kiranr wrote:Vapo's dad : Pele > Maradona

Vapo : Maradona > Pele > Messi

Us : Messi > Maradona > Pele > Neymar

Next Gen : Neymar > Messi > Maradona > Pele

I'm not part of the 'US'. Too cool for that.

Why is that? You realise its very possible to watch full games featuring past players no?

I am not talking about youtube videos here, im talking full games. It is very possible to watch those games over.

I dont really care if you dont think he is in the same league as Maradona, thats not my point. Its the way in which you go about that opinion, its obsurd to be honest with out. As I aid, you using fantasy.

And you can call me a "Messi lover" all you like, but I bet you wont find one single post of mine going OTT in my praise for him.

You dont have to prove anything to me, and frankly you couldnt anyway, because no, it wouldnt matter. Your OTT fantasy if hard enough to read, let alone debate against.

You continue making wild accusations against me, putting words in my mouth I never said and such. I think you have that same problem Pele has to be real with you. Heaven forbid someone say Messi might be better/as good as Pele/Maradona...the mere mention of it sends you into rants and theatrics.

Tired of this...

Simple question..

Messi now or Maradona is him prime, whose better?

Looking for a 1 name answer here.

izzy26 wrote:

kiranr wrote:Vapo's dad : Pele > Maradona

Vapo : Maradona > Pele > Messi

Us : Messi > Maradona > Pele > Neymar

Next Gen : Neymar > Messi > Maradona > Pele

I'm not part of the 'US'. Too cool for that.

LOL. Ok, you are excluded!

When you watch messi live you also get all the emotions and hype around the game that creates excitement, which carries you through the spells where he doesnt actually do anything impressive. Watching an old match of an old player people will get bored very easilly

Vapotrini wrote:Tired of this...

Simple question..

Messi now or Maradona is him prime, whose better?

Looking for a 1 name answer here.

Your not going to get one.

How would I know?

1. They didnt play against the same opponants.

2. I seen like 10 Maradona games.


More importantly, how does that relate to anything I said? I aint even comparing them lol

The Franchise wrote:Why is that? You realise its very possible to watch full games featuring past players no?

I am not talking about youtube videos here, im talking full games. It is very possible to watch those games over.

I dont really care if you dont think he is in the same league as Maradona, thats not my point. Its the way in which you go about that opinion, its obsurd to be honest with out. As I aid, you using fantasy.

And you can call me a "Messi lover" all you like, but I bet you wont find one single post of mine going OTT in my praise for him.

You dont have to prove anything to me, and frankly you couldnt anyway, because no, it wouldnt matter. Your OTT fantasy if hard enough to read, let alone debate against.

You continue making wild accusations against me, putting words in my mouth I never said and such. I think you have that same problem Pele has to be real with you. Heaven forbid someone say Messi might be better/as good as Pele/Maradona...the mere mention of it sends you into rants and theatrics.

1. Very possible to watch full games. But let's be honest here, how many have you watched? 100? 50? 20? Cause in my mind it would take AT LEAST 20 to begin to understand how someone plays. Gut feeling, I'm guessing you've watched less than 5.

2. I've gone about my opinion the same way all messi lover's here do, with passion. Difference is, it's not the same feeling that you have so it "seems" over the top.

3, 4, 5: See point number 2. You don't agree, I get it, I understand it. You didn't see it so you can't understand. It's okay. You will understand soon enough.

6. You will understand soon enough.

7. You will understand soon enough.

8. You will understand soon enough.

It takes 20 games to understand how someone plays....no it dont..it takes many games to see how consistent they were, but it takes only a few games to see how someone plays.

I dont care about "Messi lovers", im talking about you, not them. Just like some take exception at their claims for their inaccuracy, I take exception at yours. They dont seem over the top, they are.

Well dont completely ignoring the bulk of what im saying though.

The Franchise wrote:It takes 20 games to understand how someone plays....no it dont..it takes many games to see how consistent they were, but it takes only a few games to see how someone plays.

dont think its that simple, if you watched a couple of games of maradona at the end of his napoli days when he became a more laid back passer with a lot less destructive dribbling, it would almost be like watching a different player from his time at barcelona, and even more different from his time at argentinos juniors

The Franchise wrote:It takes 20 games to understand how someone plays....no it dont..it takes many games to see how consistent they were, but it takes only a few games to see how someone plays.

I dont care about "Messi lovers", im talking about you, not them. Just like some take exception at their claims for their inaccuracy, I take exception at yours. They dont seem over the top, they are.

Well dont completely ignoring the bulk of what im saying though.

See? We disagree about many things. And something tells me it won't be the last time. We have different views and that's fine and healthy but I take exception to people who have never seen someone play, putting down my point of view. Obviously everyone is more than entitled to their opinion but how can people honestly debate about something that they haven't actually seen for themselves? It's funny...I ask that, yet I fully well know the answer...

been there, done that...

Makes sense, but who is to say which Maradona I saw? or maybe him for more than just one team?

Vapotrini wrote:

The Franchise wrote:It takes 20 games to understand how someone plays....no it dont..it takes many games to see how consistent they were, but it takes only a few games to see how someone plays.

I dont care about "Messi lovers", im talking about you, not them. Just like some take exception at their claims for their inaccuracy, I take exception at yours. They dont seem over the top, they are.

Well dont completely ignoring the bulk of what im saying though.

See? We disagree about many things. And something tells me it won't be the last time. We have different views and that's fine and healthy but I take exception to people who have never seen someone play, putting down my point of view. Obviously everyone is more than entitled to their opinion but how can people honestly debate about something that they haven't actually seen for themselves? It's funny...I ask that, yet I fully well know the answer...

been there, done that...

Well thats a shame, but frankly it doesnt matter. I put down your point of view, not because of what the opinion is, but the way you go about it. I said this more than once now.

As I said, if guys didnt watch Maradona and make an opinion, thats one them. Everyone is free and able to point that out and take exception. Just like I am here in your case.

I'm just enthusiastic when it comes to him. That's why I'm definitely over zealous when it comes to my point of view with him. Just like most Messi fan boys. I fully well know that my point of view isn't the only one, nor is it right... but it's mine, and it's something I wholeheartedly believe in. I also believe that if most here saw the things I've seen coming from a certain football player, opinions here would be entirely different. That may be arrogant yes, but you really had to see it to believe it. He really was a one man show.

He was/is untouchable!

You think I'm hyping him? Ask around, ask people to REALLY remember what it was like. Even in this day and age where TV's and the media are everywhere... Lately major mega sport stars were/are MJ, Tiger, Federer. He was more known that all of them, COMBINED. Yes, even little old grandmothers who know absolutely nothing about sports knew about Diego Maradona. Everyone knew who he was.

Simply Untouchable - and for good reason.

Vapotrini wrote:Tired of this...

Simple question..

Messi now or Maradona is him prime, whose better?

Looking for a 1 name answer here.

Messi, easily.

Vapotrini wrote:I'm just enthusiastic when it comes to him. That's why I'm definitely over zealous when it comes to my point of view with him. Just like most Messi fan boys. I fully well know that my point of view isn't the only one, nor is it right... but it's mine, and it's something I wholeheartedly believe in. I also believe that if most here saw the things I've seen coming from a certain football player, opinions here would be entirely different. That may be arrogant yes, but you really had to see it to believe it. He really was a one man show.

He was/is untouchable!

You think I'm hyping him? Ask around, ask people to REALLY remember what it was like. Even in this day and age where TV's and the media are everywhere... Lately major mega sport stars were/are MJ, Tiger, Federer. He was more known that all of them, COMBINED. Everyone knew who he was. Untouchable - and for good reason.

I have heard people praise the guy before, but never have I heard he was better than Messi at every aspect of the game. That is worse then any comment I have heard from Messi fanboys.

And lets not pretend everyone who saw him alot prescribes to what your saying, there have been players who have played with him who think Messi are better.

The Franchise wrote:

Vapotrini wrote:I'm just enthusiastic when it comes to him. That's why I'm definitely over zealous when it comes to my point of view with him. Just like most Messi fan boys. I fully well know that my point of view isn't the only one, nor is it right... but it's mine, and it's something I wholeheartedly believe in. I also believe that if most here saw the things I've seen coming from a certain football player, opinions here would be entirely different. That may be arrogant yes, but you really had to see it to believe it. He really was a one man show.

He was/is untouchable!

You think I'm hyping him? Ask around, ask people to REALLY remember what it was like. Even in this day and age where TV's and the media are everywhere... Lately major mega sport stars were/are MJ, Tiger, Federer. He was more known that all of them, COMBINED. Everyone knew who he was. Untouchable - and for good reason.

I have heard people praise the guy before, but never have I heard he was better than Messi at every aspect of the game. That is worse then any comment I have heard from Messi fanboys.

And lets not pretend everyone who saw him alot prescribes to what your saying, there have been players who have played with him who think Messi are better.

Cool.

Let's dissect my fan boy statement.

Messi is better than Maradona at what...?

Finishing, thats an easy one.

I will conveniently forget about free kicks, penalties, passing, field presence, captaincy, short, medium, long passing, dribbling, footballing Intelligence...

I await your answer....

The Franchise wrote:Finishing, thats an easy one.

Yes. Very easy to be a better finisher when you're an attacker isn't it?

When Messi is so-called play maker, how many goals does he score?

This is such a ridiculous "argument".

Messi has infinitely more talent around him, for both club and national team.

Bottom line in my mind: Build a time machine and send Messi back, are Argentina 1986 world champions? Doubt anyone here can say yes with a straight face.

Messi will always be amongst one of the greatest club teams on earth. 3 CL, great accomplishment undoubtedly. Still, that's behind a great team. Until he wins a WC with an INFINITELY more talented team than Maradona did, he honestly shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath. Okay, so apparently CL is now more competitive than the WC... great... the WC should be easy for Messi then, shouldn't it? If he doesn't win the next WC, what's gonna be the excuse then?

LOL

Its over man, why are you still going on?

You said, name something Messi is better at. There you have it.

Is he or is he not a better finisher?

Vapotrini wrote:I will conveniently forget about free kicks, penalties, passing, field presence, captaincy, short, medium, long passing, dribbling, footballing Intelligence...

I await your answer....

Messi is also better passing, final ball, short shot, finishing, dribbling, faster, footballing intelligence etc.

I would give only freekicks and captaincy for Maradona, but Messi will eventually catch him that also.

The joke of it all is I'm probably a bigger Messi fan than both of you combined... but I chose to keep my eyes open and acknowledge his short comings.

Vapotrini wrote:The joke of it all is I'm probably a bigger Messi fan than both of you combined... but I chose to keep my eyes open and acknowledge his short comings.

Sure, I'm also bigger Maradona fan than you've ever been.

Who cares? What is a "bigger fan"?

I dont hero worship players, I support Barca, not Messi.

I have favourite players just like anyone else, I have had players I look up to, but this constant this guy is better than that guy 20 years ago is dull and boring.

You might be aware of Messi's short comings, but you arent aware of your own it seems.

You asked me to prove you wrong and I did that, end of story.

Please tell me about my own short comings. Because watching you defend Messi is just about as funny as what you're probably going to say next.

An attacker scoring more than a midfielder, who'd have thunk that???

Geez, you really have me glued to my chair with your deep, tactical, thought provoking analysis.

(Seems I'm not the only one who isn't aware of his shortcomings. (PRO TIP: Don't comment on players you know f*ckall about. Sorry, 5 games aren't enough.)

pele and messi are lucky that they dont have to face world class defenders everyday and thus are little over rated.. how every players like maradona, ronaldo and pele were in the age of defenders and are thoroughly deserving of their hight praise