Re: Premier League teams should avoid José Mourinho

by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:10 pm

El Pipita wrote:How many times do Mourinho have to say he's happy at Madrid and want to remain here until his contract is expired ?
Is it wrong for him to express his love for EPL ? the guy can't lie to press who consistently are asking him if he'll comeback to EPL, what do you expect him to say ? " no, i'll stay in Madrid for the rest of my life"

Maybe it's me being old school, but when you work for an organization, specially one as big as Real Madrid, you have no future. Your only future is the organization you work for. You dont go around and repeatedly hammer to the press that you want to go back to england. If they ask you about your future, you answer "Real Madrid is my only future". You dont say one thing to english medias, and then another to spanish medias. I find it very disrespectful. If it was a player saying that he wants to play somewhere else that much, we would all be saying "GTFO of Madrid, bring in some canteras, they would die for this shirt" and we would question his commitment. This is exactly the same thing.

by Die Borussen Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:16 pm

The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:and by the way franchise chelsea sux now and sucked before mou arrived

inter sux now and sucked before mou arrived

porto was nothing and was something when mou coached and is nothing until now at least for me

suddenly all the success came when mou coached and ALL you have to say is blame him cause the teams fail to succeed after he leaves..
hate much?

And what argues what I said how?

I didnt say he didnt do well for them, I said he left them in a mess. Which again, is true.

yes but they were a mess before he went there... so basicaly he went he won things and left the team the way it was before he arrives..

r u guys saying one of the reasons teams should avoid mou is cause they will fail after the success they will have with him or what???? cause that sounds stupid rlly

by The Franchise Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:17 pm

Kamina, instead of buying all those old players for Chelsea why didnt he mix it up? Why was Kezman bought? Why not buy some players they can use for 5, 6, seasons or so...look how old that team is now..

Same for Inter, Milito, Lucio, Etoo and co, all super players, but none of them 25 or under so they can be used for years and years.

Nobody here is saying he didnt do a good short term job for either club, the problem is, when he left, the squads were past their best and needed major work.

He leaves before these things happen and they fall apart, so he hasnt proven himself as a long term success...only a superb short term option.

No point us talking Madrid, because he is still there and we cant look into the future.

by The Franchise Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:20 pm

deadrave wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:and by the way franchise chelsea sux now and sucked before mou arrived

inter sux now and sucked before mou arrived

porto was nothing and was something when mou coached and is nothing until now at least for me

suddenly all the success came when mou coached and ALL you have to say is blame him cause the teams fail to succeed after he leaves..
hate much?

And what argues what I said how?

I didnt say he didnt do well for them, I said he left them in a mess. Which again, is true.

yes but they were a mess before he went there... so basicaly he went he won things and left the team the way it was before he arrives..

r u guys saying one of the reasons teams should avoid mou is cause they will fail after the success they will have with him or what???? cause that sounds stupid rlly

No. I am saying he hasnt never stayed anywhere for long so we dont know if he can bring long term sucess and rebuild a squad he created with new players.

If EPL teams understand that and still want him, then they should get him.

But if they want long term success and someone who has proven they are willing to try and build and rebuild a team then maybe they should think twice.

by Die Borussen Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:21 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
El Pipita wrote:How many times do Mourinho have to say he's happy at Madrid and want to remain here until his contract is expired ?
Is it wrong for him to express his love for EPL ? the guy can't lie to press who consistently are asking him if he'll comeback to EPL, what do you expect him to say ? " no, i'll stay in Madrid for the rest of my life"

Maybe it's me being old school, but when you work for an organization, specially one as big as Real Madrid, you have no future. Your only future is the organization you work for. You dont go around and repeatedly hammer to the press that you want to go back to england. If they ask you about your future, you answer "Real Madrid is my only future". You dont say one thing to english medias, and then another to spanish medias. I find it very disrespectful. If it was a player saying that he wants to play somewhere else that much, we would all be saying "GTFO of Madrid, bring in some canteras, they would die for this shirt" and we would question his commitment. This is exactly the same thing.

its very obvious at least for me that madrid arent looking that way anymore, and the only thing i see is
them
us (RM) trying to find a way,IN any way to "win" things either that includes "pepe" or "mou"
disgraceful or not
success > embaressment,disgraceful things,die for this shit..etc

and success leads mou's way and only..

by Babun Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:27 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
El Pipita wrote:How many times do Mourinho have to say he's happy at Madrid and want to remain here until his contract is expired ?
Is it wrong for him to express his love for EPL ? the guy can't lie to press who consistently are asking him if he'll comeback to EPL, what do you expect him to say ? " no, i'll stay in Madrid for the rest of my life"

Maybe it's me being old school, but when you work for an organization, specially one as big as Real Madrid, you have no future. Your only future is the organization you work for. You dont go around and repeatedly hammer to the press that you want to go back to england. If they ask you about your future, you answer "Real Madrid is my only future". You dont say one thing to english medias, and then another to spanish medias. I find it very disrespectful. If it was a player saying that he wants to play somewhere else that much, we would all be saying "GTFO of Madrid, bring in some canteras, they would die for this shirt" and we would question his commitment. This is exactly the same thing.

Are we in kindergarden? eco smile

Look, Real Madrid isn't known for keeping managers long term. If I were Mourinho I'd keep other options open, just in case. If he doesn't win La liga or another trophy this season he might be sacked although he did his job properly. Same story with Bayern. Why would you expect him to be like a puppy to a club which exchanges coaches like gloves? eco smile

We hired him to make us a top team again and eventually win something. So far, it went well from my perspective. You sound like a jealous boyfriend who mocks his girl whenever she talks with aother guy but flirt with every other girl without a care. By the way, that statement coming from you sounds to me 10 times as funny eco smile

The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:and by the way franchise chelsea sux now and sucked before mou arrived

inter sux now and sucked before mou arrived

porto was nothing and was something when mou coached and is nothing until now at least for me

suddenly all the success came when mou coached and ALL you have to say is blame him cause the teams fail to succeed after he leaves..
hate much?

And what argues what I said how?

I didnt say he didnt do well for them, I said he left them in a mess. Which again, is true.

yes but they were a mess before he went there... so basicaly he went he won things and left the team the way it was before he arrives..

r u guys saying one of the reasons teams should avoid mou is cause they will fail after the success they will have with him or what???? cause that sounds stupid rlly

No. I am saying he hasnt never stayed anywhere for long so we dont know if he can bring long term sucess and rebuild a squad he created with new players.

If EPL teams understand that and still want him, then they should get him.

But if they want long term success and someone who has proven they are willing to try and build and rebuild a team then maybe they should think twice.

If you read my answer carefully then you'd knew that he started a legacy at Chelski only and wasn't able to finish it. Your views are utopical in regards to Abramovitch. He wanted immediate success. How was he going to win things with kids? eco smile

He took care of the first team first. You can integrate kids later. I mean they didn't even have a proper youth system eco smile

by Die Borussen Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:29 pm

The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:and by the way franchise chelsea sux now and sucked before mou arrived

inter sux now and sucked before mou arrived

porto was nothing and was something when mou coached and is nothing until now at least for me

suddenly all the success came when mou coached and ALL you have to say is blame him cause the teams fail to succeed after he leaves..
hate much?

And what argues what I said how?

I didnt say he didnt do well for them, I said he left them in a mess. Which again, is true.

yes but they were a mess before he went there... so basicaly he went he won things and left the team the way it was before he arrives..

r u guys saying one of the reasons teams should avoid mou is cause they will fail after the success they will have with him or what???? cause that sounds stupid rlly

No. I am saying he hasnt never stayed anywhere for long so we dont know if he can bring long term sucess and rebuild a squad he created with new players.

If EPL teams understand that and still want him, then they should get him.

But if they want long term success and someone who has proven they are willing to try and build and rebuild a team then maybe they should think twice.

hmmm. im answering with a question how many coachs do you know out there that can bring you long term success? cause as far as im concernd fergie is locked so is wenger and guardiola..
maybe short term success is the only success they can get;
just sayin

by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:33 pm

deadrave wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:
El Pipita wrote:How many times do Mourinho have to say he's happy at Madrid and want to remain here until his contract is expired ?
Is it wrong for him to express his love for EPL ? the guy can't lie to press who consistently are asking him if he'll comeback to EPL, what do you expect him to say ? " no, i'll stay in Madrid for the rest of my life"

Maybe it's me being old school, but when you work for an organization, specially one as big as Real Madrid, you have no future. Your only future is the organization you work for. You dont go around and repeatedly hammer to the press that you want to go back to england. If they ask you about your future, you answer "Real Madrid is my only future". You dont say one thing to english medias, and then another to spanish medias. I find it very disrespectful. If it was a player saying that he wants to play somewhere else that much, we would all be saying "GTFO of Madrid, bring in some canteras, they would die for this shirt" and we would question his commitment. This is exactly the same thing.

its very obvious at least for me that madrid arent looking that way anymore, and the only thing i see is
them
us (RM) trying to find a way,IN any way to "win" things either that includes "pepe" or "mou"
disgraceful or not
success > embaressment,disgraceful things,die for this shit..etc

and success leads mou's way and only..

I disagree. We understood when we signed him that he was not necessarily the best fit, but we needed a winner to get trophies and such. We just never signed up for him eye gouging people, getting involved in players fights or making a full of himself and the club through insane rants. That's something that happened after facts, after we commit to stand by him and to help him through his time here, and we are doing just that.

by Pedram Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:34 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
El Pipita wrote:How many times do Mourinho have to say he's happy at Madrid and want to remain here until his contract is expired ?
Is it wrong for him to express his love for EPL ? the guy can't lie to press who consistently are asking him if he'll comeback to EPL, what do you expect him to say ? " no, i'll stay in Madrid for the rest of my life"

Maybe it's me being old school, but when you work for an organization, specially one as big as Real Madrid, you have no future. Your only future is the organization you work for. You dont go around and repeatedly hammer to the press that you want to go back to england. If they ask you about your future, you answer "Real Madrid is my only future". You dont say one thing to english medias, and then another to spanish medias. I find it very disrespectful. If it was a player saying that he wants to play somewhere else that much, we would all be saying "GTFO of Madrid, bring in some canteras, they would die for this shirt" and we would question his commitment. This is exactly the same thing.

I guess Mourinho is just a bit outspoken with the media. it's true that he should respect Madrid and do not talk about another club when he has a contract with us but i don't have problem hearing what he has in his mind.

A word is just a word, yeah he can be like this and deny the fact that he loves EPL, but it isn't true as we all know. what's important is that he's sticking to his contract or at least till Real Madrid win something important.

by Le Samourai Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:35 pm

Really Nick?

Because I didn't hear anyone telling Raul GTFO when he said he dreamt of Milan.

No I;m not comparing Mou to Raul......I'm simply saying it's natural for people to have dreams and to want to do other things.

I don't see why he should be scrutinized for something he basically made clear in the first place.

by free_cat Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:38 pm

The article points out different facts that are often avoided when assessing Jose's job.

However, I would still say that every english club should want him except ManU. They have success regularly, but the rest don't, so even if he wastes a couple of 100 milions to buy old players, makes enemies with everybody, and then leaves in 2-3 seasons leaving the team as bad or worse than before he came; that is a good tradeoff if he manages to win 2-3 big titles in that time for those teams.

by Mr Nick09 Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:43 pm

Kamina wrote:
Are we in kindergarden?
Look, Real Madrid isn't known for keeping managers long term. If I were Mourinho I'd keep other options open, just in case. If he doesn't win La liga or another trophy this season he might be sacked although he did his job properly. Same story with Bayern. Why would you expect him to be like a puppy to a club which exchanges coaches like gloves?
We hired him to make us a top team again and eventually win something. So far, it went well from my perspective. You sound like a jealous boyfriend who mocks his girl whenever she talks with aother guy but flirt with every other girl without a care. By the way, that statement coming from you sounds to me 10 times as funny

This is not a boyfriend or girlfriend situation, nothing like that, this is a business relationship. And i may argue that there is much more than "business" involved because in football it's not just about the money. Every fan, every week put a bit of his heart and soul into the team.

Is he right to keep his options open? yeah sure, but why not do it privately? You guys jump of excitement when you read him saying that he will stay here for a very long time, but when he mentions leaving, it doesnt bother you? he is right? The club made major strides to reshuffle things around him, so why be insecure? I would tell you that if it wasnt for the eye gouging and all the uefacelona nonsense, his job would be in no danger. And not even once in those rumors i have heard about Madrid wanting to replace him, it's all about him leaving.

Like i said, i have my principles, and i will stick by them. A Real madrid coach that so openly and with so much insistence speaks about coaching somewhere else and leaving is being disrespectful. This is not an analysis of the mission for which he was brought at madrid.

by Babun Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:53 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:
Kamina wrote:
Are we in kindergarden?
Look, Real Madrid isn't known for keeping managers long term. If I were Mourinho I'd keep other options open, just in case. If he doesn't win La liga or another trophy this season he might be sacked although he did his job properly. Same story with Bayern. Why would you expect him to be like a puppy to a club which exchanges coaches like gloves?
We hired him to make us a top team again and eventually win something. So far, it went well from my perspective. You sound like a jealous boyfriend who mocks his girl whenever she talks with aother guy but flirt with every other girl without a care. By the way, that statement coming from you sounds to me 10 times as funny

This is not a boyfriend or girlfriend situation, nothing like that, this is a business relationship. And i may argue that there is much more than "business" involved because in football it's not just about the money. Every fan, every week put a bit of his heart and soul into the team.

Is he right to keep his options open? yeah sure, but why not do it privately? You guys jump of excitement when you read him saying that he will stay here for a very long time, but when he mentions leaving, it doesnt bother you? he is right? The club made major strides to reshuffle things around him, so why be insecure? I would tell you that if it wasnt for the eye gouging and all the uefacelona nonsense, his job would be in no danger. And not even once in those rumors i have heard about Madrid wanting to replace him, it's all about him leaving.

Like i said, i have my principles, and i will stick by them. A Real madrid coach that so openly and with so much insistence speaks about coaching somewhere else and leaving is being disrespectful. This is not an analysis of the mission for which he was brought at madrid.

by S32TABLANCA Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:55 pm

I think the article is crap, doesnt give enough elaboration on reasons, but I will admit I find it unsettling when Mou talks about his future like its so obvious. He doesnt do it so much anymore, but I agree he should have some more respect.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:17 am

deadrave wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
deadrave wrote:and by the way franchise chelsea sux now and sucked before mou arrived

inter sux now and sucked before mou arrived

porto was nothing and was something when mou coached and is nothing until now at least for me

suddenly all the success came when mou coached and ALL you have to say is blame him cause the teams fail to succeed after he leaves..
hate much?

And what argues what I said how?

I didnt say he didnt do well for them, I said he left them in a mess. Which again, is true.

yes but they were a mess before he went there... so basicaly he went he won things and left the team the way it was before he arrives..

r u guys saying one of the reasons teams should avoid mou is cause they will fail after the success they will have with him or what???? cause that sounds stupid rlly

No. I am saying he hasnt never stayed anywhere for long so we dont know if he can bring long term sucess and rebuild a squad he created with new players.

If EPL teams understand that and still want him, then they should get him.

But if they want long term success and someone who has proven they are willing to try and build and rebuild a team then maybe they should think twice.

hmmm. im answering with a question how many coachs do you know out there that can bring you long term success? cause as far as im concernd fergie is locked so is wenger and guardiola..
maybe short term success is the only success they can get;
just sayin

There are loads of coaches, you just named the more well known.

Short term success followed by complete distruction isnt what anyone wants.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:19 am

Nick said an intresting thing before also.

If players were as noncommittal to Madrid as Mourinho was, many people would want that player out citing a lack of loyalty.

How comes its okay for Mourinho to not say anything?

by Mr Nick09 Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:24 am

deadrave wrote:

hmmm. im answering with a question how many coachs do you know out there that can bring you long term success? cause as far as im concernd fergie is locked so is wenger and guardiola..
maybe short term success is the only success they can get;
just sayin

That's a very narrow sighted view of things. SAF, Wenger or Guardiola didnt just magically become long term coach. It's a relationship with the clubs they work for that they nurtured overtime. Surely clubs are not that patient now, but it doesnt mean that you cant find a coach out there that fits your team to a t, and stand by him to create something long term. If pellegrini had received 5% of the support Mourinho has from Perez, he would be in his 3rd year of coaching with Madrid now.

by Le Samourai Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:26 am

That's true Nick......but I don't see why you're blaming Mou for that here.

He made clear from the get go that he wasn't in it for the long haul......why are you now criticizing him for saying he's leaving when his contracts up?

by Pedram Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:29 am

The Franchise wrote:Nick said an intresting thing before also.

If players were as noncommittal to Madrid as Mourinho was, many people would want that player out citing a lack of loyalty.

How comes its okay for Mourinho to not say anything?

Because Mou has been saying it before he came to Real Madrid. surely if Real Madrid had any problem with this they wouldn't sign him.

For Madrid success is more important than prestige, i think that much is obvious.

by The Franchise Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:38 am

El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Nick said an intresting thing before also.

If players were as noncommittal to Madrid as Mourinho was, many people would want that player out citing a lack of loyalty.

How comes its okay for Mourinho to not say anything?

Because Mou has been saying it before he came to Real Madrid. surely if Real Madrid had any problem with this they wouldn't sign him.

For Madrid success is more important than prestige, i think that much is obvious.

But how many of you guys were insisting before he was coming to you for the long haul, he was going to build something, he was going to be there for years and years? Now, its no problem for you? You dont mind and arent dissapointed?

success is more important than prestige...also more important than morality, otherwise you wouldnt put up with the antics he does, but thats another debate really.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:42 am

El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Nick said an intresting thing before also.

If players were as noncommittal to Madrid as Mourinho was, many people would want that player out citing a lack of loyalty.

How comes its okay for Mourinho to not say anything?

Because Mou has been saying it before he came to Real Madrid. surely if Real Madrid had any problem with this they wouldn't sign him.

For Madrid success is more important than prestige, i think that much is obvious.

The fact that he was saying that before might explain why he is doing it now, but it doesnt make it "right". A thief who had a difficult childhood is nt any less a thief.

Surely the club is worried about winning, and trust me that's the reason he is still there. he is needed, because it makes no sense to just dump him after a year and let Barcelona rage through seasons with trophies while we have nothing.

But as fan and an independent person you have the right to question those actions, and ask yourself if it's ok or not. It's way too easy to just hide behind the position of the club and say 'success > prestige'. I dont think in normal times, had we not shot ourselves so many times in the foot, you wouldnt be saying that, simply because those are prestige and success usually go to pair for us. But this is what we have come to.

by Le Samourai Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:45 am

Sucess brings prestige.....what are you guys talking about?

by Mr Nick09 Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:48 am

Le Samourai wrote:Sucess brings prestige.....what are you guys talking about?

No, this is just way too easy of a shortcut.

The end doesnt justify the means. You can make exceptions, but in a general sense i disagree.

by stunt Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:48 am

The Franchise wrote:What bait....its factual.

He sold 10 youth team players and bought 23 players where only 4 of them can be considered young.

Those are plain facts.

He has left Porto, Chelsea and Inter and all 3 had to rebuild (2 still havent properly) because he didnt leave them enough to work with.

The last line, "he is yet to prove himself as a long-term manager" is 100% true.

Let's get this straight, Porto had a young and ambitions team, that managed to win a CL (with luck on their side aswell). It was in no way an old, aging team, most of it's players were fairly young. Porto was left in shambles after mourinho left because it wasnt just him leaving, but rather more than half of the squad.

Chelsea had an awsome team before and after mourinho, it's success or failure has just been dependant on the quality of the coaches.

And do you really believe Mou hasnt built this Real Madrid team thinking of the future?

He might not have proven himself yet in long-term managing but rather because he hasnt managed anything long-term yet. Anyone with a brain will assume that he's just as good managing long-term as short-term. There's no factors pointing otherwise.

by Pedram Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:51 am

The Franchise wrote:
El Pipita wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Nick said an intresting thing before also.

If players were as noncommittal to Madrid as Mourinho was, many people would want that player out citing a lack of loyalty.

How comes its okay for Mourinho to not say anything?

Because Mou has been saying it before he came to Real Madrid. surely if Real Madrid had any problem with this they wouldn't sign him.

For Madrid success is more important than prestige, i think that much is obvious.

But how many of you guys were insisting before he was coming to you for the long haul, he was going to build something, he was going to be there for years and years? Now, its no problem for you? You dont mind and arent dissapointed?

success is more important than prestige...also more important than morality, otherwise you wouldnt put up with the antics he does, but thats another debate really.

I don't remember anyone were expecting Mou to stay here for a long time, at least not me. everyone knows Mourinho is not a long term coach. i remember when his first season ended we were already discussing who'll be Jose Mourinho's replacement and we're still doing it.

Yeah he's building a great team with young players, i'm sure if he leaves, Real Madrid will not fall like Chelsea and Inter, albeit it's depend who will be the next coach.

by Mr Nick09 Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:00 am

El Pipita wrote:

I don't remember anyone were expecting Mou to stay here for a long time, at least not me. everyone knows Mourinho is not a long term coach. i remember when his first season ended we were already discussing who'll be Jose Mourinho's replacement and we're still doing it.

Yeah he's building a great team with young players, i'm sure if he leaves, Real Madrid will not fall like Chelsea and Inter, albeit it's depend who will be the next coach.

How can you forget TMO and his "Mourinho will be Madrid's Cruyff, Madrid's Ferguson" rant? Laughing

btw, Chelsea didnt fall, that's not true at all. They went to the CL final after him, and had they invested in signing younger players overtime, they would be a lot better off. But they waited too long, and did not plan long term, Mourinho cant get the blame for that.

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