2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil - Tracking Our Players

It is incredibly worrying to think we see Cuadrado as the type of rightback we need.

So what do we make of Messi's World Cup so far? In the past 2 games he put in a lot more effort (tackles, tactical fouls) than he did for Barca the entire season. He obviously also had some decisive moments. But surely I'm not the only one slightly underwhelmed by his overall game? I thought he completely disappeared after Di Maria went off today for example. Higuain did what he should have done (that nutmeg dribble + shot at the bar). And then that chance at the end ... Guess he'll never score against Chelsea goalkeepers. He looks much slower than he used to be. Wonder if this is what he is now. His overall game highlights for me are his 360 turns and twists under pressure to retain the ball but that's about it.

How out of shape is Messi?
For a guy who has spent the entire season on vacation and is also walking around at the WC(while others are running non stop),he still doesnt seem to have the physical advantage at the end of games.
I mean that break at the end,I was expecting him to blast off and leave Witsel in the dirt.But Witsel almost caught up with him.
Another instance,after a sprint in the game,he was gasping for air.

What this means for us is that,no improvement is to be expected.
It seems this is how its going to be.Unless ofcourse Enrique whips him into shape which seems highly unlikely.

I think this is just what he is now. Still clearly capable of magic but lacking something in comparison to his very best days.

He works harder for Argentina than us, the last couple games especially.

But yes, about the same as you two. Anything to do with maximal sprinting, not there...but he skill retains all his skills.

Yeah he is working harder for Argentina.He was tackling and attempting to close down.
But he has definitely dropped a few yards of pace.Even in this game after an even start on a couple of occasions he was easily outpaced by the defender.Which shouldnt be the case given that he is the freshest player at the tournament.
Is it just me or does anyone else think he has dropped pace?

I don't think he dropped pace. I think his instinct to run has dropped. What I mean by that is that before he would just run before his team mates would even pass him the ball. He wanted to get in scoring positing and would do whatever it took to win the ball and retain and keep running. Now it seems like he stands...he sees the ball might be passed, THEN he starts sprinting towards the opening area to get the ball. Before it was the opposite. He just turned it down a notch as far as WANTING to have the ball at all costs imo. He also seems pretty much comfortable just roaming around the midfield; which he did all last season as well. He pretty much went from a false 9 to a true number 10. For periods he just drifted around behind Higuain; so I can see this is this is what Messi is naturally morphing into; distributing (and not doing much defensive work over all). Then signing Suarez might actually be a great idea since Messi would just play as his runner behind him.

Problem is, what about our midfield? For this to work we must have two great pivot type midfielders if we are to switch to a 4-2-3-1; surely Iniesta paired up with Busquets won't work. Rakatic or Rafinha due to work rate might actually be better partners with Busquets...leaving Iniesta where?! Would be a crime to just have Iniesta coming off the bench for Neymar or Messi. Xavi doesn't have the legs to play the double pivot either imo

I agree with both of you. 100% what windkick says is true, regarding his instinct to run. Cant say it any better myself.

But I also agree with Alex, even when at full speed...he isnt quite as fast.

As for Barca, my only guess for the formation would be exactly the same as Argentina's. With Neymar taking Aguero's role and Suarez taking Higuain's.

Rakitic being our version of Di Maria I can only guess but Iniesta isnt a deep lying passer so thats where the thing falls apart.





Something like this but Aguero (Neymar) left of Higuain (Suarez) and Di Maria (Rakitic) flipped sides and depth with Gago (Iniesta)

windkick wrote:Then signing Suarez might actually be a great idea since Messi would just play as his runner behind him.

Problem is, what about our midfield? For this to work we must have two great pivot type midfielders if we are to switch to a 4-2-3-1; surely Iniesta paired up with Busquets won't work. Rakatic or Rafinha due to work rate might actually be better partners with Busquets...leaving Iniesta where?! Would be a crime to just have Iniesta coming off the bench for Neymar or Messi. Xavi doesn't have the legs to play the double pivot either imo

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Something like this maybe? If that's how we'll line up then maybe signing cuadrado would make more sense. even though I've not been impressed by him even having watched all 5 of his games at the world cup and I think signing him for the rumored 37 million or signing Mathieu for 20 or marquinhos for 40 fkn million are all plain stupid moves but if we line up like this next season I would actually be happy as we have played this formation in previous season and it work wonders.

^If my memory serves correct didn't you guys play that exact same way under Pep?

Yes, it wasn't our weekly formation but pep would use it often, such as when we beat Madrid 3-1 in his last season. The last time I remember us using it was under the late Vilanova/Roura when we beat you guys 4-0 at the camp nou.

As far as the new CB does anyone agree that Ron Vlaar would be someone to look into? I've really only seen him for holland but he seems solid and probably wouldn't cost an arm and a leg

Nah, he looks good only because of this 3 CB system. He can just sweep and cover across instead of actually trying to follow runs and such.

Fußball wrote:So what do we make of Messi's World Cup so far? In the past 2 games he put in a lot more effort (tackles, tactical fouls) than he did for Barca the entire season. He obviously also had some decisive moments. But surely I'm not the only one slightly underwhelmed by his overall game? I thought he completely disappeared after Di Maria went off today for example. Higuain did what he should have done (that nutmeg dribble + shot at the bar). And then that chance at the end ... Guess he'll never score against Chelsea goalkeepers. He looks much slower than he used to be. Wonder if this is what he is now. His overall game highlights for me are his 360 turns and twists under pressure to retain the ball but that's about it.

I think the first half was very good.Even though he didnt score or assist,probably his best half of the tournament.That pass for Di Maria was sublime.A contender for pass of the tournament.
But faded badly in the second half and was very poor.He is just not aggressive enough.Like I said,woefully out of shape.Or who knows.Maybe he is saving himself for the SF and final.

kabarca wrote:

windkick wrote:Then signing Suarez might actually be a great idea since Messi would just play as his runner behind him.

Problem is, what about our midfield? For this to work we must have two great pivot type midfielders if we are to switch to a 4-2-3-1; surely Iniesta paired up with Busquets won't work. Rakatic or Rafinha due to work rate might actually be better partners with Busquets...leaving Iniesta where?! Would be a crime to just have Iniesta coming off the bench for Neymar or Messi. Xavi doesn't have the legs to play the double pivot either imo

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Something like this maybe? If that's how we'll line up then maybe signing cuadrado would make more sense. even though I've not been impressed by him even having watched all 5 of his games at the world cup and I think signing him for the rumored 37 million or signing Mathieu for 20 or marquinhos for 40 fkn million are all plain stupid moves but if we line up like this next season I would actually be happy as we have played this formation in previous season and it work wonders.

Come on..we all know Matheiu won't start; it will be useless Jordi Alba instead. If we had a tall LB that can play CB, like Matheiu then that would be a kick ass line up. Still not sure what the deal with Cuardado is but as of now it looks like Alves will stay

Man this Nerman thing absolutely blows. I gather it is 6 weeks of rest and then rehabilitation? Feel completely gutted for him.

About Messi, clearly saving himself for Barca  

I think tactically all teams have dealt with him efficiently. And I do mean literally all. Bosnia, Nigeria, Iran, Switzerland and Belgium all had a plan to stop him and it worked relatively well because Argentina does not have any midfielders running into the spaces left vacant by his double marking. Problem is he only needs a bit of space to make a difference - but I wouldn't say he has been able to play well yet.

Mascherano has been a complete beast, albeit in a position he will never play for us (since we're unlikely to play a double pivot).

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Man this Nerman thing absolutely blows. I gather it is 6 weeks of rest and then rehabilitation? Feel completely gutted for him.

About Messi, clearly saving himself for Barca  

I think tactically all teams have dealt with him efficiently. And I do mean literally all. Bosnia, Nigeria, Iran, Switzerland and Belgium all had a plan to stop him and it worked relatively well because Argentina does not have any midfielders running into the spaces left vacant by his double marking. Problem is he only needs a bit of space to make a difference - but I wouldn't say he has been able to play well yet.

Mascherano has been a complete beast, albeit in a position he will never play for us (since we're unlikely to play a double pivot).

That still doesnt explain him getting gassed after one sprint.Reminds me of Roberto Carlos at the WC 06.
No professional athlete should be getting gassed after one sprint.
And it still doesnt explain him coming off second best in every sprint for the ball.He was never lightning fast but still he was very quick and had insane acceleration.Both are missing now.

I didn't think Messi looked gassed at any point in the match. He is just picking and choosing when to explode. But I didn't see him looking spent. He actually did well at tracking back the 2nd half and help with defending and trying to close down to recover the ball the 2nd half when Argentina sat back. He also had allot of key passes that lead to chances (he leads the World Cup in chances created and dribbles). He is having a great tournament considering every single team he has faced has had a minimum of 2 to 3 people locked on him at all times. Even then he's found a way to set his team mates up or move away when he has too to bring the defense away from the rest of the Argentina attack. he's playing a really, really smart tournament imo. Is he going balls out like he used to during and before the Pep era? No he's not, but he's also taken a mediocre Argentina to the semis of the World Cup by practically being the Xaviestaessi all by himself.

Not our player but Robben  
What a World Cup he is having.Easily the best player of the tournament.Looks dangerous and incisive every time he touches the ball.Playing with intensity and aggression,has had a splendid splendid tournament.He is having the tournament Messi should be having.
Always admired him as a player and this tournament just made me like him even more.

I agree with everything you said 100%

Except I want to add I want to strangle the mofo everytime he acts like he got shot with a canon anytime anybody gets near him

Well yeah he exaggerates contact but I prefer to be mesmerized by his play instead.I still remember the 2004 Euro when he first came to prominence.Had a brilliant tournament and everyone who saw him then knew that he would be a special player.Unfortunately injuries ruined the early part of his career and didnt allow him to reach his full potential.
But he has made up for it in the past 3-4 years at Bayern where he has had a great renaissance.Now outshining the likes of Messi, Neymar,CR and all the rest at a WC.
Robben  

Messi most dribbles, chances created, I think same amount of goals and has more assists thus far in the World Cup. Neymar I think also has better numbers, all of them reached the semis. All 3 are carrying their team but in the groups Robben had RVP who was also on fire. As amazing as Robben has been lets not ignore what other players are also doing just as good (Also James, who also stepped up like a man this tournament)

Windkick Messi has scored 4 vs Robben's 3.

I agree that Robben has so far played better, although Messi has been more decisive, but has Robben done anything remotely close to this?

https://mediacru.sh/3rnAUP9CDEZ6

Robben isn't capable of such a thing. He has been very good though.

Worst flopper of the tournament however. He does it multiple times every single match. It's embarrassing. I admire his skill and ability, but his flopping and diving has been on another level to everyone else too.

Dont care for stats.I watch the games and base my judgement on that.Stats dont tell me that Robben has faced tougher opponents and tougher conditions.I mean the game against Mexico was played in brutal conditions.Robben put in an excellent performance in extreme conditions.If that was messi,he would be walking around the pitch.
Stats also dont tell me that in the 2 knockout games,Robben has been excellent while Messi has been poor.
Stats dont tell me that Robben has defended far better for his team while also being better offensively.Stats also dont tell me that Robben has played with more intensity and aggressiveness.
Stats also dont tell me that Robben has looked more dangerous every time he gets the ball.
And the most dribbles stat shows precisely why stats cant be blindly trusted.
Watching the games tells me that Robben has been a better and more dangerous dribbler than Messi.Neymar too has been a better dribbler than Messi.

No one is saying Robben isn't on fire...

...and by the way he dives you would think he is

Most chances created - Messi 19
Most throughballs - Messi 4
Most dribbles - Messi 29
Most MoM performances - Messi 4

Involved 7 out of 8 goals of Argentina, carried the most of his team of any player, being marked twice more than any other player. Yet still scored 4 goals, against most defenders, Bosnia 8 players below the ball, Iran 11 and Nigeria 11 players in the freekick.

Having the biggest pressure to perform of any player in history of the game, and he matching them like nothing, apparently not even giving his all.   

Insane fecking player. He truely is impossible.

I agree that Robben has dived well.