Re: What is your Bayern Munich strongest line-up..?

by BAYERN_MUNICH Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:48 pm

If i consider the current form:

Neuer
Lahm - Dante - Badstuber - Alaba
Martinez - Schweinsteiger
Robben - Kroos - Ribery
Mandzukic

last years form:

Lahm - Dante - Badstuber - Alaba
Martinez - Schweinsteiger
Shaqiri - Kroos - Ribery
Gomez

but i prefer lineup #1 atm

players who deserve playing time as subs: Gustavo,Pizzaro,Shaqiri,Müller,Weiser

players i don't want to see subbed: Tymoschtschuk,Contento,vBuyten

by The Messiah Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:00 pm

Base on form Baoteng has played all our competitive matches as CB, Badstuber nothing, it's funny to say your selection is based on form, favoritism yes, form No

Same situation with Martinez and Gustavo, well I guess if you could you would also kick out Alaba and Dante.

This season Bayern wants trophy so expect all favoritism to be dropped by the coach, playing 2 left footed central back :facepalm:

by BAYERN_MUNICH Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm

The Messiah wrote:Base on form Baoteng has played all our competitive matches as CB, Badstuber nothing, it's funny to say your selection is based on form, favoritism yes, form No

Same situation with Martinez and Gustavo, well I guess if you could you would also kick out Alaba and Dante.

This season Bayern wants trophy so expect all favoritism to be dropped by the coach, playing 2 left footed central back

-played all competitive matches is not equal to a good form.
-Gustavo was not so good last year, but I'm a Gustavo fan. But he will not be in the starting 11 if Schweinsteiger and Martinez are fit, if you don't see that you are blind.
-Kick out Dante and Alaba? They are with Lahm our best 3 defenders.

by Kingofeverythingclassy Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Yea Based on form -

Neuer
Lahm Dante Badstuber Alaba
Martinez Kroos
Robben Shaqiri Ribery
Mandzukic/Gomez

Schweni is in a horrible phase. He needs a long association with the bench until he gets to his best. I still think Kroos needs 2 years more to be a complete CM.

Schweni-Martinez in the short team. Kroos-Martinez in the long run.

And I dont get this best thing stuff.

People are guaranteed Starting spots. Bayern paid 40M for Javi because he will start every match. Lahm,Robben,Ribery,Neuer are guranteed spots DVB being DVB sadly gits the spot of RCB to Boateng.

Alaba is miles better than Contento.

So there are only a few empty spots -> LCB,CM,CAM,ST. IF Schweni was at his peak he was guaranteed the CM spot,same with Gomez in ST. Now both of them have fallen & there are 2 More Open Positions.

All rotations will take in these 4 spots unless Heyneckes grows ball to play left footed CB's. The rest are 100% guaranteed Starters because they are far better than their replacements (or lack of replacements).

by The Messiah Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:30 pm

Boateng interception led to Mullers goal, Lewandwoski goal was Dante's fault, Stutggart goal Muller and Badstuber lost their men and were ball watching, The coach have started Boateng in all matches while Badstuber was benched against Dortmund simply because we needed to win and Boateng is our best CB.

Badstuber only started as CB against division2 team Resensburg, so If you say your selection is based on form then how is it even possible? Where did you take your measures from?

It's obvious to everyone that your selection is not based on form or whatsoever, I mean if you prefer Badstuber over Boateng or Martinez over Gustavo I guess it's ok and I don't doubt you, but to say your selection is based on form is lolwut.

Have you seen Gustavo form?

by BAYERN_MUNICH Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:31 pm

Kroos is not a DM and will never be. He was on a rampage form in the last first season-half, when Schweinsteiger-Gustavo played DM and Kroos as a '10'. Ribery said he is the best '10' in our squad.
Then he struggled when Schweinsteiger was injured and had to play DM. Not his fault , it's just not his was of playing-style. He is too good in creating chances and shoting to waste him as a DM.

You could also see that in the last match, how well he performed as a '10', very good off-ball movements and dangerous infront of the goal.

To all of you who think Martinez will play as a CB , thats just LOL. Did you watch/read any interviews from our board or from Jupp? They said about 1000times that we need a new DM ,even months ago they said so when no one talked about Martinez. Even before Jupp's first game he said he need a new DM and we wanted to get Vidal.
So if you think that we finally found a DM and paid 40Mil€, and now let him play as a CB, than you have no clue Very Happy

Maybe he will play some matches as CB,but not if our CBs are all fit.

Schweinsteiger is our most important player, as Heynckes said a week ago, and he has a starting place 1000% if fit.

The only position I'm not so sure is Mandzukic/Gomez and Kroos/Müller. But atm i prefer Mandzukic + Kroos.

by BAYERN_MUNICH Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:35 pm

The Messiah wrote:Boateng interception led to Mullers goal, Lewandwoski goal was Dante's fault, Stutggart goal Muller and Badstuber lost their men and were ball watching, The coach have started Boateng in all matched while Badstuber was benched against Dortmund simply because we needed to win and Boateng is our best CB.

Badstuber only started as CB against division2 team Resensburg, so If you say your selection is form then who is it even possible? Where did you take your measures from?

It's obvious to everyone that your selection is not based on form or whatsoever, I mean if you prefer Badstuber over Boateng or Martinez over Gustavo I guess it's ok and I don't doubt you but to say your selection is based on form is lolwut.

Have you seen Gustavo form?

You could argue about Martinez/Gustavo form atm, but to me Boateng makes so much more mistakes than Badstuber.
And one thing you don't consider are the amazing opening-balls by Badstuber to the flanks (for example to Ribery or Robben). You never see that from Boateng, he just makes 'safety passes'.

by The Messiah Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:48 pm

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:
The Messiah wrote:Boateng interception led to Mullers goal, Lewandwoski goal was Dante's fault, Stutggart goal Muller and Badstuber lost their men and were ball watching, The coach have started Boateng in all matched while Badstuber was benched against Dortmund simply because we needed to win and Boateng is our best CB.

Badstuber only started as CB against division2 team Resensburg, so If you say your selection is form then who is it even possible? Where did you take your measures from?

It's obvious to everyone that your selection is not based on form or whatsoever, I mean if you prefer Badstuber over Boateng or Martinez over Gustavo I guess it's ok and I don't doubt you but to say your selection is based on form is lolwut.

Have you seen Gustavo form?

You could argue about Martinez/Gustavo form atm, but to me Boateng makes so much more mistakes than Badstuber.
And one thing you don't consider are the amazing opening-balls by Badstuber to the flanks (for example to Ribery or Robben). You never see that from Boateng, he just makes 'safety passes'.

To me Boateng was a new player last season, was thrown around from fullback to Central Back and to be quite honest I didn't see him even make much mistakes, but I can easily ist Badstuber 6 mistake that led to goals last season.

Against Dortmund, Boateng-Dante show the reason why they should be starting as our CB, Badstuber mistakes are far too dangerous and instantly leads to goals, even if Boateng makes mistake he can still recover from them.

Boateng also plays from the back, last match he initiated our attack which led to Muller goal, Boateng is also very good with Passings but I don't know why deliberately Ignore this and of course his crosses are world-class.

http://www.footytube.com/video/bayern-munich-1-1-vfb-stuttgart-127794?ref=wv_relbox

To me, he's our best defender after Lahm, he's un benchable and to naturally talented.

This season is not a joke season, we must win, so I expect the coach to drop all the prejudice that was behind Badstuber selection last season of wish he played all matches whenever he was available, we must win this season, so our best players must play like it was against Dortmund.

it's not a mistake we won for the first time against Dortmund when Badstuber wasn't on the pitch, it's not a mistake we didn't concede against Dortmund until Badstuber came in, it's not a mistake that Boateng-DVB combo won all matches the partner each other last season without Badstuber.

We don't need any ball playing CB, we just need no nonsense defenders to help us win matches, we've far to many good players that can pass the ball already and of what effect is Badstuber passing are to us, unless of course putting everyone under tremendous pressure.

by The Messiah Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:55 pm

Also I agree that Schweinstieger when 100% fit should start 8/10, but to say you picked him based on form is lolwut, Schweinstieger hasn't featured much and was out of form, but I agree he's a great player and obviously better than Kroos as a CM/DM as well as Gustavo and Martinez.

Also Schweini is not our most important player, yes he's fan favourite but he's not our most important player. Neuer, Lahm, Ribery and Depends on how we use Muller are more important than him or evenly matched.

the Fans just love him and that's that, also after his attitude during the penalty shoot out, I think I lost a lot of respect for him, his importance was based on carrying the team mentally and in leadership, it didn't have any to do with his ability per say.

by juventus101 Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:10 pm

I think the best lineup is clearly:

--Neuer--
--Lahm-- --Boateng-- --Badstuber-- --Alaba--
--Martinez-- --Schweini--
--Robben-- --Kroos-- --Ribery--
--Gomez--

Bayern dominated every team they came up against last season using this lineup, including Real Madrid and Chelsea, and only lost to Chelsea in the final on PLs, in a final where Chelsea parked the bus and Robben missed a PK. Muller for Kroos and Dante for one of Badstuber or Boateng are the only ones with a chance of breaking into the starting lineup when all the guys above are fit and on form.

by VivaStPauli Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:08 pm

----------------- Neuer
Lahm -- Boateng - Badstuber -- Alaba
Martinez -- Schweinsteiger - Kroos
Robben ------- Müller ----- Ribéry

Or

------------------- Neuer
Lahm -- Boateng - Badstuber - Alaba
------- Martinez --- Schweinsteiger
Robben/Müller -- Kroos -------- Ribéry
--------------- Müller/Mandzukic

Play Müller is what I'm saying. Even if it means trying him out at CF or benching Robben.

I'm not too convinced by both of Gomez and Robben. They're both great at what they do, but Bayern doesn't really need what either of them does. A striker that is able to hold on to the ball and assist every once in a while would be preferrable to Gomez, and a winger that is less selfish and not a proven big game choke artist is preferrable to Robben.

by Babun Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:07 pm

Any of you who has BAD-stuber in the starting lineup : vagi: Dante defends set pieces and aerial balls better than BAD ever. He also intercepts and maintains offside line better eco smile

Whoever of you wants to start two left-footed central defenders ( BAD-stuber and Dante) even more :vagi : You have little clue about football eco smile

Robben is the most talented Bayern attacker. Benching him is a no go. You don't bench your most skillfull player on the ball for petty reasons. Gomez is another story. After his fails against us and Chelski, his position is questionable to say the least.

---------------Neuer---------------
Lahm-----Boa-----Dante----Alaba
--------------Gustavo--------------
-------Martinez-------Kroos--------
--Robben------------------Ribery--
---------Müller/Gomez/Madzukic--

Schweini has sucked for the past 1.5 years. I'm not going to rate him on past merits. On current form/ fitness, those guys fit the bill.

by Onyx Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:10 pm

---Lahm---Boateng---Dante---Alaba

by ioilersrock448 Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:01 pm

-------------------------------------------Neuer-------------------------------------------
--Lahm--------------Badstuber-------------------Dante------------------------Alaba
------------------------------------------Gustavo-----------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------Kroos----------------------------------------------
-----Robben-------------------------Mueller---------------------------------Ribery----
---------------------------------------Gomez

Bench: Starke, Boateng, Rafinha, Martinez, Can, Piggy, Shaqiri, Pizzaro, Mandzukic

Gomez and Alaba are injured right now but I still feel it is best to have them in starting XI when they are healthy. Now for my reasons:

Neuer is the best or second best goalkeeper in the world, he is the #1.

Lahm is the captain and an oustanding player.

So far, Dante has been very impressive to me and I think he has outplayed both Badstuber and Boateng. However, Badstuber seems to be more capable than Boateng to me and makes me feel less nervous when watching. With Badstuber you can also have terrific dead ball delivery.

Rafinha is too much of a liability, Tymo, Gustavo and Can aren't meant to play LB and Boateng has dmitted that he just wants to be a CB. Plus Alaba is becoming a quality player.

Gustavo and Martinez is close and I haven't really seen martinez enough to say that he is better than Gustavo. Gustavo is the type of player needed to destroy opposing attacks and is learning well as he goes along. However as time passes and Martinez becomes better I think he gets that spot.

I play Kroos in front of Gustavo as the playmaker instead of Schweinsteiger for now. Bastian Schweinsteiger is easily a world class player but he has had some injury problems recently and was a disgrace to watch in the CL final. He has played alot recently and I think he should be nursed into regular playing time rather than rushed in at the beggining of the season. However, don't take anything away from Kroos he is fantastic at distributing the ball and attacks forward well and is very intelligent.

Robbery on the outside is a no brainer and Shaqiri is a capable replacement to either. There is no better combination of wingers in the world than Robbery.

Bayern would not function without the engergy, runs and attitude of Thomas Mueller. Gomez is a lazy poaching striker but why does he get so many goals? thomas Mueller makes darting runs that create space close to goal for Gomez and others. He isn't the most skilled player on Bayern but due to his value to Bayern and how much space he creates for others, Mueller always needs a place on the team.

Gomez is still the best striker for me, he misses chances but he scores alot and I would rather have a striker who scores tons of goals then one who links play well.

Bayern spent alot of money and I am very optimistic about this season but Bayern didn't buy a leader. Unless Lahm and Schweinsteiger really step up into a leadership role, we are dommed for failure.

by Valkyrja Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:34 pm

@ioilersrock448

Ronaldo-Di Maria are better than Robbery

by Ganso Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:43 pm

--------------Neuer-------------------
-Lahm-Boateng-Dante-Alaba----
---Martinez--Schweinsteiger------
-Robben---Kroos------Ribery-------
--------------Gomez------------------

Laughing

@ the robben hate

also Dante>>>>>>>Badstuber

by Vlad the Impaler Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:06 am

Kizu wrote:@ioilersrock448

Ronaldo-Di Maria are better than Robbery

Never.They didn't even prove this.

Di Maria is overrated in my opinion.

by Gil Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:01 am

Muller should start but he's always been at his best playing RM & Arjen is undroppable.

You'd have to drop Kroos and start Muller instead though.

That's the only real dilemma in the squad as the rest of the team picks itself really.

Perhaps drop Schweini for Kroos? He's been shite for ages now lol.

Where did this myth of Martinez being a great CB come from btw? Athletic conceded 53(!!!!) goals in La Liga last season with him in there and he got raped by Falcao in the Europa League final. He's always been at his best as a DM so Guatavo gets dropped.

Don't rate Boateng that highly but BADstuber's an even worse player so he gets the nod ahead of him. Dante looks like a solid player so he should play alongside Boa.

Pizarro is Bayern's best striker IMO but politics means he'll be behind Gomez & Mandzukic & between those two you'd have to go with Godmez because of his outstanding goals oring record.

Neuer
Lahm Boateng Dante Alaba
Martinez Schwein/Kroos
Robben/Muller Kroos/Muller Ribery
Gomez

by Gil Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:01 am

vlafy wrote:
Kizu wrote:@ioilersrock448

Ronaldo-Di Maria are better than Robbery

Never.They didn't even prove this.

Di Maria is overrated in my opinion.

Di Maria overrated. Laughing

by Kaladin Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:07 am

Gil wrote:
vlafy wrote:
Kizu wrote:@ioilersrock448

Ronaldo-Di Maria are better than Robbery

Never.They didn't even prove this.

Di Maria is overrated in my opinion.

Di Maria overrated.

by Casciavit Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:37 am

Bayern Best formation? Will make another one tomo.

4-1-4-1/4-3-3 Varation

-----------Neuer--------
Lahm Boateng Dante Alaba
----------Martinez-------
Robben Kroos Schwein Ribery
--------Gomez/Muller----

by Kingofeverythingclassy Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:23 am

The Messiah wrote:Boateng interception led to Mullers goal, Lewandwoski goal was Dante's fault, Stutggart goal Muller and Badstuber lost their men and were ball watching, The coach have started Boateng in all matches while Badstuber was benched against Dortmund simply because we needed to win and Boateng is our best CB.

Badstuber only started as CB against division2 team Resensburg, so If you say your selection is based on form then how is it even possible? Where did you take your measures from?

It's obvious to everyone that your selection is not based on form or whatsoever, I mean if you prefer Badstuber over Boateng or Martinez over Gustavo I guess it's ok and I don't doubt you, but to say your selection is based on form is lolwut.

Have you seen Gustavo form?

It is. Boateng is rubbish simply because he is 0 reliable. LOok at Boateng's mistake. Bad luck or not he lost the ball against Dortmund 1st leg & let Goetze score,we lost at home when we had a 5 point lead. He lost Drogba & like a retard let Lampard slip in between himself & Drogba which is an absolutely Rookie Mistake. You dont even do that. That is not man-marking in a corner. That goal costed us the CL primarily. After that we had Gomez misses,Robben PK & so on.

Boateng's mistakes are costlty. Boateng made a ton of mistakes at RB too but since it is so wide & far from the Goal it did not effect the team too much. There is a reason why badstuber was voted 2nd best CB in the league. There is a reason why Heyneckes always started Badstuber & benched Boateng last year & said he needs to improve.

There is a reason why Badstuber starts for Germany. Boateng is a 0 IQ player & a complete waste as a defender because is like a 100 in PHysical gifts, ridiculously fast & strongly build up but gives poor end product. Badstuber is slow & not that strong but he had very good anticipation skills,is very stable & is a tremendous passer.

You need 1 very good passer at the back otherwise the point of buying Martinez gets wasted. The DM has to drop too deep & the whole team falls back.

Also I cant remember Badstuber's 6 mistakes but they have been less costly. If Badstuber has had 6 Boateng has 16 but we ignore it constantly. He had partial fault for Lewandoski's goal which we dont mention.

If you remember Boateng made 2 shitty challengers against City which should have been 2 PK in Allianz & it could have been game over by then. He was lucky then. It's allright,we dont make a big deal out of it.

I am not saying Badstuber is Bayern Quality. But neither is Boateng. Only reason he is starting is because it is way too risky starting 2 left footed CB's & Dante is playing very good at this point. But there will be matches where Goose starts at DM,a few atleast & those matches we will see Martinez playing CB.

Also it is a very stupid idea IMO to base a player's defensive quality on number of goals the team conceded. It is a 4 man defence & if the rest play like shit there is nothing which can be done. There are loads of factors including your strength & oppositon's relative strength. I am not saying Martinez is a great CB but to me he looks like the PERFECT Barca CB,the 1 they need. Strong tall technical Brilliant in headers CB + CDM Combo

by Margera Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:50 am

Ok serious question here, no hate nor trolling.

What makes Robben undroppable ? Last season he pretty much personally made Bayern lose the german cup and arguably the league too. Then after season he failed to produce for Netherlands (Euros) as well, although the whole team was playing bad so can't fully blame it on Robben here, but the point is he is a "proven choker on the big stage" :coffee:

. Now add to that, he is a one trick pony, picks fights with his teammates, is selfish and the team plays better without him. Robben hasn't been a top player since his days at Chelsea. I understand Ribery being undroppable since he is amazing when fit, equal to Ronaldo imo.

For god sakes Bayern has good wingers other than Ribery and Robben. So use them, make Robben compete for his starting XI and see who comes out as the best option. I'll say it Muller > Robben. If Bayern continue to use Robben at big games I fully expect him to continue choking against them and costing Bayern their title hunt.

So back to the original question. What makes Robben undroppable ?
(is that even a word Razz

?, meh cba to look for the right word, everyone understands what I am talking about)

by rwo power Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:11 am

@king

I wholeheartily agree with you about Badstuber. I have tried to point out your arguments before (you can find lengthy comments of mine in the Bayern section to that topic if you choose to look for them), but as several people only shot down my arguments by slander not facts, I decided not to comment on these anymore as it is useless to talk until one is blue in the face while the line-ups the coaches choose show that they obviously see things my way anyway Very Happy

@Margera

I think Robben doesn't get dropped because he is a diva and putting him on the bench probably could endanger the mood within the team.

by Kingofeverythingclassy Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:33 pm

Margera wrote:Ok serious question here, no hate nor trolling.

What makes Robben undroppable ? Last season he pretty much personally made Bayern lose the german cup and arguably the league too. Then after season he failed to produce for Netherlands (Euros) as well, although the whole team was playing bad so can't fully blame it on Robben here, but the point is he is a "proven choker on the big stage" . Now add to that, he is a one trick pony, picks fights with his teammates, is selfish and the team plays better without him. Robben hasn't been a top player since his days at Chelsea. I understand Ribery being undroppable since he is amazing when fit, equal to Ronaldo imo.

For god sakes Bayern has good wingers other than Ribery and Robben. So use them, make Robben compete for his starting XI and see who comes out as the best option. I'll say it Muller > Robben. If Bayern continue to use Robben at big games I fully expect him to continue choking against them and costing Bayern their title hunt.

So back to the original question. What makes Robben undroppable ?
(is that even a word ?, meh cba to look for the right word, everyone understands what I am talking about)

I think bar this season nobody has out-performed Robben on a big level. You could argue that he missed a sitter in the WC final but if that ball had not hit Casillas spike & gone it then today it would have been different. He single handedly carried Bayern to CHL final,something I doubt has been done.

He played with a 5cm hole in his leg in the WC & did very well. He did not have a good Euro sure but no Dutch player had a good Euro.

As for him loosing Bayern the German Cup,this is a pretty retarded thing to say as he scored the all important PK to draw Bayern level & had a great game & did not miss much chances.

As for BL he is one of the main reasons why bayern even managed to get near the BL title. People forget those games against Mainz where Bayern would scrape past with a 1-0 win because of 1 Robben strike outside the box. Or those run of games where Bayern were beating 6-0 & Robben was averaging like 2 goals & 2 assists per game & getting MOM after MOM.

Even in ties like Basel when Bayern lost the 1st leg,Robben scored the 1st goal & then set-up Muller on his own to take Bayern forward. Or the Marseille tie where he set Gomez up & scored an Absolutely World Class goal to take Bayern to 2-0 Away from home which killed the whole game. Ribery had a very bad game against marseille away.

People forget those moments. Had Robben scored the PK Bayern would still draw & be 3 points behind Dortmund & loose the title. The reason Bayern lost is because they had a 8 point lead which became a 8 point deficit & this involved faults from the whole team. Even Lahm had blunders at LB which costed a whole game.

Also Robben in 2009-2010 season he had by far one of the best Seasons in Champions League history. So it is pretty retarded to say he has not been a Superstar since Chelsea. Only Sneijder(Arguably was better than him that season).

Other than that -> Bayern averages like 2.5 points when Robben plays & 1.65 odd when Robben does not. So it is clear how the team does it. Neither Messi nor Ronaldo makes this kind of a difference.

Even in his injury prone 2010-11 season he had 14 goals & 14 assists in 18 games & was in Eufa Team of the season. If you take out Ronaldo's PK's & tap-in's I would say in 2009-11 he was World Class & was as good as anybody bar Messi.

Also Ribery has always been a Side-Kick to Robben because Robben is by far Bayern's best player,you can ask Hoeness or Sammer they will say the answer. Ribery only shone when Robben had a bad injury. Even last season Robben was Much better than Ribery when from February to April odd when he was eating up 1 team after the other.

He had a horrible end to the season but I am pretty sure if somebody as Egoistical & shitty behaviour wise as Ronaldo can play for Madrid then Robben can play for Bayern too. Especially considering Ribery beats up team-mates too & has gotten into fights with multiple team-mates including Mandzukic & has created the prosititute & NT problems.

Robben bar his individualist issues does not create major hazards. He is disciplined in terms of his work ethic.

by The Messiah Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:47 pm

Robben is probably one of Bayern best individual player, but the team plays better without him.

and Ribery is either better than him or they are evenly match.

I don't believe Robben was anything special last season, when he wasn't playing we played much better.

the 1 goal he scored against Mainz if he wasn't there maybe we could have scored more, also against Basel we would have beaten them without him, so it was nothing special to say but missing two important penalty it's something any true fan will question and remember and add to that all the miss chances against Madrid that could have put the game too bed.

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