Yohan Modric wrote:Robben, Muller, Ribery and Gomez/Pizarro is still a strong attack. However obviously Kroos in midfield would have made a difference for Bayern. Whenever I see Muller, he doesn't really offer much, however still gets the job done.

Anyway did Bayern appeal for Mandzukic's yellow card?

Pretty sure you cant do that.

Mandzukic ain't playing.

Not having Kroos hurts but not as much as you'd think... but what would have that accomplished? Kroos, 4-3-3 or not, we're never going to have as much possession as Barca. Müller's directness and mainly his off the ball game will be a key asset considering Barcelona's mehtastic defense. The aim here won't be to hold the ball as with most opposition (not possible against Vagi and co.), but to quickly fire up the engines whenever Barcelona do lose the ball.

We have the physical advantage, so set pieces are also key here.

Hopefully Robben has a good game and Valdes a very shitty one. Neuer's long balls can be deadly, so you also have to watch out for that.

But there's no way Bayern will dominate as many people think. This is a tight ass game, guys.

Im not saying they wouldve necessarily won the possession game if Kroos was there, but it certainly wouldve helped with the possession game for Bayern. Muller, as you said though, helps in other ways, such as his ability to ghost behind defensive lines and score out of nothing. He also works very hard so defensively it wont be much of a loss losing Kroos. Robben has also been.excellent lately, so it wouldve been hard to pick the right lineup for Heynckes, but with Kroos out that problem solved itself. This is gonna ne an extrenely tight game. These two have been the two best teams in the world for a while now, and its great that we finally get to see them face off. In my.opinion Bayern has the edge, and will go through.

Also, about the defense comment, when you score between 6-9 goals per game, you lose concentration and might let one in. And thats what has happenned with Bayern. When they were pnly one goal up though against Ftankfurt i believe it was, they were more concentrated, not slacking, and didnt let one in. Bayerns defense has conceded the least amount of goals in the Top 4 leagues in Europe. As a Juve fan i still believe we have the best defense in the world, but Bayern are definitely up there. Barca has a good defense too, bit i dont think its elite.

When you've already won the league, put out the B team and are up 6 goals... yeah, it's understandable if you can become complacent.

Bayern's defense manwise may not be up there with the best (and this is only at CB, out fullbacks are great), but as a cohesive unit it works extremely well. Also, Dante is world class.

Someone here mentioned that Bayern have conceded 10 goals in the CL so far, the same as Barca!!

If true, that gives me great hope.

Dante's world class like Varane...

LOL @ Dante being WC. We will see what he does when he faces Messi. I suppose van Buyten is WC as well

gondov wrote:Someone here mentioned that Bayern have conceded 10 goals in the CL so far, the same as Barca!!

If true, that gives me great hope.

Well, the goals that Bayern conceded were

- 1 in the 2:1 against Valencia, where Valencia scored in the 90+1st minute when the Bayern players already were under the shower in their minds as they already won the match 2:0.
- 3 against BATE when the whole Bayern team had a veritable off-day and the 3rd of the BATE goals happened on the break in the 90+4th minute, when Bayern threw everybody and their cats forward to maybe score the equalizer.
- 1 in the 6:1 against Lille - the consolation goal by Lille was scored in the 2nd half when Bayern were already 5:0 up in the first half.
- 1 in the 1:1 against Valencia - this was one of the few goals which were really worrysome as it didn't happen when Bayern was already up & away.
- 1 in the 4:1 against BATE - this happened in the 89th minute after Bayern was already 4:0 up and the players already pondered when the ref would call it a game.
- 1 in the 1:3 against Arsenal - okay, this was a goal that really counted as it was a goal that might have brought Arsenal back into the game.
- 2 in the 0:2 against Arsenal where Bayern were much to complacent and careless

So you might say that Bayern got 6 relevant goals against as 4 of the 10 goals they got were when they sort of already stopped playing.

And mind you, in the relevant QF matches against Juve, Bayern kept two clean sheets as for once they concentrated from the first to the last minute.

So in short, Bayern have conceded 10 goals in the CL.

But none in the two matches against the most current and supposedly most difficult opponent so far

gondov wrote:
Someone here mentioned that Bayern have conceded 10 goals in the CL so far, the same as Barca!!

If true, that gives me great hope.

I had already pointed out the huge disparity between Bayern's defensive record in the Bundesliga and in the CL at the beginning of the season. rwo might remember our little discussion. Here are the statistics again:

Bayern defense in the Bundesliga under Heynckes: 0.56 goals conceded per game.
Bayern defense in the CL under Heynckes: 0.91 goals conceded per game.

While you can expect a little higher ratio in the CL due to the higher quality of the opposition on average (especially in knockout rounds), the difference with other top teams isn't that huge. Let's take Barca in the same time frame:

Barca defense in La Liga: 0.89 goals conceded per game.
Barca defense in CL: 0.91 goals conceded per game.

Bayern's Bundesliga form isn't reflecting their true abilities at all. Hannover losing 1-6 in the Allianz Arena against a full strength Bayern team I can understand. But losing 1-6 in their own backyard against a Bayern B team consisting of Pizarro, Tymoshchuk, Gustavo, Rafinha, van Buyten and Boateng? As a respectable midtable team which aims for Europa League places? Bayern have conceded 3 goals away from home all season in the Bundesliga. Barcelona have conceded 22. What do we make of this?

rwo power wrote:But none in the two matches against the most current and supposedly most difficult opponent so far

But,



They've conceded 10 in the CL.

futbol wrote:

gondov wrote:
Someone here mentioned that Bayern have conceded 10 goals in the CL so far, the same as Barca!!

If true, that gives me great hope.

I had already pointed out the huge disparity between Bayern's defensive record in the Bundesliga and in the CL at the beginning of the season. rwo might remember our little discussion. Here are the statistics again:

Bayern defense in the Bundesliga under Heynckes: 0.56 goals conceded per game.
Bayern defense in the CL under Heynckes: 0.91 goals conceded per game.

While you can expect a little higher ratio in the CL due to the higher quality of the opposition on average (especially in knockout rounds), the difference with other top teams isn't that huge. Let's take Barca in the same time frame:

Barca defense in La Liga: 0.89 goals conceded per game.
Barca defense in CL: 0.91 goals conceded per game.

Bayern's Bundesliga form isn't reflecting their true abilities at all. Hannover losing 1-6 in the Allianz Arena against a full strength Bayern team I can understand. But losing 1-6 in their own backyard against a Bayern B team consisting of Pizarro, Tymoshchuk, Gustavo, Rafinha, van Buyten and Boateng? As a respectable midtable team which aims for Europa League places? Bayern have conceded 3 goals away from home all season in the Bundesliga. Barcelona have conceded 22. What do we make of this?

Jupp Heynckes (Trainer Bayern München): "Die Spieler haben wieder bewiesen, dass wir keine B-Mannschaft haben sondern nur eine A-Mannschaft. Man hat gesehen, dass die Spieler einfach Spaß haben am Fußball spielen. Alle Spieler, die von Anfang an gespielt haben, waren motiviert. Es ist das Positive, dass wir einen unheimlich guten Spielerkader haben. Das macht es aus, dass wir dieses Jahr so dominant sind."

Jupp Heynckes (Bayern Munich coach): "The players have proven time and again that we have no B team but only an A Team You could see that the players have fun playing football at all players who from the beginning.. played were motivated., it is the positives that we have an incredibly good player squad., making it out that we are so dominant this year. "

So a goal in the 90th minute when youre up by 3+ goals is the same as when its 0-0 or an even game of some sort.

Now ive heard it all.

No B team my azz.

I dare him to play all those guys against us.

juventus101 wrote:So a goal in the 90th minute when youre up by 3+ goals is the same as when its 0-0 or an even game of some sort.

Now ive heard it all.

Oh I see, so those goals don't count?

I could give 2 fcks when they went in, they went in.

Well, if Bayern get a goal in versus Barca when they are 4 goals up, I certainly won't mind. If they get one in while they haven't scored, then I'd worry.

izzy wrote:Oh I see, so those goals don't count?

I could give 2 fcks when they went in, they went in.

It only counts when Bayern (or Germany) are trying.

Must say, this is one of those few times I wish both team loses.

rwo power wrote:

gondov wrote:Someone here mentioned that Bayern have conceded 10 goals in the CL so far, the same as Barca!!

If true, that gives me great hope.

Well, the goals that Bayern conceded were

- 1 in the 2:1 against Valencia, where Valencia scored in the 90+1st minute when the Bayern players already were under the shower in their minds as they already won the match 2:0.
- 3 against BATE when the whole Bayern team had a veritable off-day and the 3rd of the BATE goals happened on the break in the 90+4th minute, when Bayern threw everybody and their cats forward to maybe score the equalizer.
- 1 in the 6:1 against Lille - the consolation goal by Lille was scored in the 2nd half when Bayern were already 5:0 up in the first half.
- 1 in the 1:1 against Valencia - this was one of the few goals which were really worrysome as it didn't happen when Bayern was already up & away.
- 1 in the 4:1 against BATE - this happened in the 89th minute after Bayern was already 4:0 up and the players already pondered when the ref would call it a game.
- 1 in the 1:3 against Arsenal - okay, this was a goal that really counted as it was a goal that might have brought Arsenal back into the game.
- 2 in the 0:2 against Arsenal where Bayern were much to complacent and careless

So you might say that Bayern got 6 relevant goals against as 4 of the 10 goals they got were when they sort of already stopped playing.

And mind you, in the relevant QF matches against Juve, Bayern kept two clean sheets as for once they concentrated from the first to the last minute.

most funny logic ever heard.....
giving an explanation of how they conceded all unimportant goals....
who cares what you mind or not, when they were in certainly the defenders and the keeper was not just watching....
So why Bayern do not concede that kind of goals in bundesliga, i mean in 90 plus minutes when they are tons of goals up.....
anyway for me Bayern is a real threat and after (if they can) beat us in the semi i would accept them as strongest. Beating Barca and Madrid in semis for two consecutive years when both the team boasting the best players in the world is certainly a job done enough. So i am really waiting eagerly to see how they play.

neuro11 wrote:So why Bayern do not concede that kind of goals in bundesliga, i mean in 90 plus minutes when they are tons of goals up.....

Actually they do. If you look at the goals they got against in the Bundesliga, they mainly happened right in such circumstances (checking only 2013):

- Yesterday they were already 5:0 up against Hannover when the 5:1 happened in the 84th minute due to a loss of concentration by Manuel Neuer
- In the 9:2 against Hamburg, they were 8:0 up until they got two goals in in the 75th and 76th minute
- In the 6:1 against Bremen they got one in at the 58th minute, when they were already 4:0 up.

Here the goals against Leverkusen (1) and Düsseldorf (2) were the most worrisome as they happened at times when the opponent might have come back.

So you could say Bayern *are* pretty scary when they take a match seriously.

Telling people conceded goals are irrelevant because your winning That has the be the most stupid thing I have ever heard. It still means you are conceding goals.

Collblanc wrote:Telling people conceded goals are irrelevant because your winning That has the be the most stupid thing I have ever heard. It still means you are conceding goals.

Naw, you see it wrong. In that case it just means the team is winning anyway and by a huge margin.

So you still conceded goals, right?

Collblanc wrote:So you still conceded goals, right?

Bayern conceded still much less than any other club in the top 5 leagues (14 domestic, 10 in the CL, 1 in the Cup). You really expect them to not concede at all?

To compare: Barca: 33 domestic, 10 in the CL, 9 in the Cup.

rwo power wrote:

Collblanc wrote:So you still conceded goals, right?

Bayern conceded still much less than any other club in the top 5 leagues (14 domestic, 10 in the CL, 1 in the Cup). You really expect them to not concede at all?

To compare: Barca: 33 domestic, 10 in the CL, 9 in the Cup.

That says more about the Bundesliga than it does about Bayern.

there we go again..