Re: How good would Iniesta be if he could shoot?

by Harmonica Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:45 pm

FilthyLuca wrote:ow good would messi be if he could pass like pirlo?

Messi is already as good passer as Pirlo.

League Throughballs/ Key Passes/ Assists (whoscored.com)

Messi 56 92 16
Pirlo 33 125 13

by CBarca Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:46 pm

Messi is a better dribbler overall but I think that in very tight spaces against several people Iniesta is better Razz

by Harmonica Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:51 pm

CBarca wrote:Messi is a better dribbler overall but I think that in very tight spaces against several people Iniesta is better

He isn't.

How good would Iniesta be if he could shoot? - Page 2 Di-7BBC

by The Franchise Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:06 pm

danyjr wrote:
FilthyLuca wrote:he's the player he is because he plays to his strengths and not his weaknesses, if you change that, he's be a different player. he's fine the way he is.

Gold. If only people understood.

smh

Every worthwhile person on the forum already knows that, pointing it out is just silly.

Nothing wrong with playing a little bit of fantasy here, it creates discussion.

by BarcaKizz Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:28 pm

Thanks Dani. Completely agree... its not a 'stupid question' its called a hypothetical because its actually quite interesting and applicable right now as Iniesta is at the Euros with Spain where it would be EXTREMELY handy if he could shoot. I'm completely aware that because he's small and he's quite weak its impossible for him to have a shot like CR7... I'm not an idiot.

The hypothetical is merely questioning whether if he played exactly the same, but when he did shoot, he was better at it, would he be a better player? Lets refine this to the Euros for example... My answer is yes, he would have probably 3 goals and would easily be considered the best player of the tournament so far. That is my genuine belief.

Free: Good to see someone answer the question. I agree... he would be incredible. Not like Messi because he'd still be playing and midfield and wouldn't be running in behind and on the defensive line. Also, as you've pointed out, Messi is ridiculously quick and explosive. However, its clear Iniesta would be godly.

People are saying 'I'd keep him the way he is...'. Why... this is a hypothetical... Every player has weaknesses, if you could correct those weaknesses it would make them a better player, simple as that. I'm simply saying, keep everything the same about Iniesta and give him better shooting. Its clear he'd be better and it would be incredibly useful in park the bus situations. Someone mentioned Cesc... he's a goalscorer because he makes smart runs, not because he has an excellent shot. His shot is better, but he's hardly a threat around the box.

by danyjr Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:46 pm

I believe it is unfair to ask hypothetical questions because answering them involves ignoring two vital factors:

1) The question is hypothetical in the first place. There is no factual base behind it. It doesn't deal with realities. "If you ever have dinner with Bar Rafaeli what will you do?" I don't like answering these questions, because I don't believe there is a chance in ever having dinner with her. And it's not because I don't think I'm good enough for her, in fact quite the opposite Wink

2) Every quality comes with its counter-quality. One who can speak a lot doesn't think a lot and vice versa. One who shoots a lot, hasn't learned to pass a lot.

Yes, it would be great to see a player who is tall, quick, strong, hard-working, great vision, great crosser, great passer and has 99 in every stat in FIFA, but that physically is not possible.

by harhar11 Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:20 am

jiopsi wrote:
CBarca wrote:Messi is a better dribbler overall but I think that in very tight spaces against several people Iniesta is better
He isn't.

There are lot of times where Iniesta has dribbled in tight spaces as well, for example that croqueta against athletic(?) when he had less space than Messi had there.

by Harmonica Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:27 am

harhar11 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
CBarca wrote:Messi is a better dribbler overall but I think that in very tight spaces against several people Iniesta is better
He isn't.

There are lot of times where Iniesta has dribbled in tight spaces as well, for example that croqueta against athletic(?) when he had less space than Messi had there.

If we are going by the examples, you're going to lose.

Iniesta is probably the second best dribbler in the world, but Messi is definitely the best dribbler in the history. Messi is faster, stronger, atleast as technical dribbler, and his comfort with the ball gives him the edge to see his surroundings better, which then enables him to attack anything, like that above.

by BarcaKizz Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:32 am

danyjr wrote:I believe it is unfair to ask hypothetical questions because answering them involves ignoring two vital factors:

1) The question is hypothetical in the first place. There is no factual base behind it. It doesn't deal with realities. "If you ever have dinner with Bar Rafaeli what will you do?" I don't like answering these questions, because I don't believe there is a chance in ever having dinner with her. And it's not because I don't think I'm good enough for her, in fact quite the opposite

2) Every quality comes with its counter-quality. One who can speak a lot doesn't think a lot and vice versa. One who shoots a lot, hasn't learned to pass a lot.

Yes, it would be great to see a player who is tall, quick, strong, hard-working, great vision, great crosser, great passer and has 99 in every stat in FIFA, but that physically is not possible.

What you've pretty much said is that you don't like hypothetical questions. So don't answer them in the first place...

by harhar11 Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:31 am

jiopsi wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
CBarca wrote:Messi is a better dribbler overall but I think that in very tight spaces against several people Iniesta is better
He isn't.

There are lot of times where Iniesta has dribbled in tight spaces as well, for example that croqueta against athletic(?) when he had less space than Messi had there.
If we are going by the examples, you're going to lose.

Iniesta is probably the second best dribbler in the world, but Messi is definitely the best dribbler in the history. Messi is faster, stronger, atleast as technical dribbler, and his comfort with the ball gives him the edge to see his surroundings better, which then enables him to attack anything, like that above.

I also belive that Mesi is the best dribbler in be history, but that doesnt mean that he is the best at every dribble.

by Jonathan28 Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:06 pm

I disagree, Iniesta is a better dribbler then Messi for me. The way he just passes people is astounding, with some outrageous skill. Messi uses his speed and quick movement more then sheer skill. He'll out think the opponent and just move the ball away from him just when he thinks he's got it. Its exciting to watch, but Iniesta, by god, that guy is brilliant.

by danyjr Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:17 pm

Iniesta reminds me a lot like futsal players in the way he dribbles. I think he is better in tight places than Messi, but Messi is also very good in tight places, definitely better than Cristiano.

by Harmonica Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:29 pm

harhar11 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
harhar11 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
CBarca wrote:Messi is a better dribbler overall but I think that in very tight spaces against several people Iniesta is better
He isn't.

There are lot of times where Iniesta has dribbled in tight spaces as well, for example that croqueta against athletic(?) when he had less space than Messi had there.
If we are going by the examples, you're going to lose.

Iniesta is probably the second best dribbler in the world, but Messi is definitely the best dribbler in the history. Messi is faster, stronger, atleast as technical dribbler, and his comfort with the ball gives him the edge to see his surroundings better, which then enables him to attack anything, like that above.

I also belive that Mesi is the best dribbler in be history, but that doesnt mean that he is the best at every dribble.

Well of course, every dribble of Messi isn't successfull. I just don't think there is any collective evidence Iniesta being better at thight places against more opponents. And if you have examples of it, I'm more than happy to provide counter examples for it.

With Iniesta dribbling appears more like a highly developed technique, where as with Messi it appears like he was born with the ball.

by messixaviesta Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:46 am

BarcaKizz wrote:Just today... I was watching and thinking how good this guy would be if he could shoot like CR7 or Messi.

He is probably the best technician in the world, maybe one of the best of all time. He creates space where there isn't any. Quite simply, the man is a genius. What can't he do? Shoot. His shot is bloody pathetic half the time.

Over the years watching Barca it has always frustrated me how pathetic we are from the edge of the area (both for Xavi and Iniesta). So often they are there and try to pass it, or if they do shoot it is like... wtf was that piece of sh*t. OK. Iniesta has scored 2 of the best goals in the last decade of football... However, my argument still stands, and completely unharmed by this statistic I believe. Iniesta is a magical player, and capable of such moments, but it really has nothing to do with his shooting ability. It says more about his class, and stepping up in the big moments. Seriously, don't try to argue Iniesta has a good shot, because quite simply he doesn't.

1v1 he's pretty cool and normally scores, but he's rarely in such situations. What he's incredible at, is getting a little bit of space in and around the box (before he normally tries to pass it). Let's imagine he has the cannon shot of Cristiano Ronaldo? With the space he can get himself, he could be getting great shot, after great shot off and on target.

So how good would he be? Better than CR? Dare I say it, as good as Messi? One of the best of all time? I truly believe it, if Iniesta had a great shot, he would be near unstoppable.

PS. If this post was a bit angry/emotional its because I just watched the game and I'm raging at many of the Spanish shortcomings.

Excellent post kizz !!!

by messixaviesta Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:17 am

There was a time when I had asked you all if Iniesta would be there in all time top hundred players list.

Now I don't need to ask. Smile

Man of the match in a world cup final. Man of the match in a Euro final. Didn't win man of the match in UCL 2009 final but was neck to neck with Xavi who won. Quite simply the ultimate big match performer that I have seen with Zidane and Xavi as the only rivals.

I am asking people if they know of any players who have won MOM in both a World Cup and Euro final. The only player I think who may have done that is Zinedine Zidane. Maybe one of the Germans like Gerd Muller or Franz Beckenbauer but I doubt it.

by messixaviesta Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:26 am

So is it likely that the top three for best player in Europe and Fifa Ballon D'or this time will be Lionel Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo and Andres Iniesta? Or will Xavi and/or Andrea Pirlo be there instead? Any other names you all can think of?

by billionmillion Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:53 am

in tight spaces nobody can do this i'm sure
0:50 of this video

dribbled 5 players in 2-3 m space

by The Sanchez Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:58 am

billionmillion wrote:in tight spaces nobody can do this i'm sure
0:50 of this video

dribbled 5 players in 2-3 m space

GOAT!

by Harmonica Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:54 am

billionmillion wrote:in tight spaces nobody can do this i'm sure
0:50 of this video

https://www.youtube.com/v/Ctd2KvBOCX4

dribbled 5 players in 2-3 m space

How good would Iniesta be if he could shoot? - Page 2 Di-45A4

This happened in the same match

How good would Iniesta be if he could shoot? - Page 2 Di-WOHW

by Jonathan28 Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:44 am

Lol at Messi being a better dribbler then Iniesta, I know he's one of the best players of all time but that doesn't mean he has to be the best at everything. Someone said earlier that Messi looks like he was born with the ball whilst Iniesta technique looks like refined skill, nope, they were both born with the ball.

by Adit Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:37 am

Let me

him before my love turn to hate once season start

:bow :bow:

by free_cat Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:30 am

Jonathan28 wrote:Lol at Messi being a better dribbler then Iniesta, I know he's one of the best players of all time but that doesn't mean he has to be the best at everything. Someone said earlier that Messi looks like he was born with the ball whilst Iniesta technique looks like refined skill, nope, they were both born with the ball.

Let me say that the "Lol" is mutual. I lol at Iniesta being a better dribler than Messi.

Messi is not the best at everything (not the best free-kick or penalty kick taker, neither crosser for instance), but he is far a better dribler than Iniesta in any way you look it.

by Jonathan28 Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:57 am

Thats the joy of football man everyone has their own opinion on whos better at certain aspects of the game, Iniesta will always be the best dribbler for me and that will never change, theres a reason why we don't play aswell/win major trophies when he's injured or not at his best.

by billionmillion Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:02 pm

Jonathan28 wrote:Lol at Messi being a better dribbler then Iniesta, I know he's one of the best players of all time but that doesn't mean he has to be the best at everything. Someone said earlier that Messi looks like he was born with the ball whilst Iniesta technique looks like refined skill, nope, they were both born with the ball.

stop talking show a moment when iniesta dribbled 5 players then we can discuss. there is a reason why everyone talks about messi's dribbling

iniesta gets past 1 or 2 players with great style what he does with the ball is great, but dribbling is not measured by entertainment factors. you can say iniesta is more entertaining dribbler it would sound fair. Messi can do what iniesta does in tight spaces (there are ton of examples)
But Iniesta can not do what messi does in long distance dribblings.

you can have your opinion but your opinion has no logic

by BarcaKizz Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:15 pm

In my opinion Messi is also superior, but I will commend Iniesta for his dribbling... he's ridiculously slick. The way he moves is like he's on ice-skates... just glides around the turf.

I remember a journalist once likened Deco to Rembrandt painting a field with his movement... you could say the same for Iniesta.

Shout out to Thiago too... his moves are just awwwww.... Very Happy

I want more Thiago this season. Fabriago :bow:

by jibers Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:19 pm

So he can't shoot but he can pass. Makes no sense. Do you mean if Iniesta was a good finisher? English language :facepalm:

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