Who will be the Democrats' presidential candidate against Trump?

I don't know about that. I find it to absolute pervers and grotesque for campaigns to be president last for two years.

Politicians work for the people and most candidates are elected by the people for a certain job, and they're just not able to do that to the full extent when they're on the campaign trail for two years. They either need to quit as senators, representatives and mayors of tiny towns to run.

Or they can do as we do in Denmark at least, which I very much like and have a 3 week period where the campaign runs.

We don't democratically decide who our candidates are though. That's a very internal things, which I find to be terrible overall. I just think some middle ground should be possible for both countries. There's just nothing politically (politics as in actual politics and not schemes to gain/stay in power) to gain from having such a long drawn out process.

just watched Bernie on Fallon

Agree with absolutely everything he says.

Not being able to afford basic healthcare is enough reason to vote for him..... or student debt but old folks don't care about that.

Myesyats wrote:just watched Bernie on Fallon

Agree with absolutely everything he says.

Not being able to afford basic healthcare is enough reason to vote for him..... or student debt but old folks don't care about that.

Biden was vice president when Obama passed the affordable care act that gave healthcare to millions.

If you cared about healthcare you'd vote for the person who was a part of the administration that actually got it done. Not a guy who spent his career naming post offices.

Did it work? Because stats say that still 1 in 4 Americans skip medical care because of the cost.

Myesyats wrote:Did it work? Because stats say that still 1 in 4 Americans skip medical care because of the cost.

That sounds like something that would happen in most cases regardless of option honestly.

Unique has stated on here about his mother in law not being able to get health care....and the NHS is the public option in the UK.

Pedram wrote:

Young Kaz wrote:

Myesyats wrote:just watched Bernie on Fallon

Agree with absolutely everything he says.

Not being able to afford basic healthcare is enough reason to vote for him..... or student debt but old folks don't care about that.

Biden was vice president when Obama passed the affordable care act that gave healthcare to millions.

If you cared about healthcare you'd vote for the person who was a part of the administration that actually got it done. Not a guy who spent his career naming post offices.

Ah yes the healthcare system that leaves 10m people uninsured, doesn't even have a public option and doesn't solve the price gouging of prescription drugs.

Obamacare is a huge gift to private insurance companies.

Biden has spoke about making it better. He knows its his legacy. He'd be forced to make it better.

I really don't take anecdotal stories seriously when it comes to political debate. They are often the exception and not the rule.

For every person who can't get NHS care or has a horror story about socialized medicine in general, there are twice as many who don't have that same experience and are fine with the system as is. I think it's intellectually dishonest to elevate corner cases and/or worse-case to the level of the "norm" in order to decide which health system is better. It doesn't invite civil discourse, it encourages the opposite.

Regarding Obamacare - What people have to remember about it is that what we got was extremely watered down due to GOP and at the time Blue dog Democrat opposition. The socialism arguments were at as high a fever pitch then as they are now with Bernie. There was a strong push from progressives to get single payer into the discussion seriously and in order for Obama to pass something resembling a public option to private healthcare, single payer was taken off the table.

What will be telling is how Biden plans to make Obamacare better than what was originally passed. A lot of that rides on down ballot races. If he beats Trump, but the GOP keep the Senate, he's basically a lame duck. If they lose the Senate, but flip the House, he's in a lot better position, but still not a great one. The only way for him to really have a platform to get done what he is promising to do with Obamacare is to have both chambers of Congress under Democrat leadership. I'm doubtful that will happen. His outlook on healthcare may be considered more realistic than Bernie's, but it wouldn't surprise me if he encounters just as much difficult passing the changes he wants.

Me personally, my fear with Biden is that he will compromise far too much.

Young Kaz wrote:

Myesyats wrote:Did it work? Because stats say that still 1 in 4 Americans skip medical care because of the cost.

That sounds like something that would happen in most cases regardless of option honestly.

USA's healthcare system is comically bad considering the resources they have. As Bernie says, it is mostly due to greed. Americans shouldnt have to worry about medical bills resulting in life of debt.

About a year ago I stumbled across an article: "137 million Americans are struggling with medical debt". Its outrageous.

Biden is a such liar and dishonest. He talks about authorization and how he stands against them, but he has always cozied with them.

China biggest power is through their power over US supply, and Biden has backed many of the trade deals that has empowered China into the superpower they are now. Also Xi Jinping praised Biden as close friend to their government.

Russia power is through their biggest resources of fossil fuel and influence in the oil market. Same with Saudi Arabia.

Biden view on foreign policy is basically like the GOP, talks big on human rights issues but in practice they support many authoritarian governments.

He may be dishonest and disingenuous, but he looked more presidential than Bernie at that debate. He had poise, he was calm, and he appeared focused on the immediate. These things resonate with older voters, especially older black voters.

Bernie's attacks just looked.....ineffective and given the time we're in, just off balance.

Biden pointing out that Italy has a single payer healthcare system yet it's still getting ravaged by Covid-19 was a body blow to Bernie's M4A argument. Bernie simply didn't have a comeback for that one.

Biden may be antiquated and bit of a rube, but he's the nominee now. Let's hope he's this sharp against Trump later this year.

McLewis wrote:He may be dishonest and disingenuous, but he looked more presidential than Bernie at that debate. He had poise, he was calm, and he appeared focused on the immediate. These things resonate with older voters, especially older black voters.

Bernie's attacks just looked.....ineffective and given the time we're in, just off balance.

Biden pointing out that Italy has a single payer healthcare system yet it's still getting ravaged by Covid-19 was a body blow to Bernie's M4A argument. Bernie simply didn't have a comeback for that one.

Biden may be antiquated and bit of a rube, but he's the nominee now. Let's hope he's this sharp against Trump later this year.

But he is wrong though, to fix what is broken and getting the Covid 19 situation under control it will take drastic changes. He simply does not understand the gravity of the situation.

1. We do not have the necessary supplies for testing. That is because we depend on China to produce it for us. This is a shortcoming that exposes US supply chain travesty.

2. Italy health care system is not very robust, they have faced a lot of cuts and austerity. They have have actually gone through quite a bit of privatization in the last decade. So they are actually more in the mold of what Neoliberal like Biden advocate. Italy also faces a very unique situation is that they are a very heavy tourist country, they poorly reacted to the situation.

Also remember Italy crisis is they are ahead of us, we are proximity 15-20 behind them. We will see how our system handles it.

Germany and South Korea are handling it very well, thanks large due to their robust health care system.

My requirements for the president:  Let the professionals do their job.  Don't do anything stupid...  and remember this quote all the time:

Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt.

Trump is a blowhard buffoon.  Bernie is an unrealistic ideologue & revolutionary.  Biden is...  harmless.

I'll go with harmless.  Not ideal.  But that's all we got.  I'm hoping Biden chooses Kamala Harris as his VP.  I liked her...  tough, smart, ball-breaker.

@Blue... it's not our reliance on China that caused lack of inventory. It's the fact that our healthcare system is private and for-profit. Just-in-time inventory system is the most profitable system and that's what we employed.

A lot of nonsense with blaming China for everything. You can blame them for starting the virus... but not the rest of it. China is a net-net extremely positive influence on the world economy and will remain so. Europe and the US are just freaked out because China has surpassed Europe in terms of economic power and it is catching up fast with the US (will surpass within 10 years).

Don't believe the crap. Heard the same shit back in 1990 regarding Japan. It's blatant scapegoating.

Bernie Sanders imo is a good man, that is enough for me to get my vote but he is a terrible politician and does not have killer instinct to lead a anti establishment movement.

I honestly feel there will be a large paradigm shift in politics, there are members of the GOP who are pushing against the libertarian/Free markets Koch industry mindset inside the party. Senator Hawley and Rubio are pushing against a capitalism that enriches the owners while leaving the labors starving. They will be much more successful imo because they can construct their messaging to their base because that are anti elitists and primary party of many of the poorest states.

In this crisis Mitt Romney and Tom Cotten are saying that Pelosi stimulus packages do not go far enough for the working class, and in fact are pushing Pelosi from the left. This is unbelievable honestly, that Romney is pushing for a UBI and GOP senators saying that Pelosi paid leave is inadequate because it leaves 80% of workers out of their bill.

Biden and the democratic party have made it clear they are rejecting the current generation of 19-45. There will be repercussions, and the GOP can absolutely win many of these voters.

sportsczy wrote:@Blue... it's not our reliance on China that caused lack of inventory. It's the fact that our healthcare system is private and for-profit. Just-in-time inventory system is the most profitable system and that's what we employed.

A lot of nonsense with blaming China for everything. You can blame them for starting the virus... but not the rest of it. China is a net-net extremely positive influence on the world economy and will remain so. Europe and the US are just freaked out because China has surpassed Europe in terms of economic power and it is catching up fast with the US (will surpass within 10 years).

Don't believe the crap. Heard the same shit back in 1990 regarding Japan. It's blatant scapegoating.

Not scapegoating more stating a clear supply chain and manufacturing dilemma. By outsourcing such jobs you lose control and power over manufacturing.

China is a authoritarian government though, and are currently blaming US for starting the virus. They have to reckoned with before it is too late.

Blue wrote:China biggest power is through their power over US supply, and Biden has backed many of the trade deals that has empowered China into the superpower they are now.

Explain to me how it's bad that China is now richer than it was before, moving the most people out of poverty in the history of the world in just 25 years. Explain to me why Biden was wrong to back that.

Blue wrote:

McLewis wrote:He may be dishonest and disingenuous, but he looked more presidential than Bernie at that debate. He had poise, he was calm, and he appeared focused on the immediate. These things resonate with older voters, especially older black voters.

Bernie's attacks just looked.....ineffective and given the time we're in, just off balance.

Biden pointing out that Italy has a single payer healthcare system yet it's still getting ravaged by Covid-19 was a body blow to Bernie's M4A argument. Bernie simply didn't have a comeback for that one.

Biden may be antiquated and bit of a rube, but he's the nominee now. Let's hope he's this sharp against Trump later this year.

But he is wrong though, to fix what is broken and getting the Covid 19 situation under control it will take drastic changes. He simply does not understand the gravity of the situation.

1. We do not have the necessary supplies for testing. That is because we depend on China to produce it for us. This is a shortcoming that exposes US supply chain travesty.

2. Italy health care system is not very robust, they have faced a lot of cuts and austerity. They have have actually gone through quite a bit of privatization in the last decade. So they are actually more in the mold of what Neoliberal like Biden advocate. Italy also faces a very unique situation is that they are a very heavy tourist country, they poorly reacted to the situation.

Also remember Italy crisis is they are ahead of us, we are proximity 15-20 behind them. We will see how our system handles it.

Germany and South Korea are handling it very well, thanks large due to their robust health care system.

1. Biden did say he would take advantage of the WHO test kits that are being offered. Something Trump has repeatedly refused to do. That may not completely solve the test kit availability problem given how many cases we have so far, but it would significantly help address it. I don't think he's wrong there.

2. I don't disagree. Our reaction, up until Trump's more sobering tone last night, is pretty much the same as Italy before they got hit hard by this virus. It's been cavalier and very lackadaisical and at times, outright in denial. However, All I'm pointing out here is that Biden scored a cheap shot at Bernie's key policy and Bernie, uncharacteristically, didn't have a rebuttal for it. We can get into the minutiae of which single payer systems would've responded better to this and why Italy didn't, but that's beyond the point I was making.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Blue wrote:China biggest power is through their power over US supply, and Biden has backed many of the trade deals that has empowered China into the superpower they are now.

Explain to me how it's bad that China is now richer than it was before, moving the most people out of poverty in the history of the world in just 25 years. Explain to me why Biden was wrong to back that.

First thing some contexts, i don't know if you watched the debate, don't blame you if you didn't. In the debate Joe Biden compared China to Jack the Ripper and said you can't say any positive attributes of China and other regimes. Bernie Sanders said he vastly opposes to China, but he made the point you made how China elevated many from extraordinary poverty. While Joe Biden refuted the statement by saying it was "marginal." This i obviously blatant dishonesty by Joe Biden, because no one can deny China achievement in that regard.

All in all Joe Biden came out as dishonest and hypocrite. He didn't even defend the positive of China rise, while at the same time has long supported many of the trade deals that benefited China. Like i said Obama administration had a cozy relationship with Xi Jinping, and Biden has praised China leader and has been praised by them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/joe-biden-praises-xi-jinping-us-china-air-defence-zone

What is bad about China? They are very authoritarian, they kill and torture political dissents. They have put over 1m Uyghur in concentration camps. One of the major human right violators, suppress free speech and press. If you read the book "1984" that is basically the way China is near headed. Completely reaching for dystopian reality.

Honestly it should worry many that they are becoming first most world leader. They have no regard for Human rights, it is scary how they plan to reshape the political landscape of the world.

Also China rise has hurt many communities in the US due to large #of outsourcing jobs. Turned many cities from boom to busts.

Blue wrote:
First thing some contexts, i don't know if you watched the debate, don't blame you if you didn't. In the debate Joe Biden compared China to Jack the Ripper and said you can't say any positive attributes of China and other regimes. Bernie Sanders said he vastly opposes to China, but he made the point you made how China elevated many from extraordinary poverty. While Joe Biden refuted the statement by saying it was "marginal." This i obviously blatant dishonesty by Joe Biden, because no one can deny China achievement in that regard.

All in all Joe Biden came out as dishonest and hypocrite. He didn't even defend the positive of China rise, while at the same time has long supported many of the trade deals that benefited China. Like i said Obama administration had a cozy relationship with Xi Jinping, and Biden has praised China leader and has been praised by them.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/joe-biden-praises-xi-jinping-us-china-air-defence-zone

Ah okay, that makes more sense now. Seems to me a bit ironic that Bernie is praising the rise out of poverty given that it was liberal (in the classical sense) policies that made it happen.

But yeah absolutely two-faced of Biden to suddenly attack China given his record on it. If he wants to take up Obama's mantle he needs to take up the unpopular parts as well.

Blue wrote:
What is bad about China? They are very authoritarian, they kill and torture political dissents. They have put over 1m Uyghur in concentration camps. One of the major human right violators, suppress free speech and press. If you read the book "1984" that is basically the way China is near headed. Completely reaching for dystopian reality.

Honestly it should worry many that they are becoming first most world leader. They have no regard for Human rights, it is scary how they plan to reshape the political landscape of the world.

Also China rise has hurt many communities in the US due to large #of outsourcing jobs. Turned many cities from boom to busts.

Well of course I think these are all terrible things that China deserves to get criticized on, but they would've happened regardless of their rise to superpower status or not. It's not that I don't have a problem with it, it's that I think that "allowing" China to become a superpower didn't impact that.

Bernie should drop out now.

To continue on only helps trump.

@BC, i think that is a valid point for your argument, i disagree though i think cumulation of power has something to do with China disregard for human rights. To some regard being an enabler.

I think DNC should make all voting through the mail, it is completely unnecessary to do it in person especially due to COVID-19. You can't recommend social distancing and health  guidelines in this pandemic than ignore it when it comes to polling stations. It is absolutely insane ffs.

Some idiots in the media are saying Bernie should drop out for the safety of the country, do these idiots realize that Bernie is not the only person on the ballot. There is still many primaries between state and local level. Even without a presidential nominee contest, the primary must still happen.

Is there?  I thought this was a democratic presidential primary... so this was the only thing on the ballot.  You need to be a registered democrat to vote so it can't be anything else, right?

sportsczy wrote:Is there?  I thought this was a democratic presidential primary... so this was the only thing on the ballot.  You need to be a registered democrat to vote so it can't be anything else, right?

A lot of down ballots are also to be voted; anywhere from senate, state rep, state Attorney, commissioner, etc.

Right now it is the Democratic and Republican primary, basically any incumbent that is being challenged from their own party will be voted on, and there is some cases where a position is vacant. Whoever wins will face off against the opposing party in the general election in November.

Some states have a open primary, which means you do not have to be registered as Dem or GOP to vote in their primary, in many you have to be registered in that party to vote. So it depends.

Anyway with or without Bernie Sanders they show must go on in some capacity.

Honestly it is crazy not to do mail ballots, it says a lot about both parties that they can not work through an alternative. This is really baffling, that many are being asked to change their behavior and lifestyle; avoid gathering of 6 or more and have proper spacing between one and another. Meanwhile having polling stations that could be a hotbed for transferring the virus.

All these industries are asking for bailouts, kinda making the case that it would be cheaper to just nationalize them and buy them out.

I am not going to advocate for that, but there has to be way to stop this con every 8-10 years.

Blue wrote:All these industries are asking for bailouts, kinda making the case that it would be cheaper to just nationalize them and buy them out.

I am not going to advocate for that, but there has to be way to stop this con every 8-10 years.

Yeah, it's ridiculous, when they're making profit they're paying dividends (and possibly buying back their own shares) and when hard times hit it's "oh, please give us taxpayer money so we won't go bankrupt." That's capitalism for the rich right there.

I really like the plan that Elizabeth Warren laid out to fight that, though it has a snowball's chance in hell in passing in Congress.

Here is it:

- Payrolls must be maintained and companies must use funds to keep people working or on payroll.

- $15 minimum wage within one year of the end of the national emergency.

- Permanent ban on share buybacks.

- No dividends or executive bonuses while receiving relief and for three years afterwards.

- Must obtain shareholder and board approval for all political spending.

- Collective bargaining agreements should remain in place.

What I hope all of this exposes is the myth of capitalism. These corporations asking for bailouts is the exact opposite. Under capitalism, they should all be allowed to fail due to the fact that they have not properly prepared for this crisis.

What's happening now is pretty much a lapsed form of pseudo-capitalism.