The Greatest

The video below; Is that the reason why all you guys consider Maradona better than Messi?
If passing skills are just a single judging criteria, why do you guys keep saying that Maradona is better than Messi and that he's the greatest ever player to have ever lived?

A bit hypocritical, if you ask me.

Messi is the best player ever

When he retires people will realize that

I've never objectively claimed that someone is the best, ever. But if I did, I wouldn't be referencing a Youtube video to back up my claim

How can we judge Maradona otherwise then? There's not much footage available of him playing I would guess.... Even if there was, who would be stupid enough to watch all of that boring BS?

That was some magical crossing tho

Let's face it. There's no clear criteria for judging who the best player actually is. Some use goals, some use talent, some use trophies, some use the world cup, some use individual awards, some use consistency, some even use loyalty (stupidly) as a criterion. Person X could say Cruyff is the GOAT, person Y could say Maradona, person Z could say Ronaldo lima, person A could say Messi, person B could say Pele, and person C could say Di stefano and they all would be true to different people.

This is always so because football in itself transcends logic, or maths and goes into a realm of emotion, feel and pleasure, and like we all know, pleasure could either mean goals, talent, trophies, the world cup, loyalty or individual awards (to different people).

If I were to use plain Logic, I would say the GOAT was Pele, Messi, Maradona and Cruyff (in that order) but you see, I (like most people too) don't actually watch or understand football that way, as my most memorable moments have come from how I felt, the emotions, and sentiments..

Take for instance, that despite the fact that Messi might have been logically better, I feel better and more satisfied watching the Original Ronaldo or say Ronaldinho, or a Neymar, than Messi. Infact, when I watch Messi, I actually catch myself yawning various times to the point of feeling sleepy almost 100% of the time.

So as a consequence, if you ask a fellow like me who the GOAT is, I'd probably be inclined to rate Ronaldo lima, Maradona, Pele, or Cruyff higher than messi, not because they're/were irrefutably better, but because they've brought the most joy I ever felt while watching the beautiful game and that in itself, ultimately matters the most to me.

Its the same reason people deeply hate Mourinho, despite him being a winner (because of his ugly football) and adore/worship guys like Cruyff or guadiolar, irrespective of whether they win trophies or not, as long as they play beautiful football and any would be true depending on who you ask. (Sorry for the long post)

I respectfully disagree with Bankz. I don't think the reason people have differents GOATs is because there are no clear criteria. We could find a common ground and a clear formula if we wanted to.

No, the reason, in my humble opinion, is because most people are quite self-absorbed and believe that only their era matters, completely disregarding the olden days of football.

But I have always said in order to be qualified to pick "the greatest player of all-time", you'd have to be an unbiased centenarian. You'd have to be old enough, fair enough, wise enough and knowledgeable enough to make such a complex selection with pinpoint accuracy.

Thimmy wrote:I've never objectively claimed that someone is the best, ever. But if I did, I wouldn't be referencing a Youtube video to back up my claim

Not even if it's one about unreal passing skills?

@demon..
"But I have always said in order to be qualified to pick "the greatest player of all-time", you'd have to be an unbiased centenarian. You'd have to be old enough, fair enough, wise enough and knowledgeable enough to make such a complex selection with pinpoint accuracy."

And this said person will probably not need to exist too?

Yawn, this was relevant discussion like four years ago.

Bankz wrote:And this said person will probably not need to exist too?

lol you get what I mean though. Somebody has to live through all those eras in order to make a fair decision.

Like for instance, in my lifetime, one of the most technical players I have ever seen play is prime Ronaldinho. The guy was unplayable. But I can't say he's the most technical player in history because I haven't seen all history. And somebody older than me may very well have a better, broader and more accurate understanding.

Yes, Ronaldinho is definitely in my top 3 of the most technical players of my lifetime. But somebody older than me might choose Zico, Garrincha or someone else as the most technical of their lifetime. And chances are, they are closer to the truth than I am because their knowledge covers both my lifetime and theirs.

It's still between Pele and Maradona. They are at a level higher than the others. Even considering that defenders could employ WWF tactics against them.

How harmonica has not responded with an army of video evidence and gifs to agree with uou I don't know.

My body is ready

The Demon of Carthage wrote:most people are quite self-absorbed and believe that only their era matters, completely disregarding the olden days of football.

This. People don't care about the things they don't know about. It's far more convenient to pick someone they like, who's performances are still fresh in their memory.

Okay, after more research I came across this footage which I've never seen before. Now I know why he is considered by the majority as the best. His footballing IQ is the highest I have ever seen; a 180 plus and possibly 200; a true genius.  

Football may have been slower back in those days, this is why it is important to compare apples to apples when it comes to who is the greatest.

Unbelievable. I am really impressed.

"The 28-year-old faced stiff competition from legends of the game but ultimately won with 53,904 people backing the Barcelona forward - a whopping 52 per cent of the 103,611 votes cast."


Young people = Cronaldo 2nd best
Middle aged people = Maradona 2nd best
Old people = Pele 2nd best
All age groups = Messi clearly the best

There you can actually see the "my time was better"-argument, however even that doesn't really matter anymore as it's so obvious.

Messi's ball control is much better than Maradona's imo, he keeps the ball much closer to his feet

Harmonica wrote:"The 28-year-old faced stiff competition from legends of the game but ultimately won with 53,904 people backing the Barcelona forward - a whopping 52 per cent of the 103,611 votes cast."
Young people = Cronaldo 2nd best
Middle aged people = Maradona 2nd best
Old people = Pele 2nd best
All age groups = Messi clearly the best

Valkyrja wrote:Messi's ball control is much better than Maradona's imo, he keeps the ball much closer to his feet

There you can actually see the "my time was better"-argument, however even that doesn't really matter anymore as it's so obvious.

So you guys root for Messi to be the best?

From the footage which I ve seen just a while back, I think Maradona is better by far. What he does with the ball is something Messi couldnt replicate until now.

But maybe we could agree that Messi at Barcelona is better than Maradona at Barcelona was. Not sure this holds any truth until I see more footage but I think Messi wins this.

Also watch the vid and try to deconstruct what goes in the mind of Maro at every inflection point which precedes every move he makes.

The answer is within.

Pure genius.