2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil - Tracking Our Players

I don't know about selling him - when a fantastic player for you is out of form or showing signs of not working hard enough you don't need to immediately sell him, however what you could is ffs BENCH him now and then. Does that ever happen?

That's the thing I don't understand. How is he supposed to stay competitive when he has won everything and is in NO danger of being benched whatsoever no matter how he does?

I don't think he's being intentionally lazy (though I didn't see many of your games), in fact I don't think he's lazy or 'bad' at all, he's just lost some of his edge. But it's a fact your league went well without him, and there's no reason why he shouldn't be on the bench now and then like every other player too, especially coming back from injury etc., to get him fired up and to let him work his way back?

That's the problem of having a player that is bigger than your manager, and one who gets so ridiculously more wages than others that you feel to bench him would be a waste, which it is not.

I am not just talking about yesterday's game.I am talking about his season with us.
And do you think Messi will still want to win after he wins the WC,which is the only thing missing from his collection.

I agree about benching him.

"fight the entire game for these colors. Until then, you will sit. Prove your still ready to die for us, and you will start". Getting benched while Suarez and Neymar score would surely rattle him (in a good or in a bad way)

Yes agree he is the best defender there. Its because of him teams dont attack with full force. I thought Holland will rape Argentina. But seeing how scared they were, seeing Sneijder following Messi all the game i thought teams respect and fear Messi factor. Actually they do correct. Because if you give space then he can score some of his dribbling goals

Benching him means selling him in undirect way. He will not be more competetive because of it. He will do even worse. He became heavier and his body changed. And many many things changed

With his current form he is still best player. Believe me he does better than all of them. Nobody created 22 chances for the team in this world cup, so called runners and hard workers. No barca fan wants him on bench except some weird ones

BarrileteCosmico wrote:@ Dani: you can't replace Agüero with Higgy because he is Messi lazy. If Messi plays alongside only one other forward it has to be a runner who will generate spaces for him. Otherwise you get the first half of the Argentina Bosnia match.

@ Alex: you can't be serious about Messi being a cancer for the team like Ronaldinho was. His fitness may not be great but his attitude is still extremely competitive. Ronaldinho was sold because of his attitude and because he was deemed a bad influence over Messi.

Also considering just how terrible this board is, do you seriously trust them to reinvest the proceeds of Messi's sale properly?

Higuain is lazy himself BC, Im not sure what your getting at. Higuain was giving basically nothing defensively vs Holland.

If your talking moving off the ball forward, Aguero makes runs.

Ronaldinho attitude? As far as I know the only attitude he had was he wasnt training hard and went out drinking instead of training. I dont think that rubs off on anyone except the weak minded.

Ronaldinho was finished as a player and no longer had a use.

The Franchise wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:@ Dani: you can't replace Agüero with Higgy because he is Messi lazy. If Messi plays alongside only one other forward it has to be a runner who will generate spaces for him. Otherwise you get the first half of the Argentina Bosnia match.

@ Alex: you can't be serious about Messi being a cancer for the team like Ronaldinho was. His fitness may not be great but his attitude is still extremely competitive. Ronaldinho was sold because of his attitude and because he was deemed a bad influence over Messi.

Also considering just how terrible this board is, do you seriously trust them to reinvest the proceeds of Messi's sale properly?

Higuain is lazy himself BC, Im not sure what your getting at. Higuain was giving basically nothing defensively vs Holland.

If your talking moving off the ball forward, Aguero makes runs.

Ronaldinho attitude? As far as I know the only attitude he had was he wasnt training hard and went out drinking instead of training. I dont think that rubs off on anyone except the weak minded.

Ronaldinho was finished as a player and no longer had a use.

Yes but there were a few players at the time that took part in that partying lifestyle, including a young Messi that was deemed to be very susceptible to what his best friend Ronaldinho was doing.

About Aguero, at least for Argentina he does far less forward runs than Higuain. And in the two games that both Aguero and Higuain started you saw Higuain track back to help out defensively while Aguero stayed up. Granted Aguero was carrying an injury even then, but so was Higgy tbf.

Agree to disagree here BC.

Messi

Feel bad for Messi and Masch. But great win for Germany they deserved it.

On the match itself,great match.Generally finals are cagey affairs.But this one was very entertaining.I think Sabella made a mistake by switching to 4-3-3.As soon as he did,his wings became very exposed as none of the 3 forwards provided cover on the wing.
Germany doubled up on the fullback Rojo a lot and he was very vulnerable.Biglia would go over to cover but then it would leave the midfield free.
I expected a goal to come from the wing and ultimately it did.Only thing was I expected one from Rojo's flank.But it was Zabaleta who let in the cross.Should have had cover though.
Sabella made a huge tactical mistake by switching to 3 up top.

Higuain and Aguero were both disappointing. Aguero never really got going and Higuain missed a glorious chance.

"It's a sin countries like Brazil and Argentina use their talent so little," Cruyff is quoted as saying by The Mirror.

"For the good of football Germany go all the way. They are the only team of the four semi-finalists who are playing good football."

Taking Lavezzi off, was criminal. There is alot more I can say about the game, such as Higuain yet again missing a sitter when it matters most...but taking Lavezzi off was one of the more bizare changes I seen when you consider the importance of the game combined with Lavezzi being the best player on the pitch for the first 45 minutes in my eyes.

I am yet to hear he was injured so if anyone knows something I dont, then strike the comment.

Sabella said it was a tactical decision: "Lavezzi was having a great game, but we thought we should change our way of playing and be more offensive."

He was totally wrong, in my opinion.

They created the better chances in the first half, and in fact they created less overall after that change.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sabella said it was a tactical decision: "Lavezzi was having a great game, but we thought we should change our way of playing and be more offensive."

If Sabella wanted to be more offensive, why didn't he take off one of the three defenders in central midfield? Taking off Biglia or Perez would have made a whole world of difference, since neither got a single attacking bone in their bodies.

Agree with the Lavezzi sub for Aguero, just pure gambling by Sabella... didnt work out obviously....

We can take about this and that, but overall GErmany just deserve to win it more.

The main thing is Messi had he been the player he always was, Argentina probably would edge it over this better overal Germany team, but he wasnt, it needed a lot of luck for Argentina to win it...

Agree with the Lavezzi sub for Aguero, just pure gambling by Sabella... didnt work out obviously....

We can take about this and that, but overall GErmany just deserve to win it more.

The main thing is Messi had he been the player he always was, Argentina probably would edge it over this better overal Germany team, but he wasnt, it needed a lot of luck for Argentina to win it...

The Franchise wrote:He was totally wrong, in my opinion.

They created the better chances in the first half, and in fact they created less overall after that change.

don't disagree at all

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sabella said it was a tactical decision: "Lavezzi was having a great game, but we thought we should change our way of playing and be more offensive."

Why did he switch from a formation that was working BC?Did he explain?Why did change from a 4 in midfield to 3 in midfield and 3 forwards up top?Turned the tide slowly but surely in Germany's favor that move.Germany began doubling up on Rojo and most of their chances came from that side?
WHat was he thinking playing 3 forwards who have poor work rate against Germany of all teams?
Entire tourney he plays defensive and it works and in the final too it was working.Suddenly he switches to 3 genuine forwards up top who dont work hard.  

His tactics seem to me about inviting the fullbacks forward and then countering into that space.

However, he should of done that 50-50. By that meaning, Rojo will need help from someone because Lahm plays rightback and he is dangerous going forward. On the other side, it wouldnt matter, Howedes was scared to death of going past the ball, and for good reason, he isnt good with the ball nor a natural fullback (or even left footed, im not sure about this).

He could of easily pushed Lavezzi on, tell him to stay away from the midfield and dare Howedes to run past him. And if it then became a problem, Lavezzi has the work rate to cover.

That sub was such a definite move, which frankly shocked me and might of cost Argentina the game. They had a legit chance of winning if they kept things the same.

alexjanosik wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Sabella said it was a tactical decision: "Lavezzi was having a great game, but we thought we should change our way of playing and be more offensive."

Why did he switch from a formation that was working BC?Did he explain?Why did change from a 4 in midfield to 3 in midfield and 3 forwards up top?Turned the tide slowly but surely in Germany's favor that move.Germany began doubling up on Rojo and most of their chances came from that side?
WHat was he thinking playing 3 forwards who have poor work rate against Germany of all teams?
Entire tourney he plays defensive and it works and in the final too it was working.Suddenly he switches to 3 genuine forwards up top who dont work hard.  

He didn't really explain in depth but some local journalists speculate that he was trying to limit Schweinsteiger's influence by brining another player on to the middle - not that it worked because Aguero was barely fit and by FT he was as tired as players who had ran for the entire 90 minutes.

Overall just a phenomenal flop by Sabella. Worst than the Riquelme substitution in 2006 by far.

We still managed to geet 3 one on ones though, the title could've been ours had we finished our chances.

Mourinho making some of the same points people here have made:

"Messi sacrifized himself for the team, he wanted to win more than he wanted to be the best player of the tournament and played in zones that are not his favorite. You have to respect that. Not every player in this World Cup can say the same.

"It's not the same thing to play for a national team than it is for a club, if he had wanted to show how good he is he would have played behind Higuain waiting for a chance to change the game.

"I would like to know why Lavezzi was benched for the second half. In the first half Argentina played with four lines of four, with Enzo Perez closing in on Lahm and Lavezzi on the other side and going forward. Argentina was comfortable and Messi could just walk while the rest of the team was in a defensive phase, so that when they recovered the ball he could have the legs fresh to make a difference.

"The goal was clearly scored against a very tired team, they could not phase Schurlle nor the change of tempo on the wings, and after that they couldn't close in on the spaces. Clearly Garay, who in my opinion has been fantastic all competition, didn't have the energy to close in that space. And after that Gotze's finishing was fantastic."

http://www.marca.com/2014/07/14/futbol/mundial/argentina/1405362278.html

I thought the substitution was awful as well.

Even if we ignore tactics, Lavezzi was Argentina's most consistently dangerous person going forward (Messi the most dangerous when he actually got the ball, but it's not like he consistently got the ball, or at least balls in areas to be dangerous in). He was Argentina's best player in the first half.

Interesting comments from Mourinho.

Looks like Lavezzi was pretty tired after all:

https://mediacru.sh/Dtla92uCkH-6

Anyways Alvarez should've come in and the system should not have changed if this was the issue. It is rather unfortunate that Germany had an extra day of rest whereas Argentina had to go to ET against Holland. The Brazilian fans kept the Argentine team up til 4 am by making noises outside the hotel, but I guess stuff like this is why we always said Argentina would play the final as an away game.

The Franchise wrote:His tactics seem to me about inviting the fullbacks forward and then countering into that space.

However, he should of done that 50-50. By that meaning, Rojo will need help from someone because Lahm plays rightback and he is dangerous going forward. On the other side, it wouldnt matter, Howedes was scared to death of going past the ball, and for good reason, he isnt good with the ball nor a natural fullback (or even left footed, im not sure about this).

He could of easily pushed Lavezzi on, tell him to stay away from the midfield and dare Howedes to run past him. And if it then became a problem, Lavezzi has the work rate to cover.

That sub was such a definite move, which frankly shocked me and might of cost Argentina the game. They had a legit chance of winning if they kept things the same.

He doesnt have to attempt suicide(which it ultimately proved to be) to do that.For the simple reason that Lahm is going to go forward no matter what.he isnt to stay back.He is always going to attack.So there was always space to be exploited behind Lahm.
What you dont do is leave Rojo against Lahm and Muller.Even Ozil after the change of formation had a lot of impact down that flank.
Also it was clear that his plan wouldnt work anyway.Because Rojo was alone,he was scared to go forward after the change of formation.Granted he is not Roberto Carlos going forward but he can atleast provide an outlet,a person to pass back to.After the formation change he didnt go forward to provide an outlet.This meant that Aguero when he got the ball down that right flank of Germany was all alone and double teamed.He had no one to pass to.Rojo was too far back and Messi was too busy walking around the middle of the pitch.Aguero ineveitably came out second best and Germany ended up with the ball easily.
So his plan backfired big time.I might have to watch again but I think it was Schweinsteiger who covered Lahm.Often I saw him drop back to form a 3,which was a bit strange I thought.generally when a midfielder drops into the backline,he drops between the Cb;s who go wide.Schweisteiger instead went into the space vacated by Lahm.He would receive the ball there and instigate play from there.I would have to watch the game again to be sure on this.Correct me if I am wrong dani.

Point is Sabella messed up and his plan backfired big time,both offensively and more importantly defensively.Just left the 3 in midfield and the back four too much to do against a German side who towards the end of the match were in clearly better physical condition.