Idrisozet wrote:Bayern don't need anyone we just need to introduce another young talent Can from our youth team.

What Bayern desperately need is a CB Van Buyten will be 34 next month and he's not the fastest or smartest guy around, but then again we've Breno.

We're self sustainable, we need no help our youth team is sufficient...

will will get a new defender/new defenders in the summer

Hoeness

Code:

"I do not think we have huge demand in the offensive area, but it is clear. If Marco Reus says: I would like to go to Bayern, then the FC Bayern hardly say: We do not want you but fact is, however,. that we make in the defense area and anything else really need to invest. Breno now has one last chance. When it is set out within the next six to eight weeks to see if he still creates. "

this was 4 days ago

'wir müssen im Abwehrbereich richtig investieren' sounds not bad

how da hell...he should join Arsenal ..who changed his fkn mind..lol
Ok ,just 1thing he must know ! we gonna beat em again sooo he won't play in CL even EL again lol! @Reus..are u satisfied now ,u a "bastard"....

Do people really think he is way below the likes of neymer, hazard, gotze etc, i believe he is equal or may be more.

SuperMAG wrote:Do people really think he is way below the likes of neymer, hazard, gotze etc, i believe he is equal or may be more.

he carried the side from relegation to fighting for the title ofc he is more

supra969 wrote:

SuperMAG wrote:Do people really think he is way below the likes of neymer, hazard, gotze etc, i believe he is equal or may be more.

he carried the side from relegation to fighting for the title ofc he is more

Alright lets not get ahead of ourselves, Reus is a talent but hes no Nerman, and hes a couple steps behind Hazard

Hazard carried his team into the CL tbf

Hazard did not carry Lille to the CL
Reus did not carry Monchengladbach to the top of Bundesliga

please stop it now, because you are forgetting the MASSIVE contribution of people like Ter Stegen or Gervinho and other players in each team, who all stepped it up to make it happen.

rwo power wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:

rwo power wrote:You really have an issue with Badstuber

I think I remember some former coach saying he'd see a big future for a CB team Breno AND Badstuber XD

He sucks thats why, I don't understand why everyone is trying to make it look like he's as good as Hummels or Howedes, to the extent numerous articles have be written professionally on about it, if he was really better than these players then there will be no need for articles to prove that.

Badstuber most over-rated player ever and also considering you are a girl then you will obviously like him

Why should people "try to make it look like that"? Please give me some reason for that!

Fact is that practically all German sports magazines consider him good, all coaches he had consider him excellent and play him as starter, with Löw actually preferring him to Hummels and Höwedes.

Do you really think Badstuber somehow bribes them to do that?

Or might it be that they see him differently from you?

And if so many experts who actually earn money with football, be it as journalists or coaches, see him differently, might there not be a possibility that your stance could be wrong?

badstuber isn't the biggest of all retards anymore but he's still not a good - or let's say, bayern-worthy defender. he has strengths like his distribution e.g. and he's rightly praised for that. but who cares what bild etc. write now... last season he was a complete failure according to them and should have been replaced right away.

he still has to show that he can stop worldclass attackers. people like hoewedes or hummels are just more complete than him and i don't think anyone can argue that. if he has the right partner he can do very well but in my opinion that's not enough. you just never lose the feeling that he could *bleep* up big time any second.

as soon as bayern will play a quality team in CL his weaknesses will be exposed and cost them. same goes for germany at the euro2012, should he be a starter, which would make me throw the tv out of the window.

if he doesn't *bleep* up i'm more than happy to acknowledge his overall improvement.

boss wrote:how da hell...he should join Arsenal ..who changed his fkn mind..lol
Ok ,just 1thing he must know ! we gonna beat em again sooo he won't play in CL even EL again lol! @Reus..are u satisfied now ,u a "bastard"....

I agree with you.

boss wrote:how da hell...he should join Arsenal ..who changed his fkn mind..lol
Ok ,just 1thing he must know ! we gonna beat em again sooo he won't play in CL even EL again lol! @Reus..are u satisfied now ,u a "bastard"....

RealGunner wrote:Don't get why Klopp is building such a good side when he will end up at Arsenal in 4-5 years time

So he can bring them with him.

As of now I am becoming Dortmund fan, good second team.

Borrusia Dortmund management are quite retarded even more retarded than Bayer leversuken and Werder Bremen. This is the reason why Bayern will always be ahead of them.

I am sure Bayern would have sold Vidal to Leverkusen if it was the other way round, it will make bundesliga stronger. We gave bayer one of the best Youngstar out there for 2 seasons.


How they heck do you sell Oezil for 15million Euro, what sort of management do they have in Bundesliga? having other leagues milk them.

Most retarded of them all, Sold Sahin for 10million Euro less than a year later sign Reus for 17.5million.

What sort of people manage this clubs, dont come up with excuses that their contracts were about to run out, why did the management leave it for so long.....

Idrisozet wrote:Borrusia Dortmund management are quite retarded even more retarded than Bayer leversuken and Werder Bremen. This is the reason why Bayern will always be ahead of them.

Again I have to differ. BVB's Watzke managed to drag the BVB out of the deepest pit within about 7 years. The club was virtually bankrupt, but by prudent finance management, they actually got back into secure waters, they built a competitive team of youngsters and even won the league with them.

Idrisozet wrote:How they heck do you sell Oezil for 15million Euro, what sort of management do they have in Bundesliga? having other leagues milk them.

Özil was in the last year of his contract and refused to extend it. Moreover, Özil *wanted* to leave. What else should they have done? Ift hey'd have kept him one year longer, he'd have gone on a Bosman transfer and they wouldn't have gotten anything.

Idrisozet wrote:Most retarded of them all, Sold Sahin for 10million Euro less than a year later sign Reus for 17.5million.

Sahin had an exit clause of 10 mio Euros. Dortmund was forced to let him go for that money. And when you ask why did he have that clause? Sahin *only* extended the contract before that *because* they added the exit clause. If they wouldn't have done that, Sahin would have left even earlier.

Idrisozet wrote:What sort of people manage this clubs, dont come up with excuses that their contracts were about to run out, why did the management leave it for so long.....

See above - Özil wanted away and Sahin virtually blackmailed the BVB into adding the exit clause. I assume that Reus only extended his contract last year because M'gladbach added his 17.5mio exit clause, too.

rwo power wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:Borrusia Dortmund management are quite retarded even more retarded than Bayer leversuken and Werder Bremen. This is the reason why Bayern will always be ahead of them.

Again I have to differ. BVB's Watzke managed to drag the BVB out of the deepest pit within about 7 years. The club was virtually bankrupt, but by prudent finance management, they actually got back into secure waters, they built a competitive team of youngsters and even won the league with them.

Idrisozet wrote:How they heck do you sell Oezil for 15million Euro, what sort of management do they have in Bundesliga? having other leagues milk them.

Özil was in the last year of his contract and refused to extend it. Moreover, Özil *wanted* to leave. What else should they have done? Ift hey'd have kept him one year longer, he'd have gone on a Bosman transfer and they wouldn't have gotten anything.

Idrisozet wrote:Most retarded of them all, Sold Sahin for 10million Euro less than a year later sign Reus for 17.5million.

Sahin had an exit clause of 10 mio Euros. Dortmund was forced to let him go for that money. And when you ask why did he have that clause? Sahin *only* extended the contract before that *because* they added the exit clause. If they wouldn't have done that, Sahin would have left even earlier.

Idrisozet wrote:What sort of people manage this clubs, dont come up with excuses that their contracts were about to run out, why did the management leave it for so long.....

See above - Özil wanted away and Sahin virtually blackmailed the BVB into adding the exit clause. I assume that Reus only extended his contract last year because M'gladbach added his 17.5mio exit clause, too.

That's not an excuse, why are Bundesliga clubs always having to sell their players because their contract are running out, take a look at Fc Porto, Benfica, Brazilian clubs and Italian Clubs.

Why can't they make provision afore-time to avoid such problem, say for example Bayern always extend youngstars contract way before their contract runs out.


I understand Dortmund managed to build a strong team but can they maintain it if they keep making such mistakes.

Idrisozet wrote:That's not an excuse, why are Bundesliga clubs always having to sell their players because their contract are running out, take a look at Fc Porto, Benfica, Brazilian clubs and Italian Clubs.

Why can't they make provision afore-time to avoid such problem, say for example Bayern always extend youngstars contract way before their contract runs out.

I understand Dortmund managed to build a strong team but can they maintain it if they keep making such mistakes.

What mistakes? There are always two people needed in a contract - the club and the player. What would you do if the player refuses to extend the contract on terms the club can pay?

The German teams don't pay fantasy wages (only Bayern can compete with English clubs or Real+Barca wage-wise), and there are quite some players that are aware they can earn more money away from home.

So you go into a contract talk with the player and know your team can afford only a certain wage. If the player isn't satisfied with that, he can simply say: "Ok, people, I think that's not enough - I stay till the end of my contract and then look for better offers, but I won't extend. Or I will extend, but only if you give me an exit clause so that I can leave if I get a better offer."

If you are in that situation, you only have the possibilities to let the player go on a Bosman after the contract (but many teams can't afford that either), sell him before the contract runs out or add the exit clause and hope it won't be used.

Raptorgunner wrote:

boss wrote:how da hell...he should join Arsenal ..who changed his fkn mind..lol
Ok ,just 1thing he must know ! we gonna beat em again sooo he won't play in CL even EL again lol! @Reus..are u satisfied now ,u a "bastard"....

:dance: ohhhhhhh yeahhhhh. this is great for us

rwo power wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:That's not an excuse, why are Bundesliga clubs always having to sell their players because their contract are running out, take a look at Fc Porto, Benfica, Brazilian clubs and Italian Clubs.

Why can't they make provision afore-time to avoid such problem, say for example Bayern always extend youngstars contract way before their contract runs out.

I understand Dortmund managed to build a strong team but can they maintain it if they keep making such mistakes.

What mistakes? There are always two people needed in a contract - the club and the player. What would you do if the player refuses to extend the contract on terms the club can pay?

The German teams don't pay fantasy wages (only Bayern can compete with English clubs or Real+Barca wage-wise), and there are quite some players that are aware they can earn more money away from home.

So you go into a contract talk with the player and know your team can afford only a certain wage. If the player isn't satisfied with that, he can simply say: "Ok, people, I think that's not enough - I stay till the end of my contract and then look for better offers, but I won't extend. Or I will extend, but only if you give me an exit clause so that I can leave if I get a better offer."

If you are in that situation, you only have the possibilities to let the player go on a Bosman after the contract (but many teams can't afford that either), sell him before the contract runs out or add the exit clause and hope it won't be used.

When you see potential in young talent then you tie him down for as long as you can before they blow up, take a look at Benfica and FC Porto it's not like they can offer players mega contracts.

Look at what Bayern did with Toni Kroos, Alaba and Muller we offer them long term contracts, thats how you do it.

How come FC Porto, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon, Udinese, Blackburn, Aston Villa
are many more clubs are managing to sell their young players for good price, even Newcastle sold some dude for 35million or so, who is a total flop now.

Dont want to mention his name.

Some Bad bundesliga deals over the years..

van Der Vaart
Kompany
Oezil
Sahin
Vidal
Demba Ba
Piotr Trochowski
Per Mertesacker
Diego Ribas
Simon Kjær
Ivan Rakitic
Hugo Almeida
Andrea Barzagli
Kevin Kurányi
Sami Khedira.


Possibly players like Adler and JEFFERSON FARFAN could leave for nothing

Idrisozet wrote:When you see potential in young talent then you tie him down for as long as you can before they blow up, take a look at Benfica and FC Porto it's not like they can offer players mega contracts

Again, that only works if the player agrees. The 10 mio exit clause for Sahin was a demand of his when he was but 19 years of age. At that time is was no where clear whether he would really fulfill the promise he showed, so it was already considered very high then.

Idrisozet wrote:Look at what Bayern did with Toni Kroos, Alaba and Muller we offer them long term contracts, thats how you do it.

If you look at current contracts, you see the same, if the players agree to it. Many players nowadays seem to want just 3 year deals as then they have a better position to re-negotiate. Bayern can offer better wages to promising talents already, while other clubs don't have the money to offer an attractive longer term deal to a youngster who will likely want higher wages within a shorter time. Bayern have a financial clout that allows them to give even younger players better contracts, and the Bayern outlook (practically always in the CL, BL champions about every second year etc) is also a pretty good argument.

Idrisozet wrote:How come FC Porto, Benfica, Sporting Lisbon, Udinese, Blackburn, Aston Villa are many more clubs are managing to sell their young players for good price, even Newcastle sold some dude for 35million or so, who is a total flop now.

As I have no insight into how deals are done in Portugal, Italy or England, I really have no idea how they manage to coerce their players into longer term deals that allow them to ask higher transfer fees.

Idrisozet wrote:Some Bad bundesliga deals over the years..

I'll comment on those where I read about reasons / what happened:

Idrisozet wrote:van Der Vaart

He wanted away, the attempt of the HSV to keep him totally didn't work as the player didn't cooperate. You can't hold a player who really wants away.

Idrisozet wrote:Oezil

Here the player wanted away, too and got an offer by Real that he didn't want to turn down. He was in his last year at Werder and they had to cash in at least somewhat or lose out altogether.

Idrisozet wrote:Sahin

He had an exit clause in his contract and Dortmund couldn't do anything to hold him back.

Idrisozet wrote:Vidal

Vidal wanted away badly and reported it all over the press (like VDV, too). Leverkusen didn't want to sell to Bayern as Völler has a personal problem with Hoeneß and so they decided to rather let him go comparatively cheap to Italy.

Idrisozet wrote:Demba Ba

Demba Ba was a catatrophe at Hoffenheim. He wanted away and showed such a bad attitude that the management considered not even to allow him to play for the reserves. In the end they thought it would be most sensible to get rid of him after all, as he was a very bad influence in the dressing room.

Idrisozet wrote:Per Mertesacker

- here I agree. That was a bad move from Werder, but obviously the player wanted away, and there is no real use to try and keep a player against his wishes.

Idrisozet wrote:Diego Ribas

Well, he wanted away badly, too, but in the end it was worse for Juve, while Werder at least cashed in on him with a good sum.

Idrisozet wrote:Simon Kjær

He never delivered in the Bundesliga, so it was already a bad move to sign him in the first place.

Idrisozet wrote:Ivan Rakitic

He wanted away, so he refused an extension with Schalke.

Idrisozet wrote:Hugo Almeida

He wanted away as Klopp put him on the bench most of the time in the end, so him leaving was just natural.

Idrisozet wrote:Kevin Kurányi

He got a multi-million offer from Dynamo Moscva, so there was no way he could be held at Schalke.

Idrisozet wrote:Sami Khedira.

He was in the last year of his contract, too, and so the club had to decide on cash in now or let him go free next year.

Idrisozet wrote:Possibly players like Adler and JEFFERSON FARFAN could leave for nothing

Well, Adler has been injured for a while and Leverkusen actually don't want him anymore. He was their own youth product, so it is not as if they need to cash in on him. And Jefferson Farfan - have you read that he allegedly wanted to blackmail Schalke to give him 14 million Euros just to sign a new contract which gives him way better wages than he had before? If you ask me - they are better of to say "Bye bye and good riddance" to him and instead use the money more wisely.

What argument do you have if you keep saying they wanted away, obvious the board should know that the players(especially young prospect) could want away as a result they should extend their contracts on time like FC Porto, Benfica and etc are doing.

say for example Dortmund could have added a much larger exist clause in Sahin's contract, there is no argument here, everyone know Bundesliga teams are shit in terms of selling players.

Obviously if you dont extend your players contract on time the buying club will have a much more bigger bargaining power, especially if they wants to leave. easy logic, very easy logic.

The problem is extending the contract when no one wants them that much, not waiting for their contract has 2 years left or so.

Look at how much Pastore, Sanchez, Falcao, Jones were sold compare to those bundesliga players, also everyone knows Madrid to buy players for Ridiculous amount, in other word they always get rip off by the selling clubs, (You just have to look at Diarra transfer, Portsmouth isn't a top club or rich). How have they(Madrid) managed to sign, Khedirah, Oezil and Sahin for that cheap is all down to Bad management of those bundesliga teams who has failed to extend their talent contract on-time, or include a reasonable exist clause in their contracts that reflects that value of the player, which of course includes their age and prospect.

If you keep saying the players wanted to leave,(you can always counter any argument with that) it's not a fair way to say the management is smart. if they are smart they should be able to tie the players downs like Benfica and Porto are doing before other clubs come asking for the players.

easy logic

Jeps33178 wrote:

supra969 wrote:

SuperMAG wrote:Do people really think he is way below the likes of neymer, hazard, gotze etc, i believe he is equal or may be more.

he carried the side from relegation to fighting for the title ofc he is more

Alright lets not get ahead of ourselves, Reus is a talent but hes no Nerman, and hes a couple steps behind Hazard

Hazard carried his team into the CL tbf

Thats nonsense

So I suppose Cabaye, Sow, Rami, and Gervinho just picked their asses all season then?

All being carried by Hazard...

Cabaye and Gervinho were better than Hazard in the League winning season.

Idrisozet wrote:What argument do you have if you keep saying they wanted away, obvious the board should know that the players(especially young prospect) could want away as a result they should extend their contracts on time like FC Porto, Benfica and etc are doing.

say for example Dortmund could have added a much larger exist clause in Sahin's contract, there is no argument here, everyone know Bundesliga teams are shit in terms of selling players.

Obviously if you dont extend your players contract on time the buying club will have a much more bigger bargaining power, especially if they wants to leave. easy logic, very easy logic.

The problem is extending the contract when no one wants them that much, not waiting for their contract has 2 years left or so.

Look at how much Pastore, Sanchez, Falcao, Jones were sold compare to those bundesliga players, also everyone knows Madrid to buy players for Ridiculous amount, in other word they always get rip off by the selling clubs, (You just have to look at Diarra transfer, Portsmouth isn't a top club or rich). How have they(Madrid) managed to sign, Khedirah, Oezil and Sahin for that cheap is all down to Bad management of those bundesliga teams who has failed to extend their talent contract on-time, or include a reasonable exist clause in their contracts that reflects that value of the player, which of course includes their age and prospect.

If you keep saying the players wanted to leave,(you can always counter any argument with that) it's not a fair way to say the management is smart. if they are smart they should be able to tie the players downs like Benfica and Porto are doing before other clubs come asking for the players.

easy logic

It is not such an easy logic as it seems that players here in the BL are seemingly more clever and simply refuse to extend their contracts unless certain conditions are met.

And why should teams give in to each player demand?

Moreover, within the BL you simply can't get high transfer fees in any case (the high rates that Bayern are able to and willing to pay are an exception). So normally the market within the BL works with more sensible prices than the transfer market in the EPL, La Liga or Serie A. Things only get problematic when business has to be done between BL and other leagues that work on insane inflated player rates.

So actually the price-scape within the BL is what would be prudent if you want to work with a sustainable model. There is a reason why BL teams usually stay in the financial plus range. The clubs have learned (often the hard way, like BVB in the early noughties) that they should keep their finances in a sensible range and thus player trades within the BL are comparatively cheap.

I mean, after their financial crash and before the Reus deal, Dortmund made it their policy not to buy any player over 5 mio Euros. This simply led to better scouting (Kagawa for 350,000 Euros, Lewandowski for 4.7 mio Euros, Barrios for 4.2 mio Euros, Hummels for 4 mio Euros etc) and better youth development, which IMO is far more valuable and shows that the management is in fact excellent.

rwo power wrote:

Idrisozet wrote:What argument do you have if you keep saying they wanted away, obvious the board should know that the players(especially young prospect) could want away as a result they should extend their contracts on time like FC Porto, Benfica and etc are doing.

say for example Dortmund could have added a much larger exist clause in Sahin's contract, there is no argument here, everyone know Bundesliga teams are shit in terms of selling players.

Obviously if you dont extend your players contract on time the buying club will have a much more bigger bargaining power, especially if they wants to leave. easy logic, very easy logic.

The problem is extending the contract when no one wants them that much, not waiting for their contract has 2 years left or so.

Look at how much Pastore, Sanchez, Falcao, Jones were sold compare to those bundesliga players, also everyone knows Madrid to buy players for Ridiculous amount, in other word they always get rip off by the selling clubs, (You just have to look at Diarra transfer, Portsmouth isn't a top club or rich). How have they(Madrid) managed to sign, Khedirah, Oezil and Sahin for that cheap is all down to Bad management of those bundesliga teams who has failed to extend their talent contract on-time, or include a reasonable exist clause in their contracts that reflects that value of the player, which of course includes their age and prospect.

If you keep saying the players wanted to leave,(you can always counter any argument with that) it's not a fair way to say the management is smart. if they are smart they should be able to tie the players downs like Benfica and Porto are doing before other clubs come asking for the players.

easy logic

It is not such an easy logic as it seems that players here in the BL are seemingly more clever and simply refuse to extend their contracts unless certain conditions are met.

And why should teams give in to each player demand?

Moreover, within the BL you simply can't get high transfer fees in any case (the high rates that Bayern are able to and willing to pay are an exception). So normally the market within the BL works with more sensible prices than the transfer market in the EPL, La Liga or Serie A. Things only get problematic when business has to be done between BL and other leagues that work on insane inflated player rates.

So actually the price-scape within the BL is what would be prudent if you want to work with a sustainable model. There is a reason why BL teams usually stay in the financial plus range. The clubs have learned (often the hard way, like BVB in the early noughties) that they should keep their finances in a sensible range and thus player trades within the BL are comparatively cheap.

I mean, after their financial crash and before the Reus deal, Dortmund made it their policy not to buy any player over 5 mio Euros. This simply led to better scouting (Kagawa for 350,000 Euros, Lewandowski for 4.7 mio Euros, Barrios for 4.2 mio Euros, Hummels for 4 mio Euros etc) and better youth development, which IMO is far more valuable and shows that the management is in fact excellent.

Again you are supporting your argument with a different scenario, the issue is selling players not how much they bought those players. Say for example Wolfburg sold Dzeko for a reasonable amount, Hoffeinham sold Carlos Eduado for a good price, so did Hsv for De-Jong and Bayern for Hargreaves, its not impossible.

Dzeko was sold to ManC who pay insane prices for any half decent player, nevermind Dzeko who's great. They also had Juve after him who also have money.

Same goes for De Jong. Carlos Eduardo was indeed a good deal, but those Russian clubs do have a fair bit of oil money, too. Hargreaves was master business by Bayern, since he had 1 good season and the rest were filled with injury at ManU.

The guys that went for dirt cheap either:
1. were in the last year of contracts. So it's either sell NOW or they leave for free. Bayern lets a lot of guys go for free, but we have money so we don't care, and worry more about match performance. The other clubs can't afford this.

2. had an exit clause in their contract, in the Sahin way. If another club meets this clause, the owner club has no choice but to accept it, and if the player wants out... well... transfer clauses in Germany should be like in Portugal, where you see insane 50m or 100m type clauses. Or they shouldn't be there at all, IMO.

3. The players simply wanted to go, and since most clubs can't afford to have an unhappy and not performing player, and most BL clubs have excelent youth academies, they sell them for profit and replace them with pretty much free youth talent, either internal or international, like Dortmund did.

Idrisozet wrote:Again you are supporting your argument with a different scenario, the issue is selling players not how much they bought those players. Say for example Wolfburg sold Dzeko for a reasonable amount, Hoffeinham sold Carlos Eduado for a good price, so did Hsv for De-Jong and Bayern for Hargreaves, its not impossible.

It is not impossible if
- the players have a longer running contract
- the players don't have a buyout clause
- the players don't move heaven and hell to get out of a club (including moving before the press and going on strike by not training properly anymore)

And as I said, to negotiate for long running contracts with young players is not necessarily easy. In the Netherlands there is just a fresh case where a player doesn't really treat his club nicely in that respect: http://www.goal.com/en/news/462/netherlands/2012/01/06/2833155/psv-wonderkid-zakaria-labyad-the-fifa-regulations-are

Germany is a fantastic market for good/great players at reasonable prices (relatively of course). I do expect German clubs to start asking for more money though if this continues (higher demand, higher prices etc)

Just face it..kroos is only worth 15 million