Re: Group D: France vs England discussion

by sportsczy Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:24 am

First games of pool where the alleged 2 top teams are matched usually go like this. Italy v. Spain was an aberration because Del Bosque lost his mind and Italy took advantage by attacking... i don't think this Italy team is equipped defensively to ptb anyhow (never in my life i thought i would say this lol).

Second game is where teams that drew the first go for the win. We'll see how good or meh these teams are in the next game...

by BarcaLearning Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 am

donttreadonred wrote:France were definitely the better team, but England were every bit as pragmatic and negative as I expected of a Hodgson squad. The problem was that France decided to do a Spain impression, seldom making incicive runs into the box. C'mon Benzema! You're a World Class striker when you want to be. Grow a pair and get in the box!

Diarra was pretty solid in open play (though, his marking did let France down for England's goal). I don't think M'Vila's absence really contributed to the disappointing performance. England never came out to press. They were more than content to sit back and hope to nick a goal (a tactic I am still angry about from when Woy was at LFC). Unfortunately, it worked in this case, and it was Evra that gave away the foul. (Please pull him for Clichy...) In all, France looked lethargic and conservative. I always had the feeling that France hadn't really gotten into the tournament mindset yet and were willing to come out with a draw, especially after conceding a sloppy goal.

Gerrard was very good today. If not for him, France might have scored more. (Oh, the irony... What a cruel conflict of interest.) England as a squad didn't play badly. They did defend well, but they played negatively. They were fortunate to get the chance that led to the goal. To his credit, Lescott took it well and made sure not to waste his chance. Roy's tactics have been hailed by some as pragmatic against the group favorite, but wait until you see the same display against both Ukraine and Sweden. When they both come out fighting for their life in the tournament, England could be in trouble. Their next game against a desperate Sweden could be interesting.

I expect France to use this as a wake-up call and go on to win the next two matches. On the other hand, I see England drawing at least one of the next two matches (possibly losing one). The question is, will 5 points be enough to get out of the group? That now depends heavily on Ukraine's continued performance, as they have a huge leg up on the other 3 nations in the group.

I agree with France, they are much better than ppl think still and this showing wasnt their full ability, considering their relatively young team and new to the tournament etc and how well England setup... I thought Hoghson really deserves priase to be able to produce this from a weakened England team... I still think France to top it, but England should get second, although I agree too England vs Sweden (yet another one) will be a all out war game Very Happy

sportsczy wrote:First games of pool where the alleged 2 top teams are matched usually go like this. Italy v. Spain was an aberration because Del Bosque lost his mind and Italy took advantage by attacking... i don't think this Italy team is equipped defensively to ptb anyhow (never in my life i thought i would say this lol).

Second game is where teams that drew the first go for the win. We'll see how good or meh these teams are in the next game...

So true, first round didnt really show some of the big guns true abilities.... too cautious and warming up and having a draw will do etcetc.... looking forward to them really going for it next game.

by II Capitano Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:55 am

Ballack reacted in an inappropriate manner, he acted like he knows it all, when he clearly doesn't. The problem I have with his comments is that he thinks there's one brand of playing football, just like a lot of fans do, which is absurd. If you're truly a football fan, then you are going to accept diversity in the current game, regardless of what happens on the field. The funny thing is, those who are backing Ballack up, your team(s) have played defensive before, so it's contradictory and hypocritical to start slating England.

by The Sanchez Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:01 am

Malouda was a mere shadow and he was a waste of time... When you thought Nasri got cocky, he got cockier when scoring a goal against his teammate.

by sportsczy Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:11 am

Th

II Capitano wrote:Ballack reacted in an inappropriate manner, he acted like he knows it all, when he clearly doesn't. The problem I have with his comments is that he thinks there's one brand of playing football, just like a lot of fans do, which is absurd. If you're truly a football fan, then you are going to accept diversity in the current game, regardless of what happens on the field. The funny thing is, those who are backing Ballack up, your team(s) have played defensive before, so it's contradictory and hypocritical to start slating England.

The thing is, can England play any other way? If they do, then i'll agree with you. But if they play anti-footy against every team, then i admit that i have to agree with Ballack.

But against France, it made all the sense in the world. If England tried to play normal footy, they would have lost easily.

by Babun Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:25 am

II Capitano wrote:Ballack reacted in an inappropriate manner, he acted like he knows it all, when he clearly doesn't. The problem I have with his comments is that he thinks there's one brand of playing football, just like a lot of fans do, which is absurd. If you're truly a football fan, then you are going to accept diversity in the current game, regardless of what happens on the field. The funny thing is, those who are backing Ballack up, your team(s) have played defensive before, so it's contradictory and hypocritical to start slating England.

Your comment sounds like sour grapes of a butthurt fan.

England was right to set up a defensive formation vs. France but there was no gameplan forward beside defending. You guys managed one shot on target only. Some days it'll be enough most of the time it won't.

Wingers just ran down the wings in an erratic manner then crossed for Wellback who isn't known to be the king of the second floor. Even the crosses weren't precise.

In short, I didn't see any kind of gameplan in Englands game rather than hope for the best. Even counter attacks needs a scheme to be successful.

From a neutral point of view, it was the most boring game in Eruos 2012 so far.

In conclusion, I agree with everything Ballack said. Try to look at the matters from his point of view ( neutral) then you'll get what he meant.

by Babun Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:28 am

sportsczy wrote:First game against toughest group opponent. Game 2 is Ukraine, who are horrific. France basically played as conservative as they possibly could. If they lucked into a win, like Germany, great. But they weren't going to go all out against PTB and open themselves up for counters. No chance. Especially since Blanc is still figuring out where Mexes is physically.

I had 2 disappointments:
1- Malouda is a useless sack of donkey shat
2- Benz forgot that a CF is supposed to attack the box lol

if we had Giroud in there, i am sure we would have scored another one. So many times Ribery and Debuchy got the edge and benz wasn't even in the box.

Other thing.... Evra played well, that bastard. He's going to deceive sooner or later though.

I don't think France will go far. They lack a commanding midfielder. No team without one went far in any cup competitions.
All of your attackers look clueless. They aren't directed, there's no visible intensity. Some of them just walked around because there was no dirigeur. You'll go out against whoever emerges from the other group ( Pirlo, Xavi, Modric).

I didn't include Benz in my fantasy team exactly for that reason. He is no leading figure.

by sportsczy Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:31 am

I actually think we go very far as soon as we face teams that decide to play as opposed to park 8-10 guys behind the ball. Every single team that's played us without crazy defensive tactics, we beat since WC 2010.

I was happy to see Italy not PTB... that's the team i didn't want to face because that's what they always used to do lol.

I have no fears for France. If Ukraine plays, and the they will, we'll see the true France style of play.

besides, it was game 1 of pool. Most teams play it very conservatively. I mean look at German and Spain lol. They looked like shat too.

by EarlyPrototype Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:35 am

I wouldn't say England parked the bus.
They were defensive sure.....but they had a go at France and even missed the best chance of the game (Milner missing an open goal).
Possession was something like 60-40, but that is understandable since France have a better midfield.

by Babun Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:37 am

sportsczy wrote:I actually think we go very far as soon as we face teams that decide to play as opposed to park 8-10 guys behind the ball. Every single team that's played us without crazy defensive tactics, we beat since WC 2010.

I was happy to see Italy not PTB... that's the team i didn't want to face because that's what they always used to do lol.

I have no fears for France. If Ukraine plays, and the they will, we'll see the true France style of play.

besides, it was game 1 of pool. Most teams play it very conservatively. I mean look at German and Spain lol. They looked like shat too.

Big difference is that Dutch, Germany and Spain had a game plan. They didn't walk around cluelessly.
I also think Portugal is currently better than France. They're far more organized and play to their strengths. The second matchday will tell us a lot.

by sportsczy Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:40 am

Immortal Babun wrote:
sportsczy wrote:I actually think we go very far as soon as we face teams that decide to play as opposed to park 8-10 guys behind the ball. Every single team that's played us without crazy defensive tactics, we beat since WC 2010.

I was happy to see Italy not PTB... that's the team i didn't want to face because that's what they always used to do lol.

I have no fears for France. If Ukraine plays, and the they will, we'll see the true France style of play.

besides, it was game 1 of pool. Most teams play it very conservatively. I mean look at German and Spain lol. They looked like shat too.
Big difference is that Dutch, Germany and Spain had a game plan. They didn't walk around cluelessly.
I also think Portugal is currently better than France. They're far more organized and play to their strengths. The second matchday will tell us a lot.

Walk around cluelessly? Whatever dude. England had 1 shot on target. The game plan was to protect the CBs until Blanc is comfortable with them. Mexes needs playing time to get his marks back... you also had Diarra instead of M'Vila. It's great defensively... but a huge negative on the attack. Blanc was forced into a 4-3-3 because of Diarra. He can play a 4231 or 4222 with M'Vila.

The plan was perfect actually. Very well thought out strategy by France. The problem was that Benz was lost in the 433. He played too far out of the box. That was the only glaring issue that i saw. Blanc wasn't going to pull him out early and shake his confidence in this game. The result was acceptable.

You'll see against Ukraine. Ukraine actually plays football.

by II Capitano Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:43 am

Immortal Babun wrote:
II Capitano wrote:Ballack reacted in an inappropriate manner, he acted like he knows it all, when he clearly doesn't. The problem I have with his comments is that he thinks there's one brand of playing football, just like a lot of fans do, which is absurd. If you're truly a football fan, then you are going to accept diversity in the current game, regardless of what happens on the field. The funny thing is, those who are backing Ballack up, your team(s) have played defensive before, so it's contradictory and hypocritical to start slating England.
Your comment sounds like sour grapes of a butthurt fan.

England was right to set up a defensive formation vs. France but there was no gameplan forward beside defending. You guys managed one shot on target only. Some days it'll be enough most of the time it won't.

Wingers just ran down the wings in an erratic manner then crossed for Wellback who isn't known to be the king of the second floor. Even the crosses weren't precise.

In short, I didn't see any kind of gameplan in Englands game rather than hope for the best. Even counter attacks needs a scheme to be successful.

From a neutral point of view, it was the most boring game in Eruos 2012 so far.

In conclusion, I agree with everything Ballack said. Try to look at the matters from his point of view ( neutral) then you'll get what he meant.

Firstly, I'm not butthurt, and I'm not a fan of the England, never have been and never will be, so nice try though for starting off a debate with something entirely pointless and immature.

Addressing me as an England fan lol, thought the avatar and the username would have given away which national team I really support. England were right to defend because of the potency in France's attack, but a point is better than nothing. They still have two relatively "easy" (in comparison to the France game) to play, so they should be fine.

The wingers did their job, but they were poor attacking wise. Milner was erratic going forward, but he did his job defensively. The game plan was obvious, before the game even started, knowing Hodgson, who has always been known for setting up defensive strategies. Welbeck was one of England's stand-out players, rightfully showed why he started, offers great hold-up play and works his socks off. Shame that Young was anonymous, and couldn't supply him adequately.

I don't really care if it was boring or not, I'm not hear to criticise any times, and I was a neutral yesterday. I can't see it in a biased way, unless Italy is playing, of course. Like I said, no need to make these comments because every team every member on this site before has used the defensive system, so it makes their comments even more laughable. If Real Madrid go defensive, then why should England [or club team] play openly just for your entertainment? It doesn't work like that.

by halamadrid2 Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:09 pm

sportsczy wrote:You have to admit Sweden played horribly defensively and squandered a few golden chances.

Suedes have only themselves to blame here. You guys must beat England now. No Rooney still... so you have a chance.

They will park the bus like there's no tomorrow. But Ibra is the master at breaking that... complete opposite of Benzema.

yeah i am not going to lie, our fullbacks were hopeless, Swedish papers gave Marcus Olsson an earful so hopefully he never starts again

Those misses came back to haunt us in the end, didnt think we would concede, even before the game journalists asked about our poor defending on crosses/set pieces, Hamren got pissed he obviously couldn't change it

when we play England they will have a field day, their wingers>>>>>ukraines we wont have an answer, at least Elmander will start tho

this is a must win game, hope we win and France so that we could get a draw against france and england forced to win against Ukraine

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