Manchester United Part V/Ole Sack Watch

From the matches so far, it felt as if he didn’t have a set system. He changes formations to suit the opposition. May be it was because he don’t really trust the abilities of some of his players and next season by bringing in a couple of new players he can drill them lads to play in a consistent system. I would love if he made us revert to an old fashioned 4-4-2 tho with Martial and Rashford/Lukaku as strikers.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer has been announced as our new full-time manager.

I was of the opinion that the club should wait until the end of the season. Hopefully, this decision won't prove to be a rushed one.

The club should have waited, yes.
The 'interim' tag was working very well for Ole so far, as a natural PR and expectations management tool, and I don't understand the need to rush a public declaration (you can communicate internally of course). From now on, things can only go downwards atmospherically. Should have waited until summer and present some transfers in the process.

Anyway, path is now clear for Pochettino to Bayern

what a sad news for United, appointing a truly average lad to such a big club. i guess Poch turned you away. oh well

Ole in 3 months already achieving what Poch has in like 5 seasons. Not a damn thing.

Rushed, for sure. but I'm optimistic. Way more than I was when a proven winner like Mou came in. Hope they back him properly in the summer

Good. Now appoint a DoF and keep that idiot Woodward far away from the footballing side of things. No more going after big club rejects and Galactico signings. No club legend is going to save us if our regressive transfer strategy is still continued next season. Resigning utter dross like Phil Jones just won’t do anymore.  Back Ole financially and give him the greenlight to buy and sell the players he want.

You guys really think woody is gonna give up football operations to some random guy because he has the title director of football? That's gonna be a cosmetic appointment if you make it, and it's not even guarantees success, just look at monchi in Rome

lost his last 3 games aswel

Who lost his last 3 games?

Strange timing but i think the PSG tie was the turning point in this decision.

At this point, it would have been difficult to justify not giving Solskjaer the job. Putting aside his results, he's very clearly cheered the squad up and is getting the most out of three of their biggest investments: Pogba, Martial and Lukaku, as well as getting performances from Lindelof and Shaw. I think United value this a lot since it'll save them a lot of money replacing these players.

Coaching is overrated anyway. It's all about keeping a squad happy and disciplined and wanting to play for you. It's a "just don't fuck it up and you're good to go" type of job. 90 % man management, 10 % tactics if you will.

SAF goes down as the greatest manager in EPL history and he pulled a Carrick-Giggs (40 years old) double pivot against prime Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi (false 9). Since then I always believed it's more about the general character of the coach and how much the players respect him than any sort of tactical mastermindery. Tactics plays a part in nuances, unless you go extreme of course or try to apply stuff to which the squad is not capable of.

There are just too many things which you can't logically explain otherwise if you don't agree with my manager-player symbiosis theory. How does Rafa Benitez make 2 CL finals with Liverpool (with some seriously garbage players as well) yet doesn't even last 6 months at prime Real Madrid? Similarly: How do Mourinho's 3rd seasons always suck? Does he suddenly manage differently than in his first one? No. He's just generally a toxic character and players stop playing for him after a while when they've been thrown under the bus by him 2 dozen times per season.

I wonder how much say he's going to have over transfers. He's got no experience of signing 1st or even 2nd class players.

Jay29 wrote:At this point, it would have been difficult to justify not giving Solskjaer the job. Putting aside his results, he's very clearly cheered the squad up and is getting the most out of three of their biggest investments: Pogba, Martial and Lukaku, as well as getting performances from Lindelof and Shaw. I think United value this a lot since it'll save them a lot of money replacing these players.

I think Herrera and Lingard have been the most consistent performers under him. The team just isn't the same when they're not playing.

futbol wrote:Coaching is overrated anyway. It's all about keeping a squad happy and disciplined and wanting to play for you. It's a "just don't fuck it up and you're good to go" type of job. 90 % man management, 10 % tactics if you will.

SAF goes down as the greatest manager in EPL history and he pulled a Carrick-Giggs (40 years old) double pivot against prime Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi (false 9). Since then I always believed it's more about the general character of the coach and how much the players respect him than any sort of tactical mastermindery. Tactics plays a part in nuances, unless you go extreme of course or try to apply stuff to which the squad is not capable of.

There are just too many things which you can't logically explain otherwise if you don't agree with my manager-player symbiosis theory. How does Rafa Benitez make 2 CL finals with Liverpool (with some seriously garbage players as well) yet doesn't even last 6 months at prime Real Madrid? Similarly: How do Mourinho's 3rd seasons always suck? Does he suddenly manage differently than in his first one? No. He's just generally a toxic character and players stop playing for him after a while when they've been thrown under the bus by him 2 dozen times per season.

As I see it, in a game between two teams with comparable ability who are both motivated, there has to be a differentiating factor that yields a result besides luck. This has to be tactics.

However, that scenario is actually quite rare. For the best teams, most of their games will be against opponents of lesser ability than them. In which case, a fully motivated top team should win most of the time regardless of its tactical approach. United are a good case study for this because Solskjaer hasn't been there long enough to overhaul their tactics or implement any kind of system, yet the difference in results and performances to Mourinho's United is stark. He's not made Pogba a better player than he was, for example, but he's getting considerably better performances out him than Mourinho did, which owes a lot to his man management.

In general, man management is an overlooked aspect of management. We kind of scoff at motivators out of principle but the ability to manage a full squad of egos and keep everyone united towards the same goal is huge. All the tactical knowledge in the world isn't going to count for much if the players don't want to execute the plans plans because they hate their manager.

The most important job of a manager is transfers. Tactics, motivation etc all come second. A tactically bad manager with better players is more often going to win against a tactically good manager with worse players. For example, the main reason Wenger had 20 years at Arsenal was because he was great at spotting talent and signing the right players.

Mr Nick09 wrote:You guys really think woody is gonna give up football operations to some random guy because he has the title director of football? That's gonna be a cosmetic appointment if you make it, and it's not even guarantees success, just look at monchi in Rome

Well one can only hope. DoF should happen as it was widely reported when Mourinho was sacked. Although how much authority he is going to actually have, it remains to be seen. And considering how much Woodward’s transfers so far have been a failure, the higher ups I hope, like every Man United fan that they would make the move. Things like losing Herrera on a free, Sanchez and Jones staying beyond this season and stinking up further, all that will only put more blame on Woodw.

@Glory - Hopefully, OGS knows his stuff and has some balls to consider telling Woodward that the club would strongly benefit of an internal reorganization and that it really needs someone with a better and clearer football perspective than him, in a higher position.

Art Morte wrote:The most important job of a manager is transfers. Tactics, motivation etc all come second. A tactically bad manager with better players is more often going to win against a tactically good manager with worse players. For example, the main reason Wenger had 20 years at Arsenal was because he was great at spotting talent and signing the right players.

I don't agree with this. I'm with @Jay29 and @futbol on this. Obviously, picking the right players to transfer is incredibly important and nowadays it is an art to spot the best players and get them on your side. However, if we look into the past and present, it's much more than that and usually the impact of the coach is much bigger when it comes to motivation and tactics.

We've had situations with managers with incredible squads that did no good at that time and then they were replaced with coaches who managed to win trophies and be successful with the same squads. We've even had the reversed situation. Also, we've seen so called mediocre squads improving a lot under some managers without many sensational additions.

Transfers are important, but the most important is motivating your players, because without this tactics and transfers won't work at all. After getting your squad happy, it's very much about tactics and then transfers (if you already have a decent squad).

Art Morte wrote:I wonder how much say he's going to have over transfers. He's got no experience of signing 1st or even 2nd class players.

Also, this doesn't really matter. It's like that saying "he's got no experience in big games as a coach", but it has been proven lots of times that it doesn't matter.

Jay29 wrote:

futbol wrote:Coaching is overrated anyway. It's all about keeping a squad happy and disciplined and wanting to play for you. It's a "just don't fuck it up and you're good to go" type of job. 90 % man management, 10 % tactics if you will.

SAF goes down as the greatest manager in EPL history and he pulled a Carrick-Giggs (40 years old) double pivot against prime Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta-Messi (false 9). Since then I always believed it's more about the general character of the coach and how much the players respect him than any sort of tactical mastermindery. Tactics plays a part in nuances, unless you go extreme of course or try to apply stuff to which the squad is not capable of.

There are just too many things which you can't logically explain otherwise if you don't agree with my manager-player symbiosis theory. How does Rafa Benitez make 2 CL finals with Liverpool (with some seriously garbage players as well) yet doesn't even last 6 months at prime Real Madrid? Similarly: How do Mourinho's 3rd seasons always suck? Does he suddenly manage differently than in his first one? No. He's just generally a toxic character and players stop playing for him after a while when they've been thrown under the bus by him 2 dozen times per season.

As I see it, in a game between two teams with comparable ability who are both motivated, there has to be a differentiating factor that yields a result besides luck. This has to be tactics.

However, that scenario is actually quite rare. For the best teams, most of their games will be against opponents of lesser ability than them. In which case, a fully motivated top team should win most of the time regardless of its tactical approach. United are a good case study for this because Solskjaer hasn't been there long enough to overhaul their tactics or implement any kind of system, yet the difference in results and performances to Mourinho's United is stark. He's not made Pogba a better player than he was, for example, but he's getting considerably better performances out him than Mourinho did, which owes a lot to his man management.

In general, man management is an overlooked aspect of management. We kind of scoff at motivators out of principle but the ability to manage a full squad of egos and keep everyone united towards the same goal is huge. All the tactical knowledge in the world isn't going to count for much if the players don't want to execute the plans plans because they hate their manager.

Obviously get the point and probably right, but pretty sure though it should be more like 20-30% tactics and 70-80% motivation? There have been so many cases of underdogs beating the better and even much better teams (both teams both motivated). Of course many factors like the better team underestimating the opposition, preparation, atmosphere, luck, etc., etc., all can play a part, but would think tactics isnt just 10%. Many many teams with lower player levels can beat teams with better players due to tactics.

Vlad the Impaler wrote:Who lost his last 3 games?

Ole

Art Morte wrote:The most important job of a manager is transfers. Tactics, motivation etc all come second. A tactically bad manager with better players is more often going to win against a tactically good manager with worse players. For example, the main reason Wenger had 20 years at Arsenal was because he was great at spotting talent and signing the right players.

Disagree strongly with that, both with your point and with the way you oversimplify.

It's painfully incorrect tbh.

Things will be better next season, when they bring back their wayward son, Jadon Sancho from Bundesliga's number 1 team

Sancho won't save united, Ole is a big mistake appointment.

Look, they are fcked

Mr Nick09 wrote:Ole is a big mistake appointment.

There was no alternative to giving Ole the job permanently, after how he did since taking over. It's the right thing to do.
They just shouldn't have announced it already, they should have kept it in the balance publicly.