Well after reading the last 2 pages of the thread, it seams a bit more sense has been made of what actually happened during the match.

I think the biggest, glaring issue is of course the Juventus strikers. The evidence is clear as day and is highlighted by a player like Mandzukic. The guy was able to do the task he was instructed to do, while the juve players were unable to. The difference is quality. The juventus strikers that played yesterday didn't have enough of it, and were subsequently unable to do anything else, because, they lack the individual brilliance to do something outside of the tactical framework.

This tie is far from over though. Juventus are certainly not going to roll over and die in the second leg. Conte is a man manager and will no doubt get them ready to go and firing on all cylinders for the game in Torino. I feel like Pogba starting is going to be the X factor for us.

On the issue of the left back. Its not really a leftback that we play with, but more of a box to box left sided player. No brainer that Peluso can't hang with the big boys, and I think its pretty obvious that Asamoah would have been better. Isla playing on the wrong side could have probably done better as well. I do think that this is an area of concern for juventus. It is able to be covered up in Serie A because of the general lack of true wingers/wing play, but against a team like Bayern or United that utilizes the wings as the point of attack, our weakness on the left is spotlighted.

Im predicting a heartbreaker. 2-1 juventus win in Torino, losing the tie ultimately with the third goal from bayern coming late

AbraKebabra Alacalamb wrote:Let's not forget Llorente is coming in for free. And Vucinic would have started if he was fit.

Mandzukic would probably not have the same effect for Juve, not in the CL anyway. Mandzukic is an amazing team player, his constant harrasing brings other players into the game so they can score. As good as he is at playing that roll for the team, he's not that much of a goal threat in the CL. I don't think he looked like scoring in a game where our defence was being pounded with pressure.

Mandzukic can hold the ball up to help Ribery, Robben, Muller etc score goals. We don't have a lethal midfielder with that attacking quality to bring into the game. Which is why we need to fill the Del Piero gap as best as possible and have that replacement playing upfront with somebody who can keep the ball and finish his chances. That could very well be Llorente. As for the next TQ/ss we bring in I have no idea.

The situation does look very grim in that regard

The Nature Boy wrote:
On the issue of the left back. Its not really a leftback that we play with, but more of a box to box left sided player.

Couldn't help yourself could you?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

The Nature Boy wrote:
On the issue of the left back. Its not really a leftback that we play with, but more of a box to box left sided player.

Couldn't help yourself could you?

i love being specific

Arquitecto wrote:Strange from Beckenbaeur has he has praised Buffon in the past more than most Italian figures. Was it his disappointment in what he expects from him? Said in a humorous manner?

Here's the full quote:

Buffon's gaffes did not stay hidden from Franz Beckenbauer. The pundit complained at Sky about the performance of the 35-year old [keeper] in the break. That was around 120 metres - please don't be upset with me, but he should have saved that. That was old men's [football] by him. Normally he is an outstanding goalkeeper and I expect that he can play on for some more years, but something like this must not happen to him. 35 metres and the trajectory of the ball was only minimally c hanged by the deflection", the Kaiser judged.

Buffons Fehlgriffe blieben auch Franz Beckenbauer nicht verborgen. Der TV-Experte mokierte sich in der Halbzeitpause bei "Sky" über die Leistung des 35-Jährigen. "Das waren ja ungefähr 120 Meter – also seid mir nicht bös’, den muss er halten, das war ja Altherrenmanier von ihm. Er ist ja eigentlich ein hervorragender Torwart, und ich traue ihm schon zu, dass er noch ein paar Jahre weiterspielt. Aber das darf ihm nicht passieren – 35 Meter und der Ball verändert trotz des Abfälschens seine Flugbahn kaum", urteilte der Kaiser.

Source: http://www.t-online.de/sport/fussball/champions-league/id_62812334/franz-beckenbauer-watscht-juve-keeper-buffon-ab.html

I have a feeling it's Jovetic or bust. And I'm beginning to doubt Jovetic lately as a good option.

I really don't want sanchez. Every player dives but he takes it too far. He's a frustrating player we don't need.

If we can raise 20M from selling junk I see no reason why we don't slap on another 20M and test clubs resolve for players such as suarez.

At the end of the day saving money and snapping up bargains is great. But at this point in time our starting XI is very difficult to improve and the only improvements aren't going to come to us for cheap. We've done the best we can whilst holding back on the transfer fund. But if we want to take the final step then it's not going to be out there for free. Which I don't think our directors are willing to accept.

I think Llorente and Vucinic is pretty good while you wait patiently for something else to pop up.

I agree that Juve mostly use a "left sided box to box" player rather than an out and out winger or leftback. But having one in the squad I think is a must for times like yesturday.

You changed to a 442, but neither of the players on the left can actually play down the left.

agreed.

Sometimes to take the next step you need to take a risk. Id rather spend money to take a chance on improving the XI rather than being cheap and adding rotation talent.

Let it be known that I have fully supported Beppe Marotta.

The Franchise wrote:I think Llorente and Vucinic is pretty good while you wait patiently for something else to pop up.

I agree that Juve mostly use a "left sided box to box" player rather than an out and out winger or leftback. But having one in the squad I think is a must for times like yesturday.

You changed to a 442, but neither of the players on the left can actually play down the left.

Agreed about having one out and out winger/FB. NOT having one doesn't allow you to mix it up at all.

We shall see what happens regarding a Vucinic--Llorente partnership. Vucinic can play more of the SS role obviously. And I think yesterdays performances spell the end for one of, if not both of, Quagliarello and Matri

Juventus' annual turnover is just a little above 200m euros(This season Juve are going to likely post a loss as well overall).I would assume there are going to be a no.of contract renewals for the key players.Its going to be really tough to bring in Jovetic calibre player i would think let alone Suarez.I really dont think we are in a strong enough position to make a big signing right now(next season) and plus there's FFP just at the corner as well.

But imo there's no point discussing transfers now as everyone knows this team could've played way better i was let down by the team selection yesterday.(I mean starting Peluso in such a big game and perhaps Vucinic should've been risked here instead of the incompatible Matri-Quags partnership).

FFP does not concern me too much. We're on a club rich-list as the 10th richest club in the world (I can't remember what it's based on, but it's still impressive) And we're also rising in that list. I think it's unacceptable we're refusing to spend 30M on one striker as teams around us spent 15-30M on players all over the pitch. Once again we had no real attacking threat in a big game.

I'm not asking that we do a City or a PsG because that's both unneccesary and a bad business model. But spending big on ONE position and penny pinching on the rest seems fine to me.

I'm not moaning about us needing a striker just because of this game, this problem has been with us since 2008 and has followed us ever since.

Arquitecto wrote:Serie A terrible? Bhends I know Inter suck and all but that doesn't reflect on the league

This game doesnt reflect on the league,sure,but what he says in essence is very accurate.

I wouldn't say its terrible tbf, especially based on this performance.

I doubt many English teams would receive anything other than a defeat ( inb4 Arsenal which isn't relevant anyway)

The only teams who could knock Bayern out over 2 legs is Barca, Madrid and Dortmund and even then it would be very difficult and quite doubtful on current form.

Surag wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Serie A terrible? Bhends I know Inter suck and all but that doesn't reflect on the league

This game doesnt reflect on the league,sure,but what he says in essence is very accurate.

The essence of his statement is the same as always as Serie A is terrible etc etc. If you are part of the same group who says Serie A is in decline, then I have nothing to say aside from putting you in the blind contingent who is oblivious to the revolution of quality and tactics within the league. If Milan didn't choke to Barca and Juve actually had the balls to take them head on instead of Conte-gate, we wouldn't be speaking about this.

VivaSt.Pauli Wrote

1) "The early goal changed the game".
False.
Bayern continued pushing for that 2nd goal as much as they would have pushed for a 1st goal. They did not change their game plan. Conte obviously didn't have Juve change their plan either, so it really did not change anything, except for the result.

But it did change the game Viva. The whole premise of the plan that he used was not to concede early whilst taking any chances that can be created threw certain balls played to the CFs. If a goal is scored in this situation, the whole team is imbalanced mentally and tactically as it creates a sense of inertia in confusion to how the squad retain its discipline whilst getting back into the game for an away goal. It is why the concept of conceding an early goal when the objective is not to (Milan at Nou Camp) will disrupt the whole team. Where did Conte fail? That he chose to stick with his much criticized (in the past even) plan instead of resorting back to Juve's primary system, which would have seen wingback positions, pressing, and MVP actually doing their best role. So essentially it was exactly the plan that Bayern would want to play against, while Juve just set themselves up against a team who would thrive against this particular plan. It was an absolutely baffling choice from what is a manager who I rate very highly. Unlike Heynckes, Conte chose not do study Bayern continuously but rather focusing on the discipline of his own team, which is

The rest of your post? I don't think Ribery deserved to get sent off, I think Mandzu was good but isn't being used properly, Mueller was Mueller as he reminds me of Dirk Kuyt in his big game mentality. Offside call? It was clearly offside but no such complaints should be made as that would be just pedantic.

It wasn't a reflection of Juve by any means, but nonetheless Bayern deserve all the credit. Juventus simply don't have the experience for Europe in competing with a side that does and who have prepared for Europe for over three years.

Juve bringing back their original plan or not, they should be able to win in Juventus Arena.

After that great goal by Vidal, it seemed Juve spend 45 minutes having zero gameplan. "Shall we attack, defend, keep possession to calm down?" Nothing worked. Also, Peluso was getting raped on the left side, Matri gave the worst performance the world has ever seen from an attacker at this level, and Quagmire was also utterly helpless.

Vucinic and Giovinco on earlier? No, lets watch the horror-show for 65 minutes. Vucinic and Giovinco with better pace and technique could hold the ball and lift the team in attack.

Barzagli's first major fail with Juve. I also think Vidal was crap unlike some.

Bad luck to concede after less than 30 seconds from a deflection, but there was no plan B and it must be said that Conte really failed this time.

The hope is that Bayern will pull off another Arsenal, and head into the next leg relaxing more. Also that Juve cant put on another game as bad as this should be positive.

My "didn't change the game" comment was mostly a dig at Conte. He should have changed tactics the second after Juve conceded the goal, but didn't.

Surag wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Serie A terrible? Bhends I know Inter suck and all but that doesn't reflect on the league

This game doesnt reflect on the league,sure,but what he says in essence is very accurate.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:I wouldn't say its terrible tbf, especially based on this performance.

I doubt many English teams would receive anything other than a defeat ( inb4 Arsenal which isn't relevant anyway)

The only teams who could knock Bayern out over 2 legs is Barca, Madrid and Dortmund and even then it would be very difficult and quite doubtful on current form

The point is that Juves domination of Serie A means basically nothing in terms of expectations for this tie because no one Juve has to play in Serie A is even remotely close to Bayern

just calm down....The second leg will be different

LOL @ the sig.

Anyway IMO no one in England are either but its not a detriment on the league.

Bayern, Dortmund, Barca and Madrid are just a level above as far as i'm concerned and would beat anyone from England/Italy.

Maybe Juve and Man Yoo can beat them but that is it really.

People actually believe this Bayern style can beat Barcelona? Too similar and Barca is better at it. It will be goals galore I tell ya.

Jube is still the only hope for humanity against the alien Catalans

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:LOL @ the sig.

Anyway IMO no one in England are either but its not a detriment on the league.

Bayern, Dortmund, Barca and Madrid are just a level above as far as i'm concerned and would beat anyone from England/Italy.

Maybe Juve and Man Yoo can beat them but that is it really.

Delete Madrid from that list plz

Until Conte lets Juventus play with the style we've been working towards for over a year then this will keep happening.

Our players were perfect (Except upfront) at the high pressing game with Pirlo dictating play. But now we're asking a man in his mid-thirties whos strength is his vision and passing to play like a Ball winning CDM. We're buying sub standard left backs and asking them to hold out against 2 technically superior wide men.

I think next week we'll play like we normally do. And if we don't get whipped 2-0 or worse it will raise the question. "Why didn't we play the same way in the first leg? We might have gone through."

Who says they have to beat Barcelona? and they can yes.

Barca hate teams who attacks them with possession based football just as much as the teams who defend deep.

Watch the Barcelona games in the Guardiola era against Villarreal they hate playing against teams who can keep the ball from them.

poor COnte, looking like an amateur when he is actually a good tactician, but that's just the european learning process. He never played a game quite as big before, no one in his team actually, and it's normal for the shortcomings to creep up.

Juventus reminded me of Prandelli's Italy getting whooped sideways by Spain.

Madrid has played in the last two semi finals and last year only lost to PKs. say what you want, but we have world class pedigree and talent. We are not perfect but we are among the very best in europe. dispute that all you want but reality and facts speak otherwise lol.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Who says they have to beat Barcelona? and they can yes.

Barca hate teams who attacks them with possession based football just as much as the teams who defend deep.

Watch the Barcelona games in the Guardiola era against Villarreal they hate playing against teams who can keep the ball from them.

very true, if you force barca back in their own half, they cant get out with speed like other teams can. they are allergic to counter so making them defend like a traditional side make them nervous. I would say that Madrid have beaten them in the past with both possession and counters.

Arquitecto wrote:The essence of his statement is the same as always as Serie A is terrible etc etc. If you are part of the same group who says Serie A is in decline, then I have nothing to say aside from putting you in the blind contingent who is oblivious to the revolution of quality and tactics within the league. If Milan didn't choke to Barca and Juve actually had the balls to take them head on instead of Conte-gate, we wouldn't be speaking about this.

Serie A is improving but we also need to understand that other leagues are on a rapid rise.As much as it pains to me say it,money buys success,its the way it is.

You have the cash-rich PSG/Monaco in Ligue 1, Real/Barca with their 500m annual turnovers,Everybody in the EPL will get rich now with their new TV deal.Now to Serie A's disadvantage ,Bundesliga is on the rise and plus most of their teams are financially sustainable unlike Italian sides.Lack of financial resources + Plus rise of other leagues=decline of the quality in the league.On the youth front ? Serie A is still meh in that regard.It would even be difficult for Italy's best side to compete with these entities in the future.

Note that this post is not a knee-jerk reaction to yesterday's game it takes a lot more than 'tactics' or 'spirit' or whatever for the uprise of this league.It has been a general concern for me since many months as there may be a case we dominate fodder teams in the league and come up short against the big boys in the CL because there isnt much quality in the league or atleast up to standards.