Why the change? he is preparing for CL. He genuinely likes the 433 better than the 4231, since you can hardly find AMs that can have the kind of defensive commitment he likes.

Writing about Mou here would steer the thread in another direction since he have to back up everything i write and respond to his horde of lovers. Look, if we just look at the way he is running the club now, it seems like he is reaching a breaking point. tensions between him and players are escalating and they are only holding up now because at the end of the day they all want to win. I am not a believer of his coaching ways, it's short sighted. I consider that the best thing he has done for us, is the recruiting. On paper we have a young team that will hold on, but i see no true depth in our game that will last overtime. He is a guru master that we needed to get our head out of the water and i genuinely think we would be better off moving in another direction, for the sake of our game, for the sake of our players.

Ozil was great today.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Why the change? he is preparing for CL. He genuinely likes the 433 better than the 4231, since you can hardly find AMs that can have the kind of defensive commitment he likes.

Writing about Mou here would steer the thread in another direction since he have to back up everything i write and respond to his horde of lovers. Look, if we just look at the way he is running the club now, it seems like he is reaching a breaking point. tensions between him and players are escalating and they are only holding up now because at the end of the day they all want to win. I am not a believer of his coaching ways, it's short sighted. I consider that the best thing he has done for us, is the recruiting. On paper we have a young team that will hold on, but i see no true depth in our game that will last overtime. He is a guru master that we needed to get our head out of the water and i genuinely think we would be better off moving in another direction, for the sake of our game, for the sake of our players.

Depth? How much more could this team do, or how could we play much more differently or effectively, with the players we have?

We play fast direct football, ala real madrid culture and style, elaborate on what you think he should be making out of this team.

The 14th wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Why the change? he is preparing for CL. He genuinely likes the 433 better than the 4231, since you can hardly find AMs that can have the kind of defensive commitment he likes.

Writing about Mou here would steer the thread in another direction since he have to back up everything i write and respond to his horde of lovers. Look, if we just look at the way he is running the club now, it seems like he is reaching a breaking point. tensions between him and players are escalating and they are only holding up now because at the end of the day they all want to win. I am not a believer of his coaching ways, it's short sighted. I consider that the best thing he has done for us, is the recruiting. On paper we have a young team that will hold on, but i see no true depth in our game that will last overtime. He is a guru master that we needed to get our head out of the water and i genuinely think we would be better off moving in another direction, for the sake of our game, for the sake of our players.

Depth? How much more could this team do, or how could we play much more differently or effectively, with the players we have?

We play fast direct football, ala real madrid culture and style, elaborate on what you think he should be making out of this team.

how many times have you seen madrid control a game against a big team?? remember the galacticos?? they did not have as much depth as this team but you didn't see them sitting back and allowing the other team to dictate play did they?? remember the game against manchester united in 2002-03 quarters?? we absolutely raped them at the bernabeu and went and scored 3 at old trafford!! against juve in the semis, they were mesmerising at the bernabeu and even in turin juve had been shitting their pants in the final hour. If only figo had not *bleep* up the penalty, we would have been the first team to win back to back cl titles!! have you ever seen this madrid team dominate the oppositon like that?? the players are there, its just that the coach is an egotistical moron who is sacred of losing and makes his team just play on the counter!!

crazzyblanco wrote:

The 14th wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:Why the change? he is preparing for CL. He genuinely likes the 433 better than the 4231, since you can hardly find AMs that can have the kind of defensive commitment he likes.

Writing about Mou here would steer the thread in another direction since he have to back up everything i write and respond to his horde of lovers. Look, if we just look at the way he is running the club now, it seems like he is reaching a breaking point. tensions between him and players are escalating and they are only holding up now because at the end of the day they all want to win. I am not a believer of his coaching ways, it's short sighted. I consider that the best thing he has done for us, is the recruiting. On paper we have a young team that will hold on, but i see no true depth in our game that will last overtime. He is a guru master that we needed to get our head out of the water and i genuinely think we would be better off moving in another direction, for the sake of our game, for the sake of our players.

Depth? How much more could this team do, or how could we play much more differently or effectively, with the players we have?

We play fast direct football, ala real madrid culture and style, elaborate on what you think he should be making out of this team.

how many times have you seen madrid control a game against a big team?? remember the galacticos?? they did not have as much depth as this team but you didn't see them sitting back and allowing the other team to dictate play did they?? remember the game against manchester united in 2002-03 quarters?? we absolutely raped them at the bernabeu and went and scored 3 at old trafford!! against juve in the semis, they were mesmerising at the bernabeu and even in turin juve had been shitting their pants in the final hour. If only figo had not *bleep* up the penalty, we would have been the first team to win back to back cl titles!! have you ever seen this madrid team dominate the oppositon like that?? the players are there, its just that the coach is an egotistical moron who is sacred of losing and makes his team just play on the counter!!

In two years that mourinho has been here, Mourinho's real madrid has scored more goals than even pep guardiola's team did in two years, this team is definatley producing up to an extent, last year we could have won a treble had it not been for missing a couple of penalties, and higuain not slotting in a goal 15 seconds in @ the camp nou in the copa del rey. Things were tight, its not as if we are a total disaster, we are producing the goods up to an extent, and are playing a way that real madrid has always appreciated.

We tried and are trying to gain more midfield control, starting with last season but sahin got injured, this season modric has come in and now offers a new variety, but what other type of football would you like to see? Perhaps we could play a bit more of a build up play kind of football, but i think that what mourinho has tried to do isnt all too bad, it produces the goods and now hes trying to perfect it a bit more by making it a bit more secure in terms of midfield control.

The galacticos of that era barely made it through the group stages, and were more of a mess compared to our current team. I can agree with the desire to see real madrid control a bit more, and i hope with modric we work on that midfield enigma, because mourinho's idealogy seems to focus more on the direct side of things than control, but our current style produces, last year against bayern, bayern beat us twice having 55 percent pssesion in both games citing lack of control from us, but other factors also influenced such as fatigued, and sahin wasnt there to bring the control that arguably was the reason to bring him during the 2011 pre season.

Look at this though

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/match/2012/apr/21/barcelona-v-realmadrid

We had more shots on target with 30 percent possesion, almost same case with camp nou visit in january.

All this team needs is a bit more of midfield control to make its way of winning more solid, with what we produce, losing against a bayern that had just gotten beat down by dortmund isnt enough to throw me off and call the team a failure to an extent. I think we are doing fine, but i understand the point regarding lack of control.

If mourinho fails to win the cl this season, there could be a strong argument it would be good to see him leave, but regarding our football, it could have more control but its pretty productive imo.

We'd have to change the face of this team and how it works to a good extent when mou leaves i assume. To bring in more control we'd need to re work some personnel and tactics.

Well as we know things are not going quite according to plan at Liverpool for him atm..Down the pecking order and been asked to play a role he isnt suited to as an attacking midfielder.To be completely honest i really dont see him having a future at Madrid once his loan expires and i dont see Liverpool trying to sign him on a permanent basis considering the rough time he has had to endure at Anfield.

Which is where i can see an opportunity arising for clubs in this particular case Borussia Dortmund to be able to sign him on a cut price..But the question do you really need him or would you take him if he was made available for transfer ? Gundogan his eventual replacement when Sahin decided to leave for Madrid is an established player for BVB now and dont see Sahin displacing him from the starting spot,then there's Leitner too so competition is going to be immense rest assured.If anything Sahin would represent a decent rotational option but can Dortmund afford that luxury ?Not to mention you cant say if this would be a good move for him at this point in his career.

Note that i only created this hypothetical topic because there were Sahin-Dortmund links a while back.

I would gladly take him back! But only if he's willing to rotate and not being a sure starter.

You made a good point about Dortmund not really needing him anymore because there are already players there who replaced him but I think there's still place for him:

1. Perisic will surely go this winter or January, which leaves a gap in the attacking third

2. Leitner shouldn't play as a '6' but a '10'. He has no defensive awareness and his dribbling/vision qualities would be more highlighted with him playing as a 10 -> Perisic's replacement

3. With Leitner playing only playing as a 10 there's one place left in the centre midfield and that's where Sahin comes in. Sahin -> Leitner's replacement

In the centre midfield there would be: Sahin, Kehl, Bender and Gündogan for two positions which would be a pretty cool centre midfield to have.

I believe bringing Sahin back would be pretty massive, better depth in midfield and better chances of not happening 'a Düsseldorf' (a game which Gündogan's and Götze's creatvitiy where highly missed).

A midfielder is needed though, it's pretty frustrating to see Leitner being wasted in the centre midfield.

For me it's Sahin first... and if not possible sign Sebastian Rode who's been absolutely beasting this season.

I see.I thought Leitner was more of a 'Vice-Gundogan' ,either ways he would just remain as a rotational player for either the AM or CM positions as both Gundogan and Goetze have made those positions their own unless they are sold which i dont see it happening any time soon.

Yeah ,it would not only mean an emotional return of sorts(lol) for Sahin but he would add necessary depth in midfield too but come to think of it would he accept being a 2nd choice/rotational player at the club where he basically became a star of sorts ?Money is definitely not in question here as he would come at a relatively cheap price if deemed available.Lets not forget that Dortmund havent yet set that Bayern-Esque status in Bundesliga if you know what i mean to be able to have such luxury on the bench.They have always had this approach of buying relatively unknown young talents slowly integrate them into the team and develop them into stars.

Zorc (Sportdirector): Sahin can come back!

"Of course we're following Nuri's career. He's our boy. We said at the time: 'When Nuri says he wants nothing but to play for Dortmund', we'll discuss the issue. But he must be available".

http://www.sport1.de/de/fussball/fussball_bundesliga/newspage_657435.html

Watzke discussed the possibility too in recent weeks, I really think it can happen if Sahin takes a pay cut and is willing to come back.

Well, I think Dortmund can always use a good player to bolster their squad depth. I just fear that Sahin will find it harder in Dortmund, too, as there is more competition on his position now as well.

But of course the question is moot as I somehow doubt Real wants to sell, and it would be quite a loss of face for him if he'd return after not succeeding away, so I think he will think twice about whether he should return.

Yes of course if he is willing to commit to the club this time and like urbanroots said, willing to play a more rotational role.

However I do see Sahin as a player who thrive on responsibility, who needs to be the star of the team so to speak. That's one of the reason why he hasnt been great at Liverpool imo. Once he's given the confidence, he'll be back at his best. He's still a couple of years away from his peak which is good.

i'd only get him if gündogan leaves. he is a good player to have, but they should rather focus on finding one or two (very) good strikers for now and a backup fullback.

also i tend to disagree with the view that leitner would make a better 10. sure he's physically weak but when he played, he always looked comfortable in CM. he is still young and will need to bulk up a bit and his ballhandling lets him seem like a 10, but i think he can make an great CM because he keeps the ball so well. this also reminds of götze, but since keeping the ball is an essential skill especially for a CM, i think he can develop into a player who intertprets the position in an exciting way.

back to sahin: i think bvb has just developed past him and it would mess up the prospects of promising youngsters.

BAYERN_MUNICH wrote:According to "Sport BILD" , Nuri Sahin will come back to Borussia Dortmund 99%

http://sportbild.bild.de/SPORT/bundesliga/vereine/borussia-dortmund/2013/01/08/transfer-news-nuri-sahin/rueckkehr-zum-bvb.html

"Dortmund deliver Sahin from Liverpool"

Taken from the transfer rumors thread.Well looks like he's coming back afterall.

I am not in a position to say if this is a wise move purely speaking from Sahin's career perspective.

But what i sure know that this is a signal of intent from Dortmund that they are ready to establish themselves as an elite club in European football and be able to challenge on all three fronts from here on in.

why not ?

Glad hes back to his home.

Classy performance today.

Too bad Real and Liverpool didnt know how to use him...

One good performance, I guess this settles it. He's back!

Thing is at Real Madrid he wouldn't have started because Alonso plays in his position. Modric is fortunate he can play AM too, unlike Sahin.

Thing is.... RM should have rotated a bit because Alonso doesnt have much time left on his peak.

highburied wrote:Glad hes back to his home.

Classy performance today.

Too bad Real and Liverpool didnt know how to use him...

Mate, They played him in his position more than 5 times at Liverpool.

He was outperformed by even Shelvey

Yohan Modric wrote:Thing is at Real Madrid he wouldn't have started because Alonso plays in his position. Modric is fortunate he can play AM too, unlike Sahin.

For the last time, Modric cannot play AM. Every time he did, he looked out of his depth and wilted like a flower under pressure even against small teams.

At least Sahin scored from that position unlike Modric who was a fish out of water

highburied wrote:Thing is.... RM should have rotated a bit because Alonso doesnt have much time left on his peak.

Well he was injured for around 4 months or so I think. Then Mourinho didn't want to disrupt the chemistry in the team or something. Anyway Sahin should be playing every game, not being a backup/rotation player.

Arquitecto wrote:

highburied wrote:Glad hes back to his home.

Classy performance today.

Too bad Real and Liverpool didnt know how to use him...

Mate, They played him in his position more than 5 times at Liverpool.

He was outperformed by even Shelvey

Yohan Modric wrote:Thing is at Real Madrid he wouldn't have started because Alonso plays in his position. Modric is fortunate he can play AM too, unlike Sahin.

For the last time, Modric cannot play AM. Every time he did, he looked out of his depth and wilted like a flower under pressure even against small teams.

At least Sahin scored from that position unlike Modric who was a fish out of water

Modric has done adequately when he's played at AM this season for Real Madrid.

No one doubted he's ability. Only his shitty mentality and attitude.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:No one doubted he's ability. Only his shitty mentality and attitude.

Whats wrong with his mentality and attitude?

highburied wrote:Thing is.... RM should have rotated a bit because Alonso doesnt have much time left on his peak.

dont listen to those questioning his mentality or attitude, it's all bs.

Sahin conducted himself like a true professional in Madrid, but his time with us got destroyed with consecutive injuries. Add to that the fact that Mou probably didnt scout him well enough before he signed him, and you understand how things went badly for him.

Got Kloppo'd.

Yeah, Madrid made a big mistake with him. Liverpool too. Both jad a great player on their hands and let him slip. Especially with Alonso and Gerrard getting up there in age, Sahin wouldve been perfect for them. Now, if Sahin keeps up this form, he gives Klopp a real selection headache. Gundogan is too good to drop, and you need a defensive mid next to these guys so Bender automatically starts. My question is if they should drop Lewandowski. Hes shown he has no commitment to the club so drop him to the bench and use him as a super sub, play a 4-3-3 with Gotze as a false 9.

I know nothing about Lewandowski commitment to the club, but seeing how important Lewandowski has been and carried Dortmund in attack like in last match (as good as Sahin last time, Lewandowski was by far their best player followed by Sahin and Kuba) dropping Lewandowski would be quite a massive loss for Dortmund, I think that would hurt them.