tbf he did get two 'assists' in that game ^^

The Franchise wrote:

Le Samourai wrote:In my honest opinion Messi could score 3 goals a season and still be the best player on the planet.

See his performance in the 5-0 classico for more details.

Someone who gets it.

Messi's goals are not what makes him the best in the world. I dispise this stats field world we are in right now.

People just dont seem to realise the damage players can do without ever recording an assist or goal in a game.

not too many people can understand this logic in goallegacy.

Sure, but those werent even the hardest and most destructive things he did in the game. The overall destabilization he causes to defences, the attention he draws, the danger he causes...much greater overall impact.

The attention he draws though is because of his goal scoring instinct. I assure you if he were to average 3 goals a season there is no chance teams would target him as much as they would now.

To answer the OP's question... Messi is still the best.

The Franchise wrote:Sure, but those werent even the hardest and most destructive things he did in the game. The overall destabilization he causes to defences, the attention he draws, the danger he causes...much greater overall impact.

whats the point all of this if you are not complete player,if you are not going
to score a goal from 40yard out from 1000 tries, every thing is just useless..
not to mention 100 stepovers before dribble a single player is more important..goallegacy logic..

The assists were part of a larger process than just him making a pass.

If you look at that game, look at how much space there was behind our defense simply because he drew our centre- backs out position.I mean this is one of the biggest reasons I like Benzema so much, he does this as good as anyone else other than Messi.Creates Space for Ronaldo to run into.

If you look at the weakside space he creates when he moves to one side.

Honestly it's forgivable that not many people understand it, concepts such as dribble penetration and weakside kicking in basketball make it much easier to understand.

Those assists didn't need to be assists, they probably wouldn't be if someone made an extra pass.

white_star wrote:So anytime a player scores a hat trick we should make a complete player thread about them, ya that's a great idea!!!!

Guy saying cr7 will have great euros is going to be :vagi:

Ronaldo today broke the record of most hat tricks in one La Liga season. He has scored 7.

Beautiful Football wrote:

The Franchise wrote:Sure, but those werent even the hardest and most destructive things he did in the game. The overall destabilization he causes to defences, the attention he draws, the danger he causes...much greater overall impact.

whats the point all of this if you are not complete player,if you are not going
to score a goal from 40yard out from 1000 tries, every thing is just useless..
not to mention 100 stepovers before dribble a single player is more important..goallegacy logic..

Yeah....nobody said that, comprehend better.

Messi doesnt just get attention because he scores goals...Iniesta never scores and he draws untold attention..same as Zidane.

They get attention because of the overall threat they provide and what they can do.

Think about it.

Of course goal scoring isn't the only reason.

Similarly when Alonso gets shut down, Real Madrid don't function as a unit properly.

But has Iniesta ever been targeted by the opposing team as much as Messi does?

Albiceleste wrote:]

stunt wrote:
Messi has such great ball control because he is short.

:lol!:

Do you honestly believe that if Messi was 180 cm tall he would have the ball controll he currently has?

Of course he is extremely talented, but his natural physique also determines a factor in his playstyle.

EarlyPrototype wrote:Of course goal scoring isn't the only reason.

Similarly when Alonso gets shut down, Real Madrid don't function as a unit properly.

But has Iniesta ever been targeted by the opposing team as much as Messi does?

i don't think so..but many team target xaviesta...

but most team target messi first for obvious reason..

Albiceleste wrote:It's a myth that Messi doesn't score a different variety of goals, thankfully only delusionals like stunt believe that, Messi has scored ~15% (31) of his 230 odd Barcelona goals from outside the box. He also has around 40 goals with his weak foot and has scored 3 headers this season, and 2 free kick goals in the league, I believe that is Ronaldos tally as well. Myth busted? Myth busted

I never said Messi doesn't score a different variety of goals. I only said Ronaldo's goals have more variety.

Go watch all Messi's goals in the league. Then watch Ronaldo's. Then come and tell me which you think has more variety.

EarlyPrototype wrote:Of course goal scoring isn't the only reason.

Similarly when Alonso gets shut down, Real Madrid don't function as a unit properly.

But has Iniesta ever been targeted by the opposing team as much as Messi does?

Of course not, but thats because Messi is on his team..not to mention, just not as dangerous generally.

But look at Ronaldinho, people used to swarm at him and he wasnt half the goalscorer Messi was.

When someone dribbles 2 players and is running directly to goal, it doesnt matter if they scored 3 goals or 63 goals, other defenders are doing to swarm.

stunt wrote:

Albiceleste wrote:It's a myth that Messi doesn't score a different variety of goals, thankfully only delusionals like stunt believe that, Messi has scored ~15% (31) of his 230 odd Barcelona goals from outside the box. He also has around 40 goals with his weak foot and has scored 3 headers this season, and 2 free kick goals in the league, I believe that is Ronaldos tally as well. Myth busted? Myth busted

I never said Messi doesn't score a different variety of goals. I only said Ronaldo's goals have more variety.

Go watch all Messi's goals in the league. Then watch Ronaldo's. Then come and tell me which you think has more variety.

why only league, what about in all competition..i am sure in all competition messi score more different variety of goals.

Instead of looking at CR's positives, let's look at the negatives instead. Because it looks like everyone already posted his positives. I think that's good way to find out how complete he is. Then we can compare this list to Messi's (seeing as to be the most complete he has to be more complete thean Messi).

Also let's take out anything to do with the system they play in. This is purely about the individual.

Few things from the top of my head. Ronaldo doesn't have very good defensive work rate. Offensively i can't really think of too much.

Although i can think of a few for Messi. Messi is not very strong. Yes he has incredible balance, but he is not very strong. He's not tall so he can't get to headers very well compared to others. In addition i don't think he can header too well but he doesn't really get the opportunity to show us his heading skills too often. (i know some will bring up the headers against Yanited). I don't think he excels at long shots tbh.

Messi is a player for the ages

However, is ronaldo the most complete goal scoring threat?

I think yes, but hes lost alot since he left united and seems unable to drible (or maybe thats because he is in a more technical league right now).

If ronnie had all his attributes + marcello's driblling he would be a goal scorer for the ages

The Franchise wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:Of course goal scoring isn't the only reason.

Similarly when Alonso gets shut down, Real Madrid don't function as a unit properly.

But has Iniesta ever been targeted by the opposing team as much as Messi does?

Of course not, but thats because Messi is on his team..not to mention, just not as dangerous generally.

But look at Ronaldinho, people used to swarm at him and he wasnt half the goalscorer Messi was.

When someone dribbles 2 players and is running directly to goal, it doesnt matter if they scored 3 goals or 63 goals, other defenders are doing to swarm.

I get your point. The thing is though he may still be the most dangerous player on the Barca team even if he didn't score as many goals, but its the fact that he scores so many it separates him from the rest.

With Ronaldinho he used to create space and chances and open the game up...but with Messi he not only does that, but he tops it off with 50+ goals a season.

The Verminator wrote: Offensively i can't really think of too much.

Messi is not very strong.

. I don't think he excels at long shots tbh.

He cant dribble and cant pass to an elite level.

Messi isnt strong? I barely ever see any situation where his lack of strength is exposed...clearly, either he is strong or strength isnt important.

I am sure someone in this thread already posted how many goals he scored out the box..its probably more than Cristiano.

EarlyPrototype wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

EarlyPrototype wrote:Of course goal scoring isn't the only reason.

Similarly when Alonso gets shut down, Real Madrid don't function as a unit properly.

But has Iniesta ever been targeted by the opposing team as much as Messi does?

Of course not, but thats because Messi is on his team..not to mention, just not as dangerous generally.

But look at Ronaldinho, people used to swarm at him and he wasnt half the goalscorer Messi was.

When someone dribbles 2 players and is running directly to goal, it doesnt matter if they scored 3 goals or 63 goals, other defenders are doing to swarm.

I get your point. The thing is though he may still be the most dangerous player on the Barca team even if he didn't score as many goals, but its the fact that he scores so many it separates him from the rest.

With Ronaldinho he used to create space and chances and open the game up...but with Messi he not only does that, but he tops it off with 50+ goals a season.

Yes I agree, but I still think if he scored less he would demand the same attention.

And agree about Ronaldinho, not saying he is better than Messi, just saying he created similar situations where teams swarmed him, just like Messi and it wasnt because he scored loads of goals.

The Verminator wrote:Instead of looking at CR's positives, let's look at the negatives instead. Because it looks like everyone already posted his positives. I think that's good way to find out how complete he is. Then we can compare this list to Messi's (seeing as to be the most complete he has to be more complete thean Messi).

Also let's take out anything to do with the system they play in. This is purely about the individual.

Few things from the top of my head. Ronaldo doesn't have very good defensive work rate. Offensively i can't really think of too much.

Although i can think of a few for Messi. Messi is not very strong. Yes he has incredible balance, but he is not very strong. He's not tall so he can't get to headers very well compared to others. In addition i don't think he can header too well but he doesn't really get the opportunity to show us his heading skills too often. (i know some will bring up the headers against Yanited). I don't think he excels at long shots tbh.

i know football is a team sports...still if you want to compare their ability
here is my opinion

passing: messi

Creativity: messi

Agility: messi

top speed: ronaldo

acceleration: messi

strength: ronaldo

shotpower: ronaldo

longshot: ronaldo

dribbling: messi by miles

teamwork: messi

workrate: messi

vision: messi

End product: messi

weakfoot: ronaldo

header: ronaldo

jump: ronaldo

effective player: messi

big game player: messi

finishing: messi

versatility: messi
see messi is the winner and more overall complete football player.
in almost all technical ability messi is better ronaldo is better in physicial aspect of the game.

as for system messi is best in tiki taka ronaldo in counter attacking team.
but i am sure messi will be great in counter attacking football because almost all of barca counter attack go through messi...not sure about ronaldo
in tiki taka..my opinion he wouldn't fit in tikitaka..

Beautiful Football wrote:

The Verminator wrote:Instead of looking at CR's positives, let's look at the negatives instead. Because it looks like everyone already posted his positives. I think that's good way to find out how complete he is. Then we can compare this list to Messi's (seeing as to be the most complete he has to be more complete thean Messi).

Also let's take out anything to do with the system they play in. This is purely about the individual.

Few things from the top of my head. Ronaldo doesn't have very good defensive work rate. Offensively i can't really think of too much.

Although i can think of a few for Messi. Messi is not very strong. Yes he has incredible balance, but he is not very strong. He's not tall so he can't get to headers very well compared to others. In addition i don't think he can header too well but he doesn't really get the opportunity to show us his heading skills too often. (i know some will bring up the headers against Yanited). I don't think he excels at long shots tbh.

i know football is a team sports...still if you want to compare their ability
here is my opinion

passing: messi

Creativity: messi

Agility: messi

top speed: ronaldo

acceleration: messi

strength: ronaldo

shotpower: ronaldo

longshot: ronaldo

dribbling: messi by miles

teamwork: messi

workrate: messi

vision: messi

End product: messi

weakfoot: ronaldo

header: ronaldo

jump: ronaldo

effective player: messi

big game player: messi

finishing: messi

versatility: messi
see messi is the winner and more overall complete football player.
in almost all technical ability messi is better ronaldo is better in physicial aspect of the game.

as for system messi is best in tiki taka ronaldo in counter attacking team.
but i am sure messi will be great in counter attacking football because almost all of barca counter attack go through messi...not sure about ronaldo
in tiki taka..my opinion he wouldn't fit in tikitaka..

There is only one team that can properly play tiki taka though, even spain cant replicate it.

All teams can easily switch into counter attacking.

Its funny because the worse a team is the more valuable ronaldo can become, while for messi its the opposite.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

Beautiful Football wrote:

The Verminator wrote:Instead of looking at CR's positives, let's look at the negatives instead. Because it looks like everyone already posted his positives. I think that's good way to find out how complete he is. Then we can compare this list to Messi's (seeing as to be the most complete he has to be more complete thean Messi).

Also let's take out anything to do with the system they play in. This is purely about the individual.

Few things from the top of my head. Ronaldo doesn't have very good defensive work rate. Offensively i can't really think of too much.

Although i can think of a few for Messi. Messi is not very strong. Yes he has incredible balance, but he is not very strong. He's not tall so he can't get to headers very well compared to others. In addition i don't think he can header too well but he doesn't really get the opportunity to show us his heading skills too often. (i know some will bring up the headers against Yanited). I don't think he excels at long shots tbh.

i know football is a team sports...still if you want to compare their ability
here is my opinion

passing: messi

Creativity: messi

Agility: messi

top speed: ronaldo

acceleration: messi

strength: ronaldo

shotpower: ronaldo

longshot: ronaldo

dribbling: messi by miles

teamwork: messi

workrate: messi

vision: messi

End product: messi

weakfoot: ronaldo

header: ronaldo

jump: ronaldo

effective player: messi

big game player: messi

finishing: messi

versatility: messi
see messi is the winner and more overall complete football player.
in almost all technical ability messi is better ronaldo is better in physicial aspect of the game.

as for system messi is best in tiki taka ronaldo in counter attacking team.
but i am sure messi will be great in counter attacking football because almost all of barca counter attack go through messi...not sure about ronaldo
in tiki taka..my opinion he wouldn't fit in tikitaka..

There is only one team that can properly play tiki taka though, even spain cant replicate it.

All teams can easily switch into counter attacking.

Its funny because the worse a team is the more valuable ronaldo can become, while for messi its the opposite.

how is that can you explain..

billionmillion wrote:So shooting hard means you are most complete? its just one skill: shooting the ball (free kicks, penlties, screamers = shooting). what else skills he has so we can call him complete player?

Anyway congratulations for hat-trick

Also got a nice assist. Nice try though.

Beautiful Football wrote:wall of text

Because Ronaldo attributes are more suited to a team that doesnt control the game and because the other team is attacking he will have alot of space to work with. While messi truly shines when there is small spaces and the need for someone to pass the siege.

This is my view atleast, the weakest team ive seen messi in though is Arg which isnt a bad team at all.

billionmillion wrote:

paperbackwriter wrote:

billionmillion wrote:

stunt wrote:

billionmillion wrote:So shooting hard means you are most complete? its just one skill: shooting the ball (free kicks, penlties, screamers = shooting). what else skills he has so we can call him complete player?

Anyway congratulations for hat-trick

He's a good passer. Has about the same amount of assists as Messi on La Liga this season (Messi is a good passer right?).

Shoots well as you said.

His dribble is certainly above average.

He's fast. One of the fastest players with and without the ball (if not the fastest).

Has great positioning (that's why he scores so much tap ins).

He's tall and and can jump high so he's good at heading.

Can use both feet.

I don't see what he lacks? Sure he wastes shots at the goal and he misses 1v1s with the keeper frequently. But nobody's perfect.

How many assists CR have?
Messi playing only with his left foot scored 61 goals and around 30 assists. CR most complete player scored 52 goals and i think 15 assists. How he is most complete?

CR7 is as good away as home, with 50 % of his goals scored on both sides of the fence this season. Messi is less than half the player he's at the camp nou when playing away from home. How's that for most complete?

Ronaldo: 20 goals home, 20 goals away.
Messi: 28 goals at home, 11 away.

Who cares about la liga, you must include CL goals too. when messi really cares he plays at full strength and scores a lot. thats why he CL top scorer 4 season is a row. In la liga he just rests - he doesnt even run


Anyway Messi is more complete forward.

His acceleration>CR acceleration
His agility>CR agility
His running with the ball>>>>CR running with the ball (specially in tight places)
His dribbling>>CR dribbling
His decision making at scoring>CR's
His finishing abilities>CR

CR speed (long distance)>>Messi's (Not needed much. acceleration>speed any day)
CR shoot power>>Messi's (needed much, its truly one thing that CR is above messi)
CR heading>Messi's heading (just because CR is tall)

The only useful thing that CR is above Messi is shoot power

First of all, genius, its SHOT POWER, not shoot power, get a dictionary.
Acceleration > Speed? Maybe, sometimes. But honestly, ronaldo has just as much acceleration as messi, believe it or not.

Messi is just as good as a finisher as ronaldo.

Ok, since you listed things messis good at, and said ronaldo has "shoot power" only. Ronaldo has much better positioning, and no, he is not better just because he is taller, he jumps much higher and has a more powerful header.

Before the messi wankers come kill me I do think messi is better but honestly, not by as much as people make it.