Jack Daniels wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Xavi shouldnt be benched, he should retire.

Nah.. He should be benched.

harhar11 wrote:Or better yet, use the old system. Shocking, I know.

Don't get hurt by a little joke now son.

Was joking as well, hence the shocking part

Sushi Master wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:

Thank you. That's my exact same opinion on the matter. Holy shit was the 2010 WC run a sleep fest.

I'd rather watch a team turtle it up for 90 mins than that borefest. At least you'd then get sudden changes in tempo.

tbh, Germanys games, apart against Greece, at this Euro haven't exactly been enterertaining either..

Hell, even Copa América had some boring games... it seems to be a trend nowadays for NT sides to focus on tactical balance rather than entertaining play.

Unfortunately. Only thing that would change that would be if the holders of a tournament would somehow reward the team who scores most goals with something extra, perhaps revamp the points system in group stages etc, giving a point for each goal you score, even though it would never happen cause that would make it more predictable and the small teams would have even less of a chance in group stages.

I think VDB still has a idealistic vision of Xavi though, he still sees him as that direct decisive assist man crirca 2008, possibly even as the guy who regularly ventured into the box for late runs and stuff like that.

IUf he was still that player he could still fulfill this role.

We can sit here and say one should be benched, but really...who deserves to be becnched?

No one.

I love Xavi...I really do, but the amount of young AM's who fit the role they're trying to give him, really...it's kinda depressing.

Xavi can get in the box on the end of things, last season he did that better than ever before. He can also make assists.

But you cant do any of that when your playing with 5 other mids and no forwards.

And even if this is what you need, then Cesc frankly is a better option for that.

Who deserved to be benched? Noone deserves it, but thats football...team over individuals. You do whats best for the team.

Some people think the Barca midfield would be best.

Some think double pivot.

Its up to whoever to have their opinion. One thing is for sure though, whichever you want, you need to pick the right players for it.

If you want the double pivot, then Xavi isnt the guy to play at the top of it. Mata, Silva, Cesc, Iniesta or even one of the kids would be better served there.

No Xabi should be benched. His passing is poor at this level tbh, how many times have we seen him whack a waist height ball to a teammate. Not giving a chance for them to do anything with the ball. It's like watching BPL.

Busquets,Xavi,Iniesta ftw.

SchinnerC wrote:No Xabi should be benched. His passing is poor at this level tbh, how many times have we seen him whack a waist height ball to a teammate. Not giving a chance for them to do anything with the ball. It's like watching BPL.

Busquets,Xavi,Iniesta ftw.

Ok.

I would like to see you tell undisputed starter and most important player at Real Madrid, the guy who has missed about 4 games in all international and club competitions in the last 4 years, the guy who just led us to La Liga ahead of Barca (and Xavi and Busquets)that he is no longer a starter for this team despite the fact that we are still winning and we just won the World cup.That might just divide the squad for good.

Carry a webcam tho, I would love to take in that conversation.

FYI ..all of them do that, Iniesta does that more than anyone, you have no point.

Anyway, tired of this, nothing i changing.

For me...no one should be dropped.Why change something when its not broken.I dont think VDB cares if his team is boring...He doesnt care.

He should care because low scoring opportunities means less chances to win. I don't think he's happy about having to go to penalties tonight.

Well its not broken, but its not as strong as it can be. They could be a dominant team, right now they are simply the most effective.

Will they change? No, of course not.

But I think everyone prefers to see the best possible team, the most attractive they can be, while winning.

Winning really shouldnt be the be all and end all for a team this talented with this much chemistry.

You said you wished for Xavi's hamstring to flair up, I said I wished for it too and I got called a hater, but this is why.

It will be a dominant team, but further down the road, the next generation is just as if not more talented than the last and this is by no means a old squad, VDB is just trying to play both of them because both of them deserve that respect, he's just trying to find a place for everyone.

I don't think these are his tactics, but they are just the result of making room for all the best players.

Nameless wrote:

Barrettinator wrote:My god do I hate Spanish football!

the irony on this one

I see you're also a City fan now.

Spoiler:

Perhaps, but I dont agree the next generation is more talented. The jury is still very much out on that one.

Once Iniesta wheels fall off, I very much doubt there will be two players who are as good as Iniesta is and Xavi has been.

Those two play at levels frankly beyond anything in Spains history and beyond most countries too in fact.

Seen things from Isco,Munain,Thiago, and my fav, talent is there just up to how we utilize it.Keep using the word better , but I really don't know lol, everything remains to be seen, no one was labelling Iniesta a world beater when he jumped onto the scene.

Even so the next generation and this one is the same thing, everyone important on this team bar Xavi and Xabi have a big future ahead.

Iniesta, you never know, hopefully he has 6 more years.

Of course it all remains to be seen....but all these kids who can't even make the squad would walk into so may national teams with relative ease.

Bar injuries and stuff, get the feeling the best years are still ahead.

Le Samourai wrote:

SchinnerC wrote:No Xabi should be benched. His passing is poor at this level tbh, how many times have we seen him whack a waist height ball to a teammate. Not giving a chance for them to do anything with the ball. It's like watching BPL.

Busquets,Xavi,Iniesta ftw.

Ok.

I would like to see you tell undisputed starter and most important player at Real Madrid, the guy who has missed about 4 games in all international and club competitions in the last 4 years, the guy who just led us to La Liga ahead of Barca (and Xavi and Busquets)that he is no longer a starter for this team despite the fact that we are still winning and we just won the World cup.That might just divide the squad for good.

Carry a webcam tho, I would love to take in that conversation.

FYI ..all of them do that, Iniesta does that more than anyone, you have no point.

Anyway, tired of this, nothing i changing.

Not going to get into this Barca vs Madrid argument. Yes of course all of them do that to a certain degree as sometimes a ground pass is not available. But the way he whack those passes are unnecessary. Btw I'm not talking about his long passes as it is obviously his strength. I'm talking about his mid range passes in which he sometimes doesn't put enough care into.

Also, Iniesta needs to be played in the middle. Wouldn't mind seeing Busquets,Alonso and Iniesta in midfield tbh but Xavi is still too good to be dropped. All 4 of them together is just not needed in most matches.

There are some decisions that are so tough to make, that you just don't make them at all.

You just let it be and hope for the best.

Time to VDB to drop Vagi. Iniesta came alive once he moved central.

Silva needs to be dropped as well.

Bring on Torres/Cex for Llorente if he's struggling.

Most people think that Spain became better when Xavi went off.I dont think it was that I think it was because of the impact that Navas and mostly Pedro had,they changed the game completely.Even though Xavi has not had the best tournament and his performances are way worse than four years ago but he cant be dropped Imo.Xavi is the focal point of Spain's style of play and it would be completely idiotic if he were to be dropped.

Zealous wrote:That's because they had Senna imo he really covered for a lot of the dirty work which allowed others to flourish.

Anyway Alonso is one of the best CM's in the world. Only a moron wouldn't start him.

this

vizkosity wrote:

Zealous wrote:That's because they had Senna imo he really covered for a lot of the dirty work which allowed others to flourish.

Anyway Alonso is one of the best CM's in the world. Only a moron wouldn't start him.

this

And so why are people saying drop Xavi? (unless that is just Gil I haven't read the full thing)

He's one of the best CM's in the world

And Xavi coming off didn't make Spain better cause he was bad or anything, it's as Vivabarca said, because of Navas and Pedro and them running at the defense and changing the way the offense played, as well as Jordi Alba getting a lot of free space to run into near the end. Nearly all of their attacks at the end originated from the wide positions where Navas, Pedro and Alba were, unsurprisingly.

EDIT: Although I must admit, sacrificing Xavi for one of Navas or Pedro would make me a happy man. Especially Navas. Xavi needs a break...especially since he's being misused so heavily. Like Franchise said, he should retire. I would love to see that.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Perhaps he will learn from his mistakes (which he fixed with subs, to his credit) for the final. Something tells me he's going to be stubborn and stick to the no-forward gameplan.

Btw it's good to see you around JD

Thanks alfred. I understand your frustration as a viewer but that is part of Del Bosque's plan. He doesn't want to use these players from the start. Instead he wants his peerless midfield to tire the opposition out completely and then try to kill them off with these impact players. I won't say it's great entertainment. I won't say it's a brilliant plan. However it's a practical and effective plan from a man who at least I rate extremely highly.

Le Samourai wrote: i still think the Xavi of old could re-appear and do just that in the final.

Why not. In the world cup his best match by far was against Germany. He loves playing against Germany.

Le Samourai wrote:
I don't think these are his tactics, but they are just the result of making room for all the best players.

That could be possible but I think it's mainly because he thinks teams will try counter-attacking against us too often and one DM will not be enough. He just doesn't want to undergo what happened to Barcelona vs. Chelsea. Not saying I completely agree with his point of view but that's how I understand it.

The Franchise wrote:Perhaps, but I dont agree the next generation is more talented. The jury is still very much out on that one.

Once Iniesta wheels fall off, I very much doubt there will be two players who are as good as Iniesta is and Xavi has been.

Those two play at levels frankly beyond anything in Spains history and beyond most countries too in fact.

Excellent post dani. I have said too many times that all that glitters is not gold and these two are pure gold or shall I say diamonds.

Le Samourai wrote:but all these kids who can't even make the squad would walk into so may national teams with relative ease.

Chelsea's main play maker Mata hasn't seen a single minute. That's the best way I can state the level of this team and especially it's midfield.

Spain, number of passes per shot: (via OptaSport)

Euro 2008 - 33
WC 2010 - 44
Euro 2012 - 58