Robben has always been a really good player. I never understood the hate. He was great at Chelsea, but then he was made a peripheral player at Madrid. Once he left Madrid for Munich he quickly established himself as one of the best and most consistent wingers in the world. I think he's become a more reliable player in his preferred position on the wing at Bayern, compared with his Chelsea days where he was also used as a CAM.

The Franchise wrote:
Why is he not against those guys? Gil is talking about a Dutch All Time 11...so you can put the team however you like, theoretically.

Oh I just wonder how you'd play those 4 alltogether.

Btw I'm perfectly fine with your oppinion on Gullit. Maybe I'm a bit biased because he played for both Rotterdam and Eindhoven.

I actually wouldnt put Bergkamp in the all time 11 either, but if given a choice between him and Robben, it would be Bergkamp.

Without much thinking, I would insist on having Guillit, Van Basten, Cruyff, van Hanegem, Neeskens and Rijkaard in the team. That's 6, then a goalie...leaves 4 spaces I want to make a back 4 from..Stam, Koeman, Krol and a rightback I would have to think about. Sounds something like 4321.

as if anybody really cares what your all-time Netherlands first 11 looks like

Your just mad the balding diver isnt in it

yes

Hapless_Hans wrote:

Don't call me James wrote:I don't see anything new in Robben that I haven't seen since Chelsea days. He's always been this good. Injuries is the obvious answer but also maybe he was underrated by a lot of people then as opposed to now.

Again, I can't really judge what he did at Chelsea, but going by how his defensive contribution, teamplay and workrate have developed in the last 3 years playing for us I doubt very much that you're seeing right.

Then you didn't watch him properly at Chelsea or Madrid. He's been hard working pretty much his whole career. The only reason this myth exists is because of his selfishness on the ball earlier on in his career. It really doesn't equate to anything close to calling him lazy.

Robben is truly an outstanding winger, but I personally prefer unpredictable players who have a bit more creativity. I don't see that enough with him.

What I will say about Robben however is that the very fact that his opponents often know exactly what he's going to do and yet they still can't stop him is a testament to his ability as a footballer. That often separates the good from the great and he's in that latter category for sure.

Robben didn't defend AT ALL until 3 years ago at Bayern... that's not a myth at all.

sportsczy wrote:Robben didn't defend AT ALL until 3 years ago at Bayern... that's not a myth at all.

People are acting on here as if Robben wasn't close to being sold as a disappointment before Kroos got injured in early 2013

Robben simply has entered his peak years, he was not near the level he's right now compared to his Real Madrid/Chelsea defensively or offensively.

Stop. His peak was back in 09/10 so stop peddling the myth that he's somehow improved all of a sudden. Mourinho had no problem with his defensive workrate at Chelsea.

He's has always been this good. He's just scoring at a higher rate because of a role change. Goals ≠ performances.

"his peak waas in 09/10", I'm sorry Gil, let me tell you as a Bayern fan who has seen all those games those years that this is completely wrong.
His peak is right now. He's never been as good as right now, at least not for us. That's not debatable. Not that he was bad, or very different, but there is a difference. You're right that he was always good, and I'm not talking about skill etc. It's about the totality of him as a player.

I'll make a longer post detailing that and giving the reasons as to why I think that is later.

Well there's always the 12 man bench of all time Netherlands I suppose.

Robben did defend in the old days.

That Del Horno red card almost a decade ago vs Messi started with Robben tracking all the way back to near his own corner flag, having the situation under control before underestimating Messi who then stole the ball and was fouled by Del Horno.

Isolated incident for sure, but I dont agree he did nothing.

fouled by del Horno ? more like messi jumped in front of him and then faked an injury bro

Hapless_Hans wrote:"his peak waas in 09/10", I'm sorry Gil, let me tell you as a Bayern fan who has seen all those games those years that this is completely wrong.
His peak is right now. He's never been as good as right now, at least not for us. That's not debatable. Not that he was bad, or very different, but there is a difference. You're right that he was always good, and I'm not talking about skill etc. It's about the totality of him as a player.

I'll make a longer post detailing that and giving the reasons as to why I think that is later.

Agreed.

The "one trick pony" tag is funny because its like everyone already knows what he wants to do once he gets the ball on the right wing, but good luck trying to stop it. Incredible player. I certainly never expected him to reach this level tbh.

Blue Barrett wrote:The "one trick pony" tag is funny because its like everyone already knows what he wants to do once he gets the ball on the right wing, but good luck trying to stop it. Incredible player. I certainly never expected him to reach this level tbh.

Exactly. Tbh I thought he was on his way out back in 2012-2013 when he got injuried . But he came back stronger and had an amazing 2nd half season + that goal in the CL final
Within 2 years this guy went through missing a 1vs1 in a WC final , missing a crucial PK against Dortmund , missing a crucial PK against Chelsea in a CL final but he survived : Respect

OK... so he made 1 or 2 random good defensive plays here and there. So when i said no defense "AT ALL"... i mean 99,9% of the time.

I mean, you even saw Ronaldo track back here and there a couple of years ago and i thought 2012-2013 was the year where he was completely absent on defense.

There's also passing to teammates, making runs without the ball and chaining runs one after another... Robben didn't pass and was extremely inconsistent at the others.

What he did do great, and has always done great, is be a menace with the ball at his feet and have a great left footed shot. He always had those and at a WC level.

gtfo Sportz exaggerating like always.

it's absolutely true... heck, the Bayern/German fans here are telling you that he was one dimensional and disappointing until Kroos got injured in 2013. With the prospect of being shipped out, the light bulb went on.

If you turn Robben's nationality 90 degrees to the right Spots would be praising him 100%.

He has improved so much after heyneck took charge. Mainly his defensive game which was no where near like this.

sportsczy wrote:OK... so he made 1 or 2 random good defensive plays here and there. So when i said no defense "AT ALL"... i mean 99,9% of the time.

I mean, you even saw Ronaldo track back here and there a couple of years ago and i thought 2012-2013 was the year where he was completely absent on defense.

There's also passing to teammates, making runs without the ball and chaining runs one after another... Robben didn't pass and was extremely inconsistent at the others.

What he did do great, and has always done great, is be a menace with the ball at his feet and have a great left footed shot. He always had those and at a WC level.

I wanted to respond to your post in the 1st thread which I found in the 1st post which I frankly thought was ludicrous, ignorant and biased but I chose not to because of the dirty comment you used to end it.

But just to correct you, while I do see Robben improving in various aspects off the ball performance has always been his forte. I believe he does have one of the best runs in Modern football and has made those runs for a decade now.

I have rarely seen someone make such consistent good runs with pace and general intelligence of play off the ball. Since we won't agree and I find your view such ludicrous I will leave it at that

The Franchise wrote:I actually wouldnt put Bergkamp in the all time 11 either, but if given a choice between him and Robben, it would be Bergkamp.

Without much thinking, I would insist on having Guillit, Van Basten, Cruyff, van Hanegem, Neeskens and Rijkaard in the team. That's 6, then a goalie...leaves 4 spaces I want to make a back 4 from..Stam, Koeman, Krol and a rightback I would have to think about. Sounds something like 4321.

I was really surprised by your views. I was recently debating with some knowledgable Dutch fans if Robben is the best since Johan and there is a clash if he is the best we had or is it Marco Van Basten.

You are possibly the first guy I hear mention Gullit ahead of Robben. While I do admire Ruud as a football I thought he was never near Robben's level, rather quite below to be even compared. I wouldn't debate this as I initially thought you were joking.

Dennis has a lot of fans and rightly. He was a great player and I still remember his goal against off the wonderful De Boer pass but he did not have a major effect of the NT for a consistent period of time. His achievements at Arsenal are good but falls quite short of CHL Glory. I do think Robben eclipses Dennis comfortably.

With Marco, while Robben has had possible a more successful and longer club career, it is difficult to compare as Marco's time was cut short. But Van Basten was a great player and most importantly he helped Oranje win the Euro. For Robben to eclipse him undoubtedly I believe he has to win a competition with the Dutch NT which looks difficult.

Okay I will be honest, possibly because I am a Robben fan I will possibly highlight his strengths more. But I feel he has been the best player in the world and comfortably for the last 1.5 years atleast.

I think he has improved in a lot of aspects. I was watching the Latvia game and the thing which struck me and which I have looked at Bayern for a while is his vision. Arjen was making fabulous plays while being double and tripled marked. His vision has been outstanding. I saw Messi-Iniesta level plays(in their peak) and not now from him. That is one side of his which was not that great IMO.

That coupled with his pace, technique and experience has helped him mature. Another important aspect was Pep. Having a coach supporting a player makes a huge difference. Even when Arjen was Bayern's best player he was benched because he was not German like Kroos or Muller. Under LVG from 2009-2011 he was amazing and having a coach back you works wonders.

Another general aspect of him his general leadership and team-play. Not just defensive ability but overall, he came across as aloof. Now he wants to take throws and this guy has real good vision and genuine creativity which makes some danger from any throw of his near the opponents goal. That with his drive has helped him.

He was always good off the ball but his on the ball play has improved as he wants more of the ball and wants to be involved. I think he should be shifted to a ST/CAM role as he is being wasted as winger IMO.

I also thing given his consistent big match performances since 2009 apart from a couple of misses in important matches, he should be remembered as a footballing legend.

IMO with his mental mindset, being benched because of not being German and the smear campaign by the German Media when they attacked everything from his celebration to playing style and finally the misses and being booed by your club fans, and to come back from all that and be the amazing guy he is, tells us a lot.

He took the PK against Dortmund and buried it. Football has rarely seen such a mentally strong player and such a big game player.

IMO he is one the most unique and greatest footballers ever, certainly the best in the last 1.5 years as well as was the best in the WC