-up-formal

[Raptorgunner]

Wenger has no plans to leave Arsenal as club line up formal contract talks

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/transfer-zone/2013/04/30/3943710/wenger-has-no-plans-to-leave-arsenal-as-club-line-up-formal

If he is staying we must push for EPL, I think it will be a lot harder to win it next year, City, Man u and Chelsea will strength their team.
I dont care how old Villa is I know he can help us.

[Eman]

You could argue the same with any potential signing. For all we know, Jovetic could prove to be a massive flop in the Premier League, or David Villa could struggle with the physicality, or Adler could make Fabianski proud with some epic flaps at corners... you can go on and on. Fact is, how well a player will do for a new team and in a new environment is a difficult thing to judge and if you start using it as a reason not to sign someone, you won't buy anyone.

Even a player's track record can be deceptive. Players with good goal returns can go on to get excellent goal returns (van Persie, Suarez), while players who did well last year have struggled this year (Aguero). Some can come out of completely no where (Michu). Track record, how they adapt to certain systems, how they cope with pressure, etc. are things that can only be truly judged when a player actually plays for your team.

In the end, you buy players that best suit your team and your ambition. In this sense, Villa and Jovetic would, indeed, be better than Benteke. But at the same time, you can't dismiss Benteke as a potential choice.

I see what you're saying, but my main point was that Jovetic and Villa have been considered class for several years for teams that are objectively better than Aston Villa. It would be less of a jump in overall quality of the team for them to make versus Benteke, although into a different league, and both of them just look like they have a level of class above what Benteke currently has IMO, even though Benteke has been prolific this year. I do not consider them as big of a risk as Benteke all else equal for that reason.

Also, they are more versatile players and can play along the front line so they would give us more options, and they are different types of players to Giroud so we won't always be using the same type of player up front with the only difference being which one is in better form. If Benteke doesn't prove to be better than Giroud, he won't play; if the other two do not, they will still be able to benefit us in other positions offensively and against different types of teams as a striker.

Every signing is a gamble for the reasons I've already pointed out. In any case, we're not really considering price when discussing Benteke as a potential transfer target since we've no idea what Villa would want for him.

We don't know, but surely there will be interest this summer so we aren't likely to get him cheap. I would expect that more clubs will be in for him than Villa or Jovetic purely because he plays for a lesser team and clubs will likely believe that they have a better shot at signing him versus a big name like the other two, so we may have to outbid more teams as well. If we got him cheap then I'd be more than happy with that, but I doubt we would be able to.

[furiouswindbottom]

Giroud's hold up play is blatantly better than Benteke's.

Giroud's always been one to shoot more often anyway (averages around 7.4 shots per goal)

It's not about straight statistics though, like you tried to make it seem by only comparing their PL goals since stats don't tell half of the story but if you're going to only look at that aspect then it's only fair you draw it all out into the light.

Giroud All Competitions: 17 goals & 12 Assists in 3,194 minutes meaning he contributes to a goal every 110 minutes.

Benteke All competitions:23 goals & 7 Assists in 3,421 minutes meaning he contributes to a goal every 114 minutes.

Got to massively disagree. Sorry.

Benteke rapes Giroud on hold up play. I'm fortunate enough to get every PL game live. I've seen quite a bit of Villa in the process. He's brilliant at hold up play.

As for the stats...you're forgetting one minor point.

Giroud plays CF for Arsenal.
Benteke plays for a struggling side.

Giroud gets more chances than Benteke.

In fact, Benteke has scored a few when he's had no chance!

Despite this, I'm not sure I want him anyway. he would be an improvement in my opinion but I would prefer a classy CF.

Like Van Persie (oh we sold him).

Or Lewandowski. Three big names on the market this summer in Falcao, Cavani and Lewandowski.

At least try and get one of them. A long shot, but if we get no joy..

..we may have to settle for Benteke.

[Sina]

not sure if even needed but still [@Lagvilava7]

[Sina]

[Chumlum]

Of all the possible signings to make in positions where we don't really need a new signing, regaining Fabregas would by far excite me the most.

All would be forgiven, he'd be welcome, he'd be a fighter for the cause. Anyone who feels bad about how he left Arsenal just needs to remember how hard he fought for the club when he actually was there, and then compare it to the options now.

Sadly I don't think we'll get him back ... or if we do, it won't be for a few more years.

[Raptorgunner]

Of all the possible signings to make in positions where we don't really need a new signing, regaining Fabregas would by far excite me the most.

All would be forgiven, he'd be welcome, he'd be a fighter for the cause. Anyone who feels bad about how he left Arsenal just needs to remember how hard he fought for the club when he actually was there, and then compare it to the options now.

Sadly I don't think we'll get him back ... or if we do, it won't be for a few more years.

I know I may be alone on this but there isn't a player at Arsenal I would not give up for Cesc.

[GenBlizkin]

Rosicky Would be one and the other would be Wilshere.

[Artilleristen]

Rosicky Would be one and the other would be Wilshere.

Cesc is better than both have, or will ever be.

[sportsczy]

Cesc is a shadow of what he was at Arsenal. With Cazorla at the gunners, i don't see why getting Cesc is a priority. For that money, get someone that's needed ffs.

[Raptorgunner]

Cesc is a shadow of what he was at Arsenal. With Cazorla at the gunners, i don't see why getting Cesc is a priority. For that money, get someone that's needed ffs.

I still take him back with open Arms.

[Raptorgunner]

Arteta: "The difference between ManUtd with #Arsenal & the rests is that they have 4 top strikers. We gotta improve that area next season".

Wenger.

[Wilson37]

Of all the possible signings to make in positions where we don't really need a new signing, regaining Fabregas would by far excite me the most.

All would be forgiven, he'd be welcome, he'd be a fighter for the cause. Anyone who feels bad about how he left Arsenal just needs to remember how hard he fought for the club when he actually was there, and then compare it to the options now.

Sadly I don't think we'll get him back ... or if we do, it won't be for a few more years.

I know I may be alone on this but there isn't a player at Arsenal I would not give up for Cesc.

u r not alone.. if he is available, he is the first choice for me, ahead of Jovetic, Adler or anyone.. just because he is a wc player and we dont have any, regardless of the striker/dm signings.. and if we show interest he will definitely come back to us..

Cesc is a shadow of what he was at Arsenal. With Cazorla at the gunners, i don't see why getting Cesc is a priority. For that money, get someone that's needed ffs.

i think that has more to do with the role he is playing at Barca.. He is an AM and he is made to play as false 9 and wide forward roles as substitute for Messi and others.. still he shows his quality.. he still has his best years in front of him..
and comparison with Cazorla is really funny.. Cazorla is nowhere near Cesc quality.. have u seen Cesc go silent against quality defence.. Cazorla is not good enough to play as CAM.. and not very good either in the wings.. i cant find a position for him atm.. nothing more than a very good squad player.. Rosicky is good at CAM but he is 32 and injury prone.. Wilshere has not yet proven as a AM.. we are struggling to create chances against many teams.. lets sign Cesc and go back to the days of beautiful football when Arsenal used to create chances in loads...

[Chumlum]

Cazorla ... nothing more than a very good squad player

[Raptorgunner]

Of all the possible signings to make in positions where we don't really need a new signing, regaining Fabregas would by far excite me the most.

All would be forgiven, he'd be welcome, he'd be a fighter for the cause. Anyone who feels bad about how he left Arsenal just needs to remember how hard he fought for the club when he actually was there, and then compare it to the options now.

Sadly I don't think we'll get him back ... or if we do, it won't be for a few more years.

I know I may be alone on this but there isn't a player at Arsenal I would not give up for Cesc.

u r not alone.. if he is available, he is the first choice for me, ahead of Jovetic, Adler or anyone.. just because he is a wc player and we dont have any, regardless of the striker/dm signings.. and if we show interest he will definitely come back to us..

Cesc is a shadow of what he was at Arsenal. With Cazorla at the gunners, i don't see why getting Cesc is a priority. For that money, get someone that's needed ffs.

i think that has more to do with the role he is playing at Barca.. He is an AM and he is made to play as false 9 and wide forward roles as substitute for Messi and others.. still he shows his quality.. he still has his best years in front of him..
and comparison with Cazorla is really funny.. Cazorla is nowhere near Cesc quality.. have u seen Cesc go silent against quality defence.. Cazorla is not good enough to play as CAM.. and not very good either in the wings.. i cant find a position for him atm.. nothing more than a very good squad player.. Rosicky is good at CAM but he is 32 and injury prone.. Wilshere has not yet proven as a AM.. we are struggling to create chances against many teams.. lets sign Cesc and go back to the days of beautiful football when Arsenal used to create chances in loads...

Very well said Wilson, just imagine the goals Giroud, Theo and Podolski will score with Cesc setting them up.

Bring Cesc back at any coast.

[Wilson37]

Cazorla ... nothing more than a very good squad player

yes.. i am really confused.. he did well at CAM for some matches and is totally anonymous in others.. same thing at LW too, but it is making us play very narrow and all teams are now packing the centre and nullyfying our threat.. no idea as to what his position should be at Arsenal..?

[Jay29]

Cazorla ... nothing more than a very good squad player

Very strange comment about the best player in the Arsenal squad right now, ability-wise, and someone with 12 Premier League goals in his first season, and someone who probably creates more chances than anyone...

Anyway, while our hearts say "yes" to Cesc coming back, it's not a logical move for us right now. We don't need Cesc, in that his position his covered by Cazorla, Rosicky and Wilshere (not to mention Gnabry and Zelalem). Yes, he's better than all those players, but he'd take a lot out of our budget, which needs to be used wisely to strengthen the weak areas in the team i.e. defensive midfield and centre forward.

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Why spend money on Cesc when you could spend money on a DM, CF and winger for the same amount and strengthen 3 major weak spots in the process instead of strengthening an already strong area?

Got to think properly and not let your heart rule your head sometimes.

[Wilson37]

Cazorla ... nothing more than a very good squad player

Very strange comment about the best player in the Arsenal squad right now, ability-wise, and someone with 12 Premier League goals in his first season, and someone who probably creates more chances than anyone...

Anyway, while our hearts say "yes" to Cesc coming back, it's not a logical move for us right now. We don't need Cesc, in that his position his covered by Cazorla, Rosicky and Wilshere (not to mention Gnabry and Zelalem). Yes, he's better than all those players, but he'd take a lot out of our budget, which needs to be used wisely to strengthen the weak areas in the team i.e. defensive midfield and centre forward.

assuming that we will continue playing that 4-2-3-1, we need that most influential CAM.. Rosicky is good but needs to be more prolific with his chance creation and efforts, and his age and injury problems is a concern.. Wilshere haas the potential but is still far.. i dont think Cazorla will succeed there.. a top quality AM is also needed, more than the striker, if we need to play 4-2-3-1..
and btw, what should be the position of Cazorla.. Wide midfielder or false winger or CAM ?

[Jay29]

Cazorla IS a top quality AM and has already succeeded there. If there's any problem with the position, it's to do with the balance of the midfield and not the quality of the player who's playing there.

You'd be hard pressed to find an AM that doesn't have games where he has little effect. It's just the nature of the position. Like most playmakers, they need space to operate and while Cazorla can make space by himself, he needs help from his teammates. One of our problems this season was that there was nobody else in the team who could create chances and take the burden off Cazorla. Teams could crowd around him without having to worry about somebody else popping up in the left over space and playing a killer pass.

But when Rosicky and Wilshere came back, Cazorla's form improved. Those two can take players away, subsequently making space, with their dribbling and directness. It's for that same reason that Arteta-Diaby-Cazorla was such a success at the start of the season.

The problem is that Arteta-Wilshere-Cazorla or Arteta-Rosicky-Cazorla leaves you with little cover defensively, so Wenger had to find a way to get Wilshere or Rosicky into the side along with Cazorla without sacrificing too much balance. This is why Ramsey is now playing alongside Arteta in a pivot and why Cazorla is now on the left.

That change creates the problem of our play becoming too narrow, but again, this is not Cazorla's fault exclusively. While there are times he should maybe keep the width on the left, it's the duty of the left fullback to run into the space Cazorla leaves when he drifts, and it's up to the right winger to realise that he cannot also move inside if Cazorla is already there.

Incidentally, you wouldn't get the same versatility with Cesc. Cesc thrived on being the centre of the system and being able to do what he wants, but our midfields with him in the side have always been a little unbalanced because Wilshere and Song would always go forward. We won games because of superior attacking quality but had several problems dealing with counter attacks.

Comparatively, this current Arsenal side is winning more games because of good defending and isn't as vulnerable to counter attacks, but is lacking the same penetration. While this is partly down to the quality and consistency of our attackers, it's also down to a lack of pressing and lack of intelligence when using available space i.e. Walcott always coming inside when the space isn't there.

tl;dr: The problems come from how we attack and create space, not from the positions and players themselves.

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