EPL mid table teams are excellent, they don't need to change anything.

Top 5-6 DO need to improve though. They all have individual problems in one way or another.

Chelsea, City, Yanited, and Spurs all have one massive problem in common, though, IMHO: none of them have a proper link between attack and defense, no proper central playmaker in any of those teams. And I'm a big fan of those.

And all successful teams of recent (bar Chelseas freakshow UCL win) had one.
Inter had Sneijder, Real has Özil, Barca has Xaviesta, Bayern has Kroosteiger, Dortmund has Gündogötze (Sahigawa before that), and so on, and so on.

Yohan Modric wrote:Not all of those teams use possession.

Who said possession? They dont have any style.

What style of play to City play? I still dont know.

Sometimes counter attack, some times just super defensive, sometimes possession, sometimes pressing, sometimes dropping deep...they are all over the place and they aint alone.

VivaStPauli wrote:Chelsea, City, Yanited, and Spurs all have one massive problem in common, though, IMHO: none of them have a proper link between attack and defense, no proper central playmaker in any of those teams. And I'm a big fan of those.

And all successful teams of recent (bar Chelseas freakshow UCL win) had one.
Inter had Sneijder, Real has Özil, Barca has Xaviesta, Bayern has Kroosteiger, Dortmund has Gündogötze (Sahigawa before that), and so on, and so on.

Yeah but these guys are hard to find if you dont know what your doing, and I think some of them dont know what they are doing.

The English side when they were good never had them then either, but they accepted that inferiority and worked around it by having a defensive construct.

Chelsea last season for example, when they played with offensive intentions, they were routinely picked apart. Even in the Barca game, Chelsea were even in the tie for like a 10 minute spell in the second leg and Iniesta straight away broke through. When they went negative, they were much more effective.

True, and as long as they don't have those playmakers, those missing links, they should go negative, I agree with that part concerning tactics.

But they can also shop smart.

Spurs just bought Holtby, if he doesn't flop, that's just about the best possible buy for any of the top4 EPL sides.
Just like Yanited went in the right direction with Kagawa.

What about the defenders from EPL? Cahill/ Luiz / Ivanovic ? Nastasic / Lescott? Smalling / Jones? Even Rio and Vida have big problems with injuries... Naughton / Vertonghen ? Koscielny / Vermaelen ? etc.


They can make big games and defend like beasts but sometimes they also show in game imaturity and lack of concentration...they have huge problems when it comes about marking and positioning against latin teams from Europe.It can be caused by underestimating the opposition, at least this is happening at Manchester United this season.

Well I don#t think that's a huge problem. Some defenders are getting old, and will be replaced soon, and defenders sometimes make mistakes, especially if lack of midfield puts them under a lot of pressure.

But I really think the average EPL side understands full-well that good defenders are important to have, and I see most of them buying defenders they perceive as being good regularly.

Yes, but many of them came from weaker teams where the attention was on them because that teams only had to defend and sometimes they had great interceptions and people use to omitt their mistakes and put them in shadow because their club is seen as 'a weak one' and it is easy to blame other teammates for not doing their job correctly on the pitch.But now, at a higher level, the errors are in a bright light so everyone can see their real quality as defenders because the expectations are higher.

Midfielders are on paper very good.Many of them grow up at different mediocre clubs, they are seen as "incredible young talents" and they meet each other at stronger teams later, where they just can't cope with each other.

Individually speaking, many teams from EPL have great CDMs, CMs and CAMs, but nobody analyzed the situation before their transfers and find if they can possibly fit to the team's tactics.Now for some coaches it is hard to create the perfect formation and use the players at their maximum because it is a mixture of different kind of players with different mentalities so it all became a total chaos.

Some solutions could be:

1.Invest more in youth academies and avoid buying 'superstars' from Brazil with 30 mil pounds and keep them on the bench.
2.Try to hire coaches with a well prepaired long term project and leave them do their job.

About the style of play necessary to have successful performances in Europe, I am not sure.

Our sides regularly reach cl finals for the last decade, only thing letting is down is n Italian manager managing the champions who sucks in Europe.
Just because we haven't got 5 teams in the semis doesn't mean we need to improve FFs

Interesting thread. BEIN Sport (the network that covers Serie A, La Liga and Ligue 1 in the U.S.) now does its promos for la La Liga stating that it brings La Liga to American viewers, "The greatest football league in the world". Since the FIFA? team of the year had all players from La Liga, which BEIN Sport names in the promo, it hasn't been heresy to say that. Of course, Fox Soccer that presents the EPL claims that they bring the "greatest league in the world" to U.S. viewers. In my opinion the EPL is inferior to both the Bundesliga and Serie A in terms of the quality of play, regardless of popularity, and I was a fervent EPL fanboy (Liverpool) until 2-3 years ago. I still watch Liverpool, but boy are the games dour compared to what I see in La Liga and Serie A.

EPL games dour? Lol
Utd and city play good football, arsenal are arsenal. Swansea, west brom, Newcastle, spurs, Southampton, Norwich, qpr, Wigan, villa.. Stop me at the long ball team... Chelsea...
The reason you see high scoring in the EPL us because everyone tries to keep it in the ground, nobody is throwing 10 behind the ball and hoofing it to the big man.
Villa FFs are getting thrashed because they play too open, they can't shut it down. Qpr play on the ground but can't finish.. Look at liverpool even, they try and keep it on the ground as much as any mid table la liga or German side do
Every team has flaws but it's not this kick and rush game you lot make it out to be anymore.
Germany is more kick and rush these days than england

Lord Spencer wrote:

Art Morte wrote:I don't think there's a problem.

So according to you, EPL teams are perfect and don't need any change.

And you believe that despite evidence to the contrary, ranging from the fact that your champions were eliminated from CL two years in a row. The fact that the English NT is woefully bad. And the fact that you no longer dominate the CL as you used to.

Not perfect, but good enough.

The English top 4 teams were peaked during the time they dominated CL - some of those key players have left & most of the players have aged n declined.
In combination with other teams around europe mostly improving it's natural that the results become more spread about, which makes the competition more enjoyable anyway.
The league itself has healthy competition and it still prospers - where's the need for improvement?

Gemini wrote:The English top 4 teams were peaked during the time they dominated CL - some of those key players have left & most of the players have aged n declined.
In combination with other teams around europe mostly improving it's natural that the results become more spread about, which makes the competition more enjoyable anyway.
The league itself has healthy competition and it still prospers - where's the need for improvement?

Have you read previous posts? I am asking what should EPL teams should improve to dominate again in European Competitions and win many points because, for example, Germany is threatening us at the Country coefficient.

Of course EPL is still spectacular.It is the most spectacular and dramatic league in the world.But is is obviously we are a step back in European competitions than our position in 2005 - 2009.

Still not enough English based players in the league for my liking.

Although I think the new academy system setup and teams making use of st Geroges park will start to improve that situation, although it will probably take a few years before we see it on the field.

Gemini and Art_Morte make some valid points, but honestly you two: cyberman's on your side. You must be wrong somehow.

lol Vivasty

So English clubs aren't having the best CL campaign, but so what? This is the kind of topic that's easy to comment on in a given moment, but give it five years and I'm pretty sure stats will show that English clubs have been doing pretty much the same as thus far. Cycles and that.

cyberman wrote:Utd and city play good football, arsenal are arsenal. Swansea, west brom, Newcastle, spurs, Southampton, Norwich, qpr, Wigan, villa.. Stop me at the long ball team... Chelsea...

The reason you see high scoring in the EPL us because everyone tries to keep it in the ground, nobody is throwing 10 behind the ball and hoofing it to the big man.

TOO MUCH SENTIMENTS WITH DICTATORIAL MANAGERS..

if this were Madrid , wenger would have been fired long time ago..

every year I watch my arsenal crumble cuz the Dictator has no tactical idea on what to do, then ge goes on feeding us lies about these and that and want you to live with it, no complaints, like a typical Dictator

I have been saying this for a while and there is a very easy answer to this question and it's that the EPL has no identity what so ever.

It's pretty much the only league where they put no emphasis on bringing up there countries own players and therefore there is no natural rhythm between players.

Hell most of the coaches aren't even English. I also believe what I'm about to say is 100% true and it hurts the league terribly is that most of the coaches in the league have no respect for the way English players are brought up and they believe having an English "star" on your team does more harm then good because there overpriced overrated and can get coaches fired.

When Spanish, German, Italian teams tactics don't work during a game the team resorts to playing like Spaniards, Germans or Italians which there fundamentals kick in and the side have a general road map on how to play when things are breaking down.

In Europe when things break down for an English team and there plan isn't working it can turn really ugly really quick and they can look like they can't even string 3 passes together because there is no harmony among players playing in a familiar system and thus the players turn back to there comfort zone and then none of them are on the same page because they all have different comfort zones as most of them are from different places and have differing opinions on how to play.

Also, the second reason which I think the EPL is FINALLY starting to correct is that they used to put a premium on big, strong, fast athletes not football players. Cazorla, Mata, Silva, RVP etc probably can't beat most players in a race nor can they out muscle people or jump as high as them but they are pure footballers. There technique is outstanding there positioning is flawless and they make everyone around them better.

It was often said by English announcers and EPL fans Barca hasn't played at Stoke City on a rainy cold night. And that is pretty much what I just said they value strength, speed, and athletes over football players and for a long time it was thought that these small Spaniards would be eaten alive in the EPL. We have seen how stupid an opinion that is.

And for those saying there is no problem, the Bilbao / Man United games last year should have sounded sirens off in your head. It's not just that they lost but were beaten comprehensively in every aspect of the game by a provincial team of Basque's that were no threat to win La Liga and were at the end of the season an above average team in Spain.

That should never happen to a team that is in the top 2 of your league every year and pretty much does what ever they want to most EPL competition.

City also not being able to get out of the group stages of the CL should set off sirens as well as they are built to compete in the EPL and not Europe. When forming a team to win your to win your league that should spill over to make you a good European team and the only league that is not the case in is the EPL.

vladdy wrote:

Gemini wrote:The English top 4 teams were peaked during the time they dominated CL - some of those key players have left & most of the players have aged n declined.
In combination with other teams around europe mostly improving it's natural that the results become more spread about, which makes the competition more enjoyable anyway.
The league itself has healthy competition and it still prospers - where's the need for improvement?

Have you read previous posts? I am asking what should EPL teams should improve to dominate again in European Competitions and win many points because, for example, Germany is threatening us at the Country coefficient.

Of course EPL is still spectacular.It is the most spectacular and dramatic league in the world.But is is obviously we are a step back in European competitions than our position in 2005 - 2009.

Well, it is your opinion that the EPL is the most "spectacular and dramatic" league in the world. And, I guess it depends on what people believe is spectacular. Watching the close passing and ball control in La Liga and Serie A is spectacular to me. The Bundesliga has all the pace of the EPL combined with sophisticated tactical play yet has a high level of skillful ball control and close passing, if not at the level of La Liga and Serie A.

Seriously, sophisticated tactial play in Bundesliga?The same with La Liga.The league where the first place wins only with 3 or 4 goals difference in almost all games, even against 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th place etc.And don't tell me about the exceptions because they are happening very rarely.If they don't win with a high score difference, the difference on the pitch is to high.Where are the opponents?What tactics do they have?In England the best teams struggle to win almost every game.The same thing is happening in Serie A.There, when the teams win it's almost everytime happening by one or two goals difference and the games are balanced.

Why don't teams from La Liga and Bundesliga win against Serie A or EPL teams in European competitions with 4-0 everytime if they are that good?

Also I am not sure that Serie A or Bundesliga players are better when it comes about ball control and close passing.Think about Aguero, Silva, Tevez, Nasri, Nani, Rooney, Carrick, RVP, Lennon, Dembele, Dempsey, Suarez, Mata, Oscar, Hazard, Pienaar, Baines, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Marveaux etc. Those players are at a high level of ball control and passing.But the point is that having a lot of dramatic and tensioned games is what I find the most important aspect for being spectacular as a championship. I am not saying that EPL is perfect.I really appreciate class, regardless of championship.I am a real fan of Serie A and its teams.

And now back on-topic guys.If you don't like my post, try to ignore it.I really didn't want to bring again this eternal stupid fight caused by people's choices for their favourite leagues.The thread is about something else.

vladdy wrote:Seriously, sophisticated tactial play in Bundesliga?The same with La Liga.The league where the first place wins only with 3 or 4 goals difference in almost all games, even against 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th place etc.And don't tell me about the exceptions because they are happening very rarely.If they don't win with a high score difference, the difference on the pitch is to high.Where are the opponents?What tactics do they have?In England the best teams struggle to win almost every game.The same thing is happening in Serie A.There, when the teams win it's almost everytime happening by one or two goals difference and the games are balanced.

[b]Why don't teams from La Liga and Bundesliga win against Serie A or EPL teams in European competitions with 4-0 everytime if they are that good?[/b]

Also I am not sure that Serie A or Bundesliga players are better when it comes about ball control and close passing.Think about Aguero, Silva, Tevez, Nasri, Nani, Rooney, Carrick, RVP, Lennon, Dembele, Dempsey, Suarez, Mata, Oscar, Hazard, Pienaar, Baines, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Marveaux etc. Those players are at a high level of ball control and passing.But the point is that having a lot of dramatic and tensioned games is what I find the most important aspect for being spectacular as a championship. I am not saying that EPL is perfect.I really appreciate class, regardless of championship.I am a real fan of Serie A and its teams.

And now back on-topic guys.If you don't like my post, try to ignore it.I really didn't want to bring again this eternal stupid fight caused by people's choices for their favourite leagues.The thread is about something else.

Can I please nominate this for the worst post I have seen in a very long time.

Man U who was champions of your league last year except for a Sergio Aguero goal in the last minute of the last game of the year got taken apart by Bilbao who didn't even qualify to the Champions League that year. They were an above average team in La Liga and over 2 legs they were beaten both times. And the football being displayed wasn't even close.

Chelsea who won the CL got thrashed terribly by Atletico Madrid 4-1 in the Super Cup. The game wasn't even competitive. IT was 3-0 in the first half for freaking sakes.

Atletico were putting players in with like 25 minutes left to get experience in a cup game.

City hasn't been able to get out of there group for the last two years and United didn't get out of a group of Basel, Benefica, Otelul Galati. That is one of the easiest groups I've ever seen.

And when United played Barca in the finals of the CL when it was actually 1 vs 1 they got there ass handed to them in games they were barley competitive.

You picked a really bad time for this post dude. Your teams are getting destroyed by average La Liga teams.

My post can be the worst ever, but you didn't understand anything from it.

Man United lost against Bilbao and English teams have worse performances in Europe than 5-6 years ago and that's exactly why I have opened this thread.I have to say it again: have you read the previous posts in this thread?

Chelsea lost against Atletico but won a more important game against Barca.I know it didn't happen by playing an offensive football (Chelsea finished 6th in EPL last season), but they qualified in the final.So what? "Average team in EPL, like Bilbao is in La Liga" beats Barcelona.Doesn't prove anything.That doesn't mean that Barca isn't better than Chelsea.Same with United.Do you still believe that Basel are better than Man United? But in my opinion, there is no reason to argue about this.It is useless.You caused this by using inappropriate words when not needed.

If you can't give an answer to the thread's question, try to ignore it.

Defense, Defense, Defense , and oh wait Defense

With the whole league vs league, I hate when the typical EPL fanboy will say "Serie A is old" "Serie A is boring" Well that's a load of bullshit. Serie A has around a .7 age difference from EPL, and there is competition. Juve losing to Samp, Palermo playing out a 2-2 draw with Lazio, Udinese beating Fiorentina, etc etc. This whole "best league in the world" thing is just full of crap.

It really annoys me when people say "English football is the best, it has the best players and the best teams." Well I hate to break it to people but they don't.